Dan Slott Pushed For A Spider-Man/Doctor Who Crossover And Was Told 'No'

[Matt Rat]

So by extension Kang? Well, I guess that fits .

Kang and Immortus taking each other out Master/Missy style.

[Alan2099]

There's been a lot of Doctor Who references in Marvel going back to at least the 80s I think.

Hank Pym briefly wore an outfit resembling the Fourth Doctor, and I think faced some Dalek parodies to boot.

Excalibur featured a ton of references as well.

Paul Cornell also has written a ton of Doctor Who stuff. Alan Moore did do some comics as well.

Loki as he's written now has some similarities with the Doctor (and a bit of the Master).


Karen Gillian of course had Doctor Who companion Amy Pond as her breakout role before getting Nebula in the MCU...Andrew Garfield also had a small role in one of the Dalek stories.

There's also Professor Gamble.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/jagamble.htm

[WebLurker]

I really don't get the logic to a Spider-Man/Doctor Who crossover. It does sound like a Slott idea (the man seems to love "wouldn't it be cool if...?" story ideas), but, unlike that Star Trek/Doctor Who crossover comic, there's nothing in the two properties that would offer a good story hook.

[Dan Slott]

I really don't get the logic to a Spider-Man/Doctor Who crossover. It does sound like a Slott idea (the man seems to love "wouldn't it be cool if...?" story ideas), but, unlike that Star Trek/Doctor Who crossover comic, there's nothing in the two properties that would offer a good story hook.

That's looking at it from a Spider-Man side.

From the Doctor Who side, the Doctor has had adventures with Agatha Christie, Vincent van Gogh, and Robin Hood.
The Doctor loves having adventures with historical figures.
Think of Spidey as one of the most colorful characters in all of history, and that's your "in" from the Doctor side of things.

As for the hook of each story (it would've been a 5 issue mini), those are things you'd have to hear in each story title/pitch/synopsis.
I walked people from BBC Worldwide and DW through the beats of each story-- and each one has a very good Doctor Who/Spider-Man "hook", meshing the worlds/character/properties of each character very well-- as well as how we would have had Spider-Man/Peter Parker and the Doctor would work together in each adventure. And the BBC loved it.

End of the day, if you're going to have the Doctor interact with a world of super heroes, why not have him interact with the greatest super hero of all-time?

I get the appeal of marrying the Sci-Fi property with another Sci-Fi property. Like having the Doctor interact with the Fantastic Four. Or have him save a planet that's about to be devoured by Galactus. But that doesn't gibe with what makes the Doctor fun. That's like having a peanut butter and peanut butter sandwich. You want the jelly.
It'd be way more fun to have the Doctor travel back in time and interact with Indiana Jones as opposed to having him go to a wacky space bar/Cantina and interact with Han Solo. The Doctor can *already* do something like that.

[Jwyatt]

Well, then he basically wrote his Silver Surfer as a tribute to Doctor Who, so I guess he got it in there...although I don't think he would've written Spidey as a good companion.

Morlun as The Master? Yeah, no .

I've never liked Slott's takes on Marvel heroes. I'd imagine 'Spidey as companion' with too much 'old Parker luck' buffoonery until Spidey needs to use his powers in a climax. The Reckoning War has been a sad read. Everything has been obvious, no sense of tension or stakes. No reader cares that the moon was destroyed because that will be fixed before there's any aftermath. No one was surprised that there was more to the VHS tape to show Uatu was right. The Reed-Ben fight to death was poorly constructed and undid the 'prophecy' as expected. In a Dr Who/Spidey crossover, there would probably be fanservice disguised as 'big moments' that flop as badly as the Reckoning War's big moments.

[WebLurker]

That's looking at it from a Spider-Man side.

I would argue that if it doesn't work from that side, then it's time to consider whether the idea should be pursued in the first place.

From the Doctor Who side, the Doctor has had adventures with Agatha Christie, Vincent van Gogh, and Robin Hood.
The Doctor loves having adventures with historical figures.
Think of Spidey as one of the most colorful characters in all of history, and that's your "in" from the Doctor side of things.

Confession: with the rare exception, like the van Gogh episode, I kinda feel that that gimmick never really worked as well as the BBC wanted it, too, or at the very least it never went deeper than: "isn't it cool to see this random person getting sucked into this crazy adventure with this guy who acts like a loon?" Course, I never really got why Doctor Who was that great in the first place, so I'm not the person to ask about it, but still.

