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  1. #1
    Fantastic Member
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    Default MCU Scarlet Witch (Being Reasonable) vs. MCU Captain Marvel

    MCU Scarlet Witch (Being Reasonable) vs. MCU Captain Marvel. Who wins?

  2. #2
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    I think Carol still wins due to blitz, actually.

  3. #3
    The Revan.....lives! Oswin's Avatar
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    How fast is captain marvels reaction speed/combat speed? Would we say she is on par with Cavill Supes? no right?

    What about wonderwoman? would she dance around her? would they be similiar? slower perhaps?

    In all her scenes i can only see her flying fast, she never utilizes this speed in fighting or combat ever.

    Sw has shown multiple times to be fast enough to atleast react to fast objects/people, and that's all SW really needs to wreck Carol's day.

  4. #4
    The Revan.....lives! Oswin's Avatar
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    To elaborate..

    Travel speed is not always the same as Combat / reaction speed.
    Specially since we have proof on the particular character in question which is the case.

    On the top of my head Supes has these reaction speed/ combat feats:

    Trivially dancing around Steppenwolf
    Able to see the Flash run at super speed, and react to him and nearly able to fight him evenly.

    Wonder woman has:

    Hits a guy , and as he flies to the other side of the room dashes towards him and hits him again.
    Blocking individual bullets from an assault rifle while even moving on her knees.

    Captain marvel has NONE such feats, all she has is “Let me charge up abit and now I have interstellar flight”. She does not fight with interstellar speed, nor has she ever managed to instantly go at that speed starting from 0.
    During her recon of the planet thanos was on , she wasn’t flying fast at all at the start, yet eventually she was fast enough to…SCOUT A WHOLE PLANET TO SEE WHAT DEFENSES IT HAS AND HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE ON IT IN A COUPLE OF MINUTES!!?? If she could fight like that she would have run circles around supes.
    I believe carol could snipe Scarlet witch , sw not knowing she is coming and her basically ramping up her speed to act like a interstellar bullet, but she simply cannot do that instantly, nor can she fight like that because she has never shown she can fight like that.
    Supes and WW also have fights where they don’t want to use their speed, but atleast they show us they COULD.

    Scarlet witch by the way has reacted to:

    Her speedster son, grabbing her by his arm as he was zipping around.
    Alternate CM, easily shielding against her initial beam attack.

  5. #5
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    The "reacting to her speedster son" is enough that she's vastly too fast for Wonder Woman, for example. That may not be fast enough to deal with Supes (I argued in that direction, that Supes could beat her in another thread) but it's ridiculously too fast for Wondy, and by extention, the slower-reaction-speed Captain Marvel.

    There's also the fact that Wanda is ridiculously hard to put down permanently, though there, CM hits pretty hard and might be able to get a 10-count or a kill. She just doesn't have the chance to do that here, as Wanda is stronger, can turn off her powers, can mind-whammy her, and can do all of this while at the very least stalemating her in a beam battle.

    Now, we do have to consider what "being reasonable" means, because if it just means that she doesn't fight as hard as she can, well, then Aunt May can potentially beat her, and this is a pretty valueless rumble.
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  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, Wonder Woman was able to react to Flash *just* enough to be able to close her hand around the hilt of her sword when he nudged it into that position, while he was still in "The World Stands Still" mode.

  7. #7
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    For what it's worth, Wonder Woman was able to react to Flash *just* enough to be able to close her hand around the hilt of her sword when he nudged it into that position, while he was still in "The World Stands Still" mode.
    She didn't react at all. That scene is massively overstated for her. She's a very high end bullet timer, thanks to the "whip a bullet out of the air with my magic rope" scene. But that's it.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  8. #8
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    She didn't react at all. That scene is massively overstated for her. She's a very high end bullet timer, thanks to the "whip a bullet out of the air with my magic rope" scene. But that's it.
    She absolutely reacted, in that she was able to perceive that Flash had pushed her sword into her palm and then close her hand around the hilt while Flash was still in blitz mode. It won't help her in a fight against him and was significantly less impressive than Superman's performance against Flash, but it's a nebulously impressive feat in its own right.

