Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 47
  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    9,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneySpider View Post
    If the purpose of this type of approach to certain characters is to draw them into collecting regular comics of the characters or regular appearances of certain characters in current DC comics, then those people might be confused by the different origin stories and wonder why Mari is from Zambesi in the regular DC Comics but has no connection to Zambesi whatsoever in this adaptation. Especially when there have been sort of recent media adaptations (the Vixen web series and "Legends of Tomorrow") where Zambesi was a huge part of Vixen's story.
    They're not gonna start reading monthly comic. At least not most of them. This is a wholly different group of readers who reads from the convenience of a smartphone, who can choose to pay or wait for a free read. That's already so much more convenient than preordering from LCS or even Midtown, even more than Comixology where you do have to pay. Only a select few will actually make the leap to comics. Kinda like TV series watcher.

    It's best to do this, do something different that actually fit this audience and environment, rather than asking them to jump into a wholly different medium and different method of following stories, rather than forcing it into the mainline comics where the cuteness doesn't fit the character. (side-eyeing Batgirl of Burnside and DC You Starfire)

    By the way, some of the comments gave an idea. Bruce is only visiting, so if they want to use Batman as a series regular, they can use Jace, who's actually in NYC. If they want to follow that.

    ---

    Themysciran Yogurt! Cute

    ---

    It's kinda funny that Beast Boy is framed as the mystery weirdo guy and not because he's glowing green. Superheroes are not uncommon, but still, Mari has no reaction to his looks the way she did to Batman, so maybe that's just for the readers. Comments wonder if he's suspecting her while also planning to get her to join Titans. Since in this, they're the same age.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 05-28-2022 at 04:37 AM.

  2. #17
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    12,785

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneySpider View Post
    If the purpose of this type of approach to certain characters is to draw them into collecting regular comics of the characters or regular appearances of certain characters in current DC comics, then those people might be confused by the different origin stories and wonder why Mari is from Zambesi in the regular DC Comics but has no connection to Zambesi whatsoever in this adaptation. Especially when there have been sort of recent media adaptations (the Vixen web series and "Legends of Tomorrow") where Zambesi was a huge part of Vixen's story.
    What books does Vixen have???

    As with movies and tv shows-this type of stuff can find usage for folks like Vixen, Karen, Cyborg and so on UNLIKE the comics that act like they don't exist. Because the comic side panders to a group that will scream these guys are killing comics or don't deserve to be in comics or are background fodder or stuck as props in badly done books.

    How confused are folks going to be when we have a current Spider-Man named Peter pretty much pretending to be Miles Morales in live action movies?

    Static is on his 4th origin-1993, Static Shock, Young Justice and Vita series.

    Do we even need to discuss Superman??? Every single Marvel movie that does not reflect the original origins?

  3. #18
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    17,049

    Default

    I just view the Webtoons as equivalent to the YA books, which is what they kinda are. Long as they’re creating awareness of Vixen amongst a new audience then I’m content with them doing what they want with the character.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  4. #19
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    86,972

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I just view the Webtoons as equivalent to the YA books, which is what they kinda are. Long as they’re creating awareness of Vixen amongst a new audience then I’m content with them doing what they want with the character.
    That is definitely a very YA Deadshot .

  5. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I just view the Webtoons as equivalent to the YA books, which is what they kinda are. Long as they’re creating awareness of Vixen amongst a new audience then I’m content with them doing what they want with the character.
    Seconded.

    Also this is an AU, it's not pretending to be definitive canon and it's very light hearted and playful in tone even if serious topics are touched upon. Hence why I give it more leeway but I understand where some fans are coming from in wanting Vixen to maintain her African roots.

    The CBR Community Guidelines & Rules
    | Report but also PM me directly

  6. #21
    Amazing Member
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Posts
    42

    Default

    In regards to changing Vixen's background, I'm opposed to it because it isn't faithful to the character. And I'm not saying this out of a strong dedication to Vixen, but out of a general principle I feel toward intellectual property.

    if DC wanted a different character that they feel is more suited to the Webtoon audience, they should have made a different character. And if they can't do that, that's a whole other problem we should be discussing (and it is, by the way).

    I'm generally against the practice of muddling your brands to the point that have all kinds of diverging and opposing takes. People may feel there is a strength in that--and maybe there is somewhere--but I also feel it's a large reason why people seldom convert to comics, as it undermines them. Now we take it as a foregone conclusion that people will simply not read the comics. This defeatist acceptance, while not misplaced (because it's largely true at this point), is not a good or healthy outlook for comics.

    Why would people convert when the material they see in comics is wildly divergent from what they were exposed to with the same name!? Interestingly, when we look at big comic success stories like Batman, X-Men, and Walking Dead, which HAVE seen a lot of conversion, relatively speaking, the material people generally see isn't as muddled and confusing as it is for, say, Green Lantern. When people buy a Batman comics, they generally expect to see Bruce Wayne, Alfred, Gotham, Gordon, and Robin, and they generally get that, and we see the strength of Batman's brand. I think the strength is largely due to that. People generally get what they expect. They get what they want. They're more or less happy.

    Interestingly, I hardly ever see this type of...divergence with manga or Webtoon comics. For example, I never see the Big 2 direct market version of One Piece, and in it, Luffy is either not present, or is an entirely different guy, or is black, or something like that. I never see the direct market western version of Pokemon where Ash is a woman. And it's good that we don't because people expect to see One Piece how they expect to see it (I guess we get some changes in localization at times, but I don't think that's comparable with this. That's like a different issue). Yet, with these DC Comic characters, they're all over the place and expectations for them are often all over the place, and I don't see that as good, because it causes disappointment when people don't get what they expect.