As for the hook of each story (it would've been a 5 issue mini), those are things you'd have to hear in each story title/pitch/synopsis.
I walked people from BBC Worldwide and DW through the beats of each story-- and each one has a very good Doctor Who/Spider-Man "hook", meshing the worlds/character/properties of each character very well-- as well as how we would have had Spider-Man/Peter Parker and the Doctor would work together in each adventure. And the BBC loved it.

Well, good for the BBC.

End of the day, if you're going to have the Doctor interact with a world of super heroes, why not have him interact with the greatest super hero of all-time?

Maybe because a character who's defined by saving the universe and a character who's the ultimate street level hero don't mesh due to the storytelling sensibilities of the genre? Maybe because Spider-Man deserves better than to be a glorified companion?

I get the appeal of marrying the Sci-Fi property with another Sci-Fi property. Like having the Doctor interact with the Fantastic Four. Or have him save a planet that's about to be devoured by Galactus.

Call me boring, but that makes way more sense. Common foundation to build off of, similar tones.

But that doesn't gibe with what makes the Doctor fun. That's like having a peanut butter and peanut butter sandwich. You want the jelly.
It'd be way more fun to have the Doctor travel back in time and interact with Indiana Jones as opposed to having him go to a wacky space bar/Cantina and interact with Han Solo. The Doctor can *already* do something like that.

The franchise crossover isn't enough jelly?

Maybe Doctor Who's identity is so flexible that it can take something completely different and have it make sense, but I really don't see how Spider-Man would fit, given that it's baseline is designed for street-level stuff (Into the Spider-Verse and Firelord notwithstanding). Having a crossover is always cool in and of itself, since it gives an "official" means for the characters who coexist in our heads to do the same, but just throwing two things in a blender doesn't a story make. There need to be some kind of logic to it. Case in point, the Scooby-Doo/Supernatural crossover episode. One's a children's cartoon, the other's an adult drama, but the paranormal genre that they occupy gives a logical hook for the story and why these otherwise dissimilar franchises would work together. (Heck, I don't watch Supernatural, but the clips on YouTube got that point across.)

You keep going over how great this would be for Doctor Who, but that's only half the equation. Just because we like two things doesn't mean they go together. Heck, I love Star Trek and I don't think that would be a good mesh with Spider-Man, unlike how it worked with Green Lantern. Granted, creativity is about the exceptions of the rules and I think just about anything can be pulled off with the right people on it, but, all things considered, I think Marvel made the right call declining. (Kinda wonder if Green Lanterns would be a better fit; a group of space cops who need to follow procedure dealing with a self-described madman with a box who takes the law into his own hands is an obvious hook. The GL Corps would also be on a more equal footing than Spider-Man would.)

[Matt Rat]

I wonder if the subject of 'fixed' points in history ever got brought up in the mini?

[Matt Rat]

Into the Omniverse

[Mister Mets]

I would argue that if it doesn't work from that side, then it's time to consider whether the idea should be pursued in the first place.



Confession: with the rare exception, like the van Gogh episode, I kinda feel that that gimmick never really worked as well as the BBC wanted it, too, or at the very least it never went deeper than: "isn't it cool to see this random person getting sucked into this crazy adventure with this guy who acts like a loon?" Course, I never really got why Doctor Who was that great in the first place, so I'm not the person to ask about it, but still.



Well, good for the BBC.



Maybe because a character who's defined by saving the universe and a character who's the ultimate street level hero don't mesh due to the storytelling sensibilities of the genre? Maybe because Spider-Man deserves better than to be a glorified companion?



Call me boring, but that makes way more sense. Common foundation to build off of, similar tones.



The franchise crossover isn't enough jelly?

Maybe Doctor Who's identity is so flexible that it can take something completely different and have it make sense, but I really don't see how Spider-Man would fit, given that it's baseline is designed for street-level stuff (Into the Spider-Verse and Firelord notwithstanding). Having a crossover is always cool in and of itself, since it gives an "official" means for the characters who coexist in our heads to do the same, but just throwing two things in a blender doesn't a story make. There need to be some kind of logic to it. Case in point, the Scooby-Doo/Supernatural crossover episode. One's a children's cartoon, the other's an adult drama, but the paranormal genre that they occupy gives a logical hook for the story and why these otherwise dissimilar franchises would work together. (Heck, I don't watch Supernatural, but the clips on YouTube got that point across.)

You keep going over how great this would be for Doctor Who, but that's only half the equation. Just because we like two things doesn't mean they go together. Heck, I love Star Trek and I don't think that would be a good mesh with Spider-Man, unlike how it worked with Green Lantern. Granted, creativity is about the exceptions of the rules and I think just about anything can be pulled off with the right people on it, but, all things considered, I think Marvel made the right call declining. (Kinda wonder if Green Lanterns would be a better fit; a group of space cops who need to follow procedure dealing with a self-described madman with a box who takes the law into his own hands is an obvious hook. The GL Corps would also be on a more equal footing than Spider-Man would.)

There are plenty of Spider-Man stories that take him out of his element.

He was in a spaceship in Avengers: Infinity War. That film adapted elements of Jim Starlin's Thanos saga, which included a crossover in which Spider-Man helped the Avengers fight Thanos in space.

Slott's a big fan of team up stories that do sometimes feature Spider-Man in new environments. He's written a few of these as well, with Spider-Verse as a successful example.

We also don't know what his exact pitch is, so a lot of it could be bringing the sci-fi elements of Doctor Who to Marvel Manhattan.

[Digifiend]

Too bad he didn't pitch it 30 years ago. Marvel of course used to have the Doctor Who comic book rights, from 1979 until they sold Marvel UK to Panini in the 90s. Panini still publishes Doctor Who Magazine to this day. Slott needs a TARDIS to get that idea published now!

[Dan Slott]

I would argue that if it doesn't work from that side, then it's time to consider whether the idea should be pursued in the first place.

Sigh.

The reason I've pretty much stayed off message boards for the last decade is this kinda stuff.
End of the day, the project didn't get done and I worked on other things instead.
As a project that never happened, the version of it that lives on with me is the "perfect" version-- everything it could have been.
As a project that never happened, the version that you're choosing to see seems to be the "worst case scenario".

The Spider-Man/Doctor Who crossover was something that everyone around it felt passionately about. This includes people on Marvel Editorial who wanted to edit it-- and a number of Marvel artists whose take was, "I have to be the one to draw that!"
Something I've learned from doing this for close to 30 years, when everyone on the project feels that way, you wind up with something good-- if not great.

And I can 100% guarantee you that people who were deeply invested in Spider-Man, when hearing the story pitches, thought it did work from the Spider-Man side of the equation. The project wasn't a love letter to Doctor Who, or a love letter to Spider-Man, it was very much a love letter to the very weird and wonderful intersection where both characters could meet. It was about finding creative ways to blend things that were unique to Spider-Man with thing that were unique to Doctor Who. If you took either character out or tried to swap a different one in, none of the stories worked. And there's nothing in here that could have been cannibalized for either Spider-Man stories OR Doctor Who stories for a different project. The concepts were that unique to the intersection of both characters.

Confession: with the rare exception, like the van Gogh episode, I kinda feel that that gimmick never really worked as well as the BBC wanted it, too, or at the very least it never went deeper than: "isn't it cool to see this random person getting sucked into this crazy adventure with this guy who acts like a loon?" Course, I never really got why Doctor Who was that great in the first place, so I'm not the person to ask about it, but still.

I don't think it's a surprise that I feel differently on the matter. I love the episodes with Agatha Christie, Charles Dickens, Rosa Parks, Shakespeare, Queen Elizabeth... all of 'em. I think they had a lot more depth and fun than you're giving them credit for. And if you don't think Doctor Who is "that great in the first place", it's weird to me that you'd take such an opinionated stand on this.

Well, good for the BBC.

Like I said before, there were many parties at Marvel that were keen on the project too.

Maybe because a character who's defined by saving the universe and a character who's the ultimate street level hero don't mesh due to the storytelling sensibilities of the genre?

1. The Doctor isn't defined as someone who saves the universe. He's a traveler in time and space who finds himself pulled into adventures-- because he's kind and thinks he should do the right thing. (He just happens to save the universe from time to time. Seriously though, he does have adventures where the stakes are sometimes saving just 1 life. And frequently has adventures where he saves people and places on the exact same scale that Spider-Man does.

2. And every now and then, Spider-Man does save everyone on Earth. Honest. And sometimes... everyone in the Spider-Verse. ;-)

Maybe because Spider-Man deserves better than to be a glorified companion?

If you travel with the Doctor and you go on adventures, you're one of his companions.
If you're inducted into the Avengers, you get to be called an Avenger.
Getting to be one of the Doctor's companions is cool. The character of the Doctor has been around for 60 years, is one of the most beloved franchises in genre fiction, and being one of his official companions is a very rare thing to be able to put on a CV.
I don't see why you're dismissing it or making it sound like some kind of insult.
Would it help if Spider-Man also told the Doctor, "And you, Doctor, are now officially one of my Amazing Friends." :-D

Call me boring, but that makes way more sense. Common foundation to build off of, similar tones.