  9. #9
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    She absolutely reacted, in that she was able to perceive that Flash had pushed her sword into her palm and then close her hand around the hilt while Flash was still in blitz mode. It won't help her in a fight against him and was significantly less impressive than Superman's performance against Flash, but it's a nebulously impressive feat in its own right.
    No man, her eyes didn't react, no part of her other than the autonomic grasping action of something hitting your palm makes you grab it happened. It's a gross oversell. Also, we have no actual idea how fast Flash was moving at that point. It's simply not a great feat for her and doesn't move the needle on what she's capable of. Because if you are trying to say that she's fast enough to react to Flash when he's Flash-ing, well, that would be massively beyond anything else she has shown.

    Superman very clearly reacts to Flash, shocking Flash completely. Flash thinks he's too fast to perceive there, and he is to everyone except Clark. Clark turns his head and then starts attacking, both of them moving too fast for everyone else to perceive. Clark seems somewhat slower than Barry, but not so slow as to be a statue.

    Diana... doesn't do any of that. She doesn't turn her head, doesn't move her eyes, doesn't give any impression at all that she can see Barry in the slightest. She never does in any scene. It's just waaaaaaay too fast for her, and that's pretty consistent for her presentation.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  10. #10

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    Can someone link the moment where Wanda reacts to her speedster "son"? I would like to refresh my memory.

    For what its worth, I don't really think WW reacted all that much to Flash when he pushed the sword. Too nebulous and certainly she couldn't perceive him or Supes at speed later
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  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Galerion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Can someone link the moment where Wanda reacts to her speedster "son"? I would like to refresh my memory.

    For what its worth, I don't really think WW reacted all that much to Flash when he pushed the sword. Too nebulous and certainly she couldn't perceive him or Supes at speed later


    2:15
    "This is me being reasonable"

  12. #12
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    She holds out her hand and he runs into it. O_o

    I'm pretty iffy on that being anything but PIS, myself. Kind of like Spiderman sticking out his arm and Quicksilver running into it, which has happened in comics*. The only potential for 'reacting' for him that I see here is that she somehow knows where he's going to be (and for whatever reason he lets her grab his arm), especially given that she sticks out her arm before he's running past her.

    Sure, she has to close her hand around his arm, but then we have a discussion above about 'the automatic grasping of something hitting your hand' etc.

    The entire scene feels like a bucketload of PIS (and possibly SMvsFL to boot; Wanda have ANY other speedfeats on this level?).

    * aka the usual speedster PIS.
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 05-31-2022 at 04:18 AM.
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  13. #13
    The Revan.....lives! Oswin's Avatar
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    She has shown short burst speeds aswell.

    4:35

    https://youtu.be/V8raFxVLeGw

    She also had a similiar move in the latest movie.

  14. #14
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Sadly, for some reason I can't see that movie - my work blocks it (despite me accessing imbedded videos, go figure). Will have a look tonight.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  15. #15
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    In age of Ultron, so multiple explicit powerups ago, she had some weird speed burst stuff to get close to people and do mind whammies, and the to escape.

    She had some similar kind of speed-step scene in MoM as well.

    In WandaVision, in addition to catching her son, ISTR she was watching Pietro and the boys mess stuff up on Halloween, when they were invisible to everyone else thanks to speed.

    Plus, she's a reality warper, it's very much not against said powerset to have her just wish for some extra powers. She accidentally gave Photon her powers at the boundary of her reality warp in WandaVision. She created a fully functional Vision (with powers), created her sons (with powers, including speed), created her brother (with powers, notably, super speed) in WandaVision. Creating powers is definitely a thing she can do.

    She also never gets "outsped" from WandaVision on. She reacts quickly to Strange, Kamar Taj wizards, her son, her brother, Vison, Captain Carter and Captain Marvel. Reed tries to stretch towards her, she easily catches that and drops him like a bad habit.

    None of that means it's NOT just PIS or SvH, either. As always with characters with limited or inconclusive feats, mileage varies a ton.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

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