    So, I don't know how much this change will affect Vixen. But in practice, that sort of thing is generally not something I support.
    We can act like, "Oh...it's just a Webtoon comic, who cares," but when that type of attitude becomes the policy for how you handle your characters, I think it damages them in the long run to the point where it contributes a lot to people not wanting to read comics (though, yes, there are other really big factors for that).

  7. #22
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    8,054

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyber View Post
    Interestingly, I hardly ever see this type of...divergence with manga or Webtoon comics.
    Manga is hard to compare with DC/Marvel comics, since you usually have one story that is supposed to end at some point (even if it can be in some cases a pretty long one) written by one writer.

    While in comics it, even if you ignore all the reboots and retcons, you had a lot of different writers, and big changes in writing and art style over the years.


    I think the most important thing with the YA and Webtoons stuff is that the characters are still recognizable and that their personality is not drastically different, not sure if that's the case here...
    Last edited by Aahz; 05-29-2022 at 01:28 PM.

  8. #23
    Amazing Member
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Manga is hard to compare with DC/Marvel comics, since you usually have one story that is supposed to end at some point (even if it can be in some cases a pretty long one) written by one writer.

    While in comics it, even if you ignore all the reboots and retcons, you had a lot of different writers, and big changes in writing and art style over the years.


    I think the most important thing with the YA and Webtoons stuff is that the characters are still recognizable and that their personality is not drastically different, not sure if that's the case here...
    That certainly is a factor, and it makes sense, but when we look at the biggest characters in comics, like Peter Parker, Professor X, and so on, they're generally very recognizable across media and their stories and characters are usually consistently respected. Superman might have had some early growing pains by going through orphanages and having his mom's name changed, but once they got his origin down pat, it more or less stayed the same with relatively inconsequential diverges here and there.

    Changes like what Vixen has experienced here fundamentally alters who Vixen is. She is now from a completely different culture with a different background. Can you even be the same person when something that fundamental is changed? Like, if I was born and raised in China, somehow I doubt I'd have the same values, worldview, and perspective I have now.

    I think something like this dilutes a character, especially one like Vixen that doesn't have a very strongly established identity, to where people would know these changes are a divergence and not the norm for her. Kinda' like how people know Teen Titans Go is something of a parody. And even then, the characters are recognizable and themselves, with their backgrounds intact. Same with Lego Batman.

    I don't want to put thoughts in the head of the author, but I'm guessing this may have been done because the author might be American and Webtoon might not have a large African readership, so perhaps the feeling was either the author or audiences wouldn't relate to Vixen as she was. In which case, again, I would suggest making another character or using another character that might fit their preferences more (if they are after an American black female, they already have Bumblebee, for example).

    Again, I don't want to die on the hill of Vixen being African, because this isolated issue doesn't matter that much to me, but when you take a macro view of this kind of thing, I think it dilutes characters and causes confusion and conflict, especially with less established characters like Vixen.

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,757

    Default

    I read the first two issues and LOVED them. Very fun, very origin story. Definitely a good way to draw new people into the character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyber View Post
    In regards to changing Vixen's background, I'm opposed to it because it isn't faithful to the character. And I'm not saying this out of a strong dedication to Vixen, but out of a general principle I feel toward intellectual property.

    if DC wanted a different character that they feel is more suited to the Webtoon audience, they should have made a different character. And if they can't do that, that's a whole other problem we should be discussing (and it is, by the way).
    Nothing they did in this would warrant a different character. It's still very true to Vixen. She still has ties to Africa, her growing up in America doesn't change who she is.
    Last edited by Primal Slayer; 05-29-2022 at 02:41 PM.

  10. #25
    Amazing Member
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    I read the first two issues and LOVED them. Very fun, very origin story. Definitely a good way to draw new people into the character.



    Nothing they did in this would warrant a different character. It's still very true to Vixen. She still has ties to Africa, her growing up in America doesn't change who she is.
    Okay. Then I wonder why they didn't just stay more accurate to her character if it makes no difference. Why bother making an arbitrary change like that?
    See, it goes the other way, too.

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,757

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyber View Post
    Okay. Then I wonder why they didn't just stay more accurate to her character if it makes no difference. Why bother making an arbitrary change like that?
    See, it goes the other way, too.
    Not really. I said nothing they did warranted a different character. Comic characters have their origins revised all the time, this is nothing different.

  12. #27
    Amazing Member
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    Not really. I said nothing they did warranted a different character. Comic characters have their origins revised all the time, this is nothing different.
    I recall reading some of a Vixen mini series and her being an African native who grew up there was actually very important to her character, to the point where I don't even think you could have done the story if that facet of her was changed. At least not without MAJOR alterations. Thus, from my perspective, that does make a difference.

    That said, it does seem that whenever she gets spotlight lately as a lead, the people behind the scenes seem to want to take her away from that to a degree. If I recall correctly, her Arrowverse series version was adopted by Americans at a very young age. These are signs of a character who isn't that well established. While there are common themes and threads, her origins are consistently conflicting and all over the place.
    I don't really think that's...good...but *shrug* okay.

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    8,054

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    Nothing they did in this would warrant a different character. It's still very true to Vixen. She still has ties to Africa, her growing up in America doesn't change who she is.
    I might remember it wrong, but didn't the comicbook version of Vixen also immigrate to the US at a pretty young age?

  14. #29

    Default

    This webcomic is fun, she is americanized but she's from a fictional country so it's not a big deal. She just seems more like an american diasporan than a fresh off the boat immigrant.
    december 21st has passed where are my superpowers?

  15. #30
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    86,972

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OopsIdiditagain View Post
    This webcomic is fun, she is americanized but she's from a fictional country so it's not a big deal. She just seems more like an american diasporan than a fresh off the boat immigrant.
    I'm so used to mature, adult, Mari McCabe that it feels weird reading teenage, rookie, Mari Jiwe.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •