Equal Body Representation

[Powerboy]

This thread is full of sexism I'm sorry I started it.

Going over the thread, I don't see anyone saying anything sexist unless you count pointing out that the context of showing Thor's butt is clearly trying to be funny while showing a shot of Natasha's butt doesn't seem to have any intention of being funny.

This really just comes down to these scenes being decided mostly by hetero men.

And, yes, a more progressive thinking would be not to do that with anybody. It's just that there's a long history of doing that with women.

Yeah, I know. Says the guy with a picture of Powergirl showing her cleavage.,

[80sbaby]

This thread is full of sexism I'm sorry I started it.

You weren't complaining about sexism, though? Had you made a topic focused on the Thor butt shot being wrong, you'd have a better point. But you were saying if we see him naked, why can't we see women (or other genders) butts. There's a difference.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

I think the question was: why can't showing a female butt be played for laughs, instead of being a sexy thing?

[80sbaby]

I think the question was: why can't showing a female butt be played for laughs, instead of being a sexy thing?

And the answer is historical, societal context. Which was dismissed by the TC.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

And the answer is historical, societal context. Which was dismissed by the TC.

So the question becomes: how do we change that? How do we make it "OK" and "accepted" for a female-butt to be part of a joke?

Do we start by...just doing it? Do we wait 20 years more? 50 years? 100 years? Will it never be OK? Is that putting female butts on a pedestal after a certain point? Does it have to be done by a female-driven movie (writer, director, producers all female)?

Do we ignore the women actors that don't mind being nude in film?

Keep in mind, I'm not saying an MCU film should show a woman's derrière just because they showed Hulk/Thor's backside.

[j9ac9k]

So the question becomes: how do we change that? How do we make it "OK" and "accepted" for a female-butt to be part of a joke?

First we create a society where the power imbalance has been obliterated and women are no longer objectified - that's all.

( I personally don't think it's impossible to use a woman's butt in a joke, but there's a much higher level of difficulty that is most likely not worth attempting. (There might be a great joke using blackface, but I wouldn't put it in a movie) The upside of whatever joke you want to tell doesn't measure against the downside of adding to the damage or even just having the joke land poorly, because it's difficult to overcome the cultural context.)

[Starter Set]

What about non-binary butt?

Butts with one cheek?

[80sbaby]

First we create a society where the power imbalance has been obliterated and women are no longer objectified - that's all.

Pretty much this.

[Tofali]

So the question becomes: how do we change that? How do we make it "OK" and "accepted" for a female-butt to be part of a joke?

Do we start by...just doing it? Do we wait 20 years more? 50 years? 100 years? Will it never be OK? Is that putting female butts on a pedestal after a certain point? Does it have to be done by a female-driven movie (writer, director, producers all female)?

Do we ignore the women actors that don't mind being nude in film?

Keep in mind, I'm not saying an MCU film should show a woman's derrière just because they showed Hulk/Thor's backside.

Looks like it has to be a female-driven movie (writer, director, producers all female) for it to be teflon enough to escape from charges of sexism or the male gaze.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

First we create a society where the power imbalance has been obliterated and women are no longer objectified - that's all.

So until we’ve created this mythical society (I’m not of the opinion humanity will be able to completely eradicate physical objectification of what is deemed attractive; call me a pessimist, I don’t care), even other women can’t use their bodies to be the butt *cough* of a joke?

[j9ac9k]

So until we’ve created this mythical society (I’m not of the opinion humanity will be able to completely eradicate physical objectification of what is deemed attractive; call me a pessimist, I don’t care), even other women can’t use their bodies to be the butt *cough* of a joke?

Like I said in the other part of my post, of course they (or anyone) can, it's just simply more difficult to overcome cultural context. Not impossible, just more difficult.

It's interesting to think of anyone caring more about not being able to see women's butts than the actual problem of why that's not as funny.(I won't even get into the problematic nature of why it's funny to see a man's butt... )

[Starter Set]

I’m not of the opinion humanity will be able to completely eradicate physical objectification of what is deemed attractive; call me a pessimist, I don’t care

Of course not. I mean, you know at some point you have to accept some very basic realities about men and how good o'l nature made us.

If you hope for things like "male gaze" to ever go away for example, well, who knows right? But i wouldn't hold my breath.

All this psychological behavior has some deep roots and served our species well.

[Username taken]

Of course not. I mean, you know at some point you have to accept some very basic realities about men and how good o'l nature made us.

If you hope for things like "male gaze" to ever go away for example, well, who knows right? But i wouldn't hold my breath.

All this psychological behavior has some deep roots and served our species well.

I agree.

Some things are just the "way they are". The male gaze is a real thing and whether it's a good or bad thing is up for debate. The fact does remain that men are stimulated by what they see and women slightly less so. It's a biological scientific fact and there isn't really much I as a guy can do about this.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to do better but sometimes the discussions around these issues tend to veer into the unrealistic.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

Like I said in the other part of my post, of course they (or anyone) can, it's just simply more difficult to overcome cultural context. Not impossible, just more difficult.

It's interesting to think of anyone caring more about not being able to see women's butts than the actual problem of why that's not as funny.(I won't even get into the problematic nature of why it's funny to see a man's butt... )

I'm a gay male. I have no interest in seeing women's rear ends. Throw me a Thor-butt any day.

But I do think if:

1) the female actor is comfortable with it
2) the female actor was not pressured into it (casting couch situation)
3) and especially if the female actor encourages it

it's OK.

[80sbaby]

I'm a gay male. I have no interest in seeing women's rear ends. Throw me a Thor-butt any day.

But I do think if:

1) the female actor is comfortable with it
2) the female actor was not pressured into it (casting couch situation)
3) and especially if the female actor encourages it

it's OK.

Well there's this and also the presentation/execution. For example, if the camera focuses on Black Widow's butt as she's doing some action, that could be seen as wrong. However, if a woman is caught in a awkward situation where she's naked and it's part of a gag then it'll likely be seen as a lot less offensive and given a pass.