MCU Scarlet Witch (Being Reasonable) vs. MCU Captain Marvel

[Sharpandpointies]

In age of Ultron, so multiple explicit powerups ago, she had some weird speed burst stuff to get close to people and do mind whammies, and the to escape.

She had some similar kind of speed-step scene in MoM as well.

I'd like to see those. Got them?

[big_adventure]

I'd like to see those. Got them?

Looking for it quickly, I couldn't find a decent clip.

At 10m30 of Age of Ultron, she kind of zip steps right behind Tony, then mindwhammies him, and kind of zip steps away. Nebulous. Clearly jerky, faster than human movement, but still nebulous.

At 48m09, Ultron says "it's time for some mind games."

She mindscrews Thor at about 48m30, but nothing flashy about that, she just steps out from behind a wall.

Quicksilver knocks Cap down at 48m50, she kind appears instantly by his face, and does him. Nebulous.

At 48m58, she sort of appears behind Nat and whammies her, but it doesn't really show exactly how she got there - nebulous.

At 49m11, she appears behind Hawkeye at, hell, slower than normal human speed and gets a shock arrow stuck to her forehead for her troubles.

At 52m10, she tells her brother that she wants to finish the plan, sees Banner by the quinjet across a field, he sees her, and the next time we see Banner around 52h45, he's already whammied and is Hulked and running towards the city where he fights Tony.

That's the extent of those feats - I kind of remembered them as better than that, though I don't know why. Only the one with Stark was pretty clearly burst stepping or whatever. Arguably there was a bit of a flash step to get to Cap, and to suddenly be at inches behind Nat range, but it's not incredibly clear. This was obviously 4 explicit upgrades ago plus a ton of training.

Soooooo... not really that great.

I'll have to see MoM again to get that straight.

[big_adventure]

And one more... in AoA, just before she whammies Stark, she knocks Cap down some stairs. She then kind of flash steps backwards, through a door, and shuts the door behind herself.

Here's a clip with a bunch of the scenes mentioned above. Notably, the Cap thing from this post is at about 1m, and the Stark clip is around 1m20.



None of this stuff is amazing or definitive. Just a bit of corroboration to her doing some slight speed stuff 4 massive upgrades ago.

[Oswin]

the one i linked orignally is a speed burst, and she does it when chasing america and strange in MoM , though it's played as a jumpscare.

i still hold by the general consensus that supes is too quick, but she should be able to react easily enough to a CM at 100 yards, who herself basically has no quick react/combat speed feats.

[big_adventure]

the one i linked orignally is a speed burst, and she does it when chasing america and strange in MoM , though it's played as a jumpscare.

i still hold by the general consensus that supes is too quick, but she should be able to react easily enough to a CM at 100 yards, who herself basically has no quick react/combat speed feats.

That's pretty much my take. Supes is too quick for her, but I'd say that even bullet timers or diet coke speedsters would have issues blitzing Wanda - she seems capable of bringing stupid amounts of power to bear stupidly quickly.

[Sharpandpointies]

Found a movie myself, not great. I caught one image when she's retreating from Cap and closing a door where the camera-work gets weird and stuttery. Not sure what they're trying to show there; it's faster than normal, but it's also...not exactly superspeed or anything. Certainly nothing that indicates she can just reach out and grab someone running at full-on superspeed.

I'd be curious to see if all of that was just abandoned for the character, in later movies - if it was something of an attempt to make her 'creepy' when she was a villain. Whatever the case, what I saw doesn't exactly hold up the 'grab superspeedster' kind of speed she'd need, especially since the 'grab superspeedster' was her basically sticking out a hand and having her son run into it.

One can argue at that point that she's reality warping to grab him, but that's not speed, that's 'forcing reality to have him run into her hand and she grabs him'.

Not saying she doesn't have feats that might hold that feat for speed (as bad as it looks), but I haven't seen it yet (and don't recall). And comparative to the stuff that has been shown so far in this thread, the business with her son looks like a nice mixture of PIS and SMvsFL.

[Sharpandpointies]

*watches video* Thanks for that.

There's definitely SOME weirdness there with her speed and movement, so...yes? To that kind of nebulous, possibly approaching CBPH speed (because frankly, that's maybe not even CBPH).

Edit: I guess there's some argument that it approaches or matches comic book peak human - she's basically a blur when she zips away from Tony. For me, that would be an acceptable basis for her having somewhere around CBPH speed. The walking stuff is hard to judge. I mean, she's...walking faster?

Honestly looks more like using some kind of reality warping or magic to 'go faster'. Like time control or the like.

[big_adventure]

*watches video* Thanks for that.

There's definitely SOME weirdness there with her speed and movement, so...yes? To that kind of nebulous, possibly approaching CBPH speed (because frankly, that's maybe not even CBPH).

Edit: I guess there's some argument that it approaches or matches comic book peak human - she's basically a blur when she zips away from Tony. For me, that would be an acceptable basis for her having somewhere around CBPH speed. The walking stuff is hard to judge. I mean, she's...walking faster?

Honestly looks more like using some kind of reality warping or magic to 'go faster'. Like time control or the like.

Yeah it's... weird. Just like Agent Hill said.

Now, in a non-pure-blitz situation, I'd frankly be fine with her giving herself superspeed up to at least Quicksilver / Billy / Vision levels, since she gave that to all of them. She's a reality warper and can do a lot of crazy crap. Here, given that CM doesn't have particularly fast reaction speed, Wanda shouldn't have a problem winning without such shenanigans.

[Galerion]

Looking for it quickly, I couldn't find a decent clip.

At 10m30 of Age of Ultron, she kind of zip steps right behind Tony, then mindwhammies him, and kind of zip steps away. Nebulous. Clearly jerky, faster than human movement, but still nebulous.

At 48m09, Ultron says "it's time for some mind games."

She mindscrews Thor at about 48m30, but nothing flashy about that, she just steps out from behind a wall.

Quicksilver knocks Cap down at 48m50, she kind appears instantly by his face, and does him. Nebulous.

At 48m58, she sort of appears behind Nat and whammies her, but it doesn't really show exactly how she got there - nebulous.

At 49m11, she appears behind Hawkeye at, hell, slower than normal human speed and gets a shock arrow stuck to her forehead for her troubles.

At 52m10, she tells her brother that she wants to finish the plan, sees Banner by the quinjet across a field, he sees her, and the next time we see Banner around 52h45, he's already whammied and is Hulked and running towards the city where he fights Tony.

That's the extent of those feats - I kind of remembered them as better than that, though I don't know why. Only the one with Stark was pretty clearly burst stepping or whatever. Arguably there was a bit of a flash step to get to Cap, and to suddenly be at inches behind Nat range, but it's not incredibly clear. This was obviously 4 explicit upgrades ago plus a ton of training.

Soooooo... not really that great.

I'll have to see MoM again to get that straight.

At 4:33 you another example of it along with another ability that is as far as I know only seen here. The way this scene plays out it's hard to tell if it's invisibility or teleportation though.

[Username taken]

At 4:33 you another example of it along with another ability that is as far as I know only seen here. The way this scene plays out it's hard to tell if it's invisibility or teleportation though.

What Wanda did to Agatha was pretty horrifying when you really think about it.

[Galerion]

What Wanda did to Agatha was pretty horrifying when you really think about it.

You mean turning her into the "nosy neighbor"?

[Sharpandpointies]

Now that I can see all of this, she definitely keeps the sort of 'stutter-movement' thing.

[The Arbiter]

Neither the problematic scene of her catching her son nor the horror movement speed scenes suggest she is remotely on the level of a high-end bullet timer for my money. Not that it's nothing mind you. She is quicker than I suspected.

Definitely more than enough speed to take an early edge over CM. And once that edge is established, Carol is just playing the "how long can I NOT die" game.

[Oswin]

sort of off-topic... don't you guys find it very unsetttling that in the mcu it's now established that if you dream your actually looking through the eyes of one of your varients from another universe? so every fugged up dream you had was actually real. i am a spider-man, i am also a reality warper in another universe.

every nightmare i had was reality for one of me

[big_adventure]

sort of off-topic... don't you guys find it very unsetttling that in the mcu it's now established that if you dream your actually looking through the eyes of one of your varients from another universe? so every fugged up dream you had was actually real. i am a spider-man, i am also a reality warper in another universe.

every nightmare i had was reality for one of me

It's not actually established. It's theorized, but not proven.

Also, I hate to break this to you, but you don't live in the MCU.