When I was working on REN & STIMPY and we did a Marvel crossover, people started suggesting other crossovers-- with humor based Marvel characters. Like Forbush Man. And to me, that's boring. You don't want to team up "similar tones" with each other. You want to team up characters that will contrast. If you did a crossover between Martin & Lewis and Abbot & Costello, you may THINK you want Lewis & Costello, but that would be insufferable. You don't want peanut butter and peanut butter, you want peanut butter and jelly. At least that's my take on it.

The franchise crossover isn't enough jelly?

I get what you're saying. I do. To me the franchise crossover is the novelty of it. But if you want mileage out of it, if you want interesting story fodder, you want there to be more contrast than one-to-one similarity.

Maybe Doctor Who's identity is so flexible that it can take something completely different and have it make sense, but I really don't see how Spider-Man would fit, given that it's baseline is designed for street-level stuff (Into the Spider-Verse and Firelord notwithstanding).

The baseline street-level character you're talking about just had his highest grossing picture (the sixth highest grossing picture of ANY movie of all-time) by teaming him up with a wizard-- whose magic spell brought in baddies from another dimension and two different versions of himself.
I grew up reading a 150 issue run of a book where that street-level character teamed up with Adam Warlock on the moon, fought alongside with Killraven in the future, battled evil spirits with the Scarlet Witch during the Salem Witch Trials, and helped Red Sonja take on one of Conan the Barbarian's greatest foes.

Having a crossover is always cool in and of itself, since it gives an "official" means for the characters who coexist in our heads to do the same, but just throwing two things in a blender doesn't a story make.

We weren't going to do that.

There need to be some kind of logic to it.

There was. And both Marvel and the BBC liked it.

Case in point, the Scooby-Doo/Supernatural crossover episode. One's a children's cartoon, the other's an adult drama, but the paranormal genre that they occupy gives a logical hook for the story and why these otherwise dissimilar franchises would work together. (Heck, I don't watch Supernatural, but the clips on YouTube got that point across.)

Okay, since it's a story I brought up in the interview...
Would you have a problem with a character (The Doctor) who frequently has adventures in the present-- adventures where the inciting incident is a scientist having one of their experiments getting away from them-- coming to OUR time and discovering the Curt Connors' Lizard experiments had been transforming him into a hybrid between humanity and the reptilian Silurians, who live near our Earth's core?
Could you see how that could lead to an adventure that was staying VERY true to BOTH the Doctor's adventures AND Spider-Man's adventures?

You keep going over how great this would be for Doctor Who, but that's only half the equation. Just because we like two things doesn't mean they go together. Heck, I love Star Trek and I don't think that would be a good mesh with Spider-Man, unlike how it worked with Green Lantern. Granted, creativity is about the exceptions of the rules and I think just about anything can be pulled off with the right people on it, but, all things considered...

Then let's chock up this hypothetical crossover to that later scenario.

[Dan Slott]

I think Marvel made the right call declining.

This is the kind of message board response for why I really don't even see the point of visiting here, let alone posting here.
It's this kind of "Well, I wouldn't like it, so NOBODY should have it. And I think that's the way to go" attitude that permeates these boards.
Again, there were people at Marvel who wanted to do it. There were financial and political reasons for Marvel not to do it. And that's why it never came about. Not because people weren't passionate about it, wanted to do it, or thought it would be fun-- because there were people who strongly felt that way, both at Marvel and the BBC.

I'm not going to lie to you. There are projects that are created by committee, projects that are generated for business reasons and come from the top down. Those do exist. But every now and then, I see a fan harping on a project saying "Why are they making THAT? Who asked for THAT?" And sometimes the answer is-- "Because these creators over here felt passionately about it. Because these people really wanted to make that happen. Because they wanted to tell THAT story." And those projects always have a little special extra *something* seeping through cracks-- a level of heart that's baked into the foundation. It's those oddball projects that are the ones we all remember fondly. Look at the Comico GUMBY specials that Art Adams worked on. Do you think ANYONE asked for those? But you pick one up, you look at any single page, and you can just feel all the love pouring through. You read them and you'll never forget them-- in the best possible way. I can't imagine what the point would be of someone who doesn't have a fondness for Gumby taking the time out of their day to sh*t on it and say it shouldn't be done-- when the actual outcome is that someone else-- all the way over there-- was experiencing so much joy from it. If it's not for you, it's not for you-- and that's okay. But if something out there you don't care for-- or see the point of it-- gets approved, gets made, goes up on a rack, and gets bought and enjoyed by someone who is NOT you, how does that hurt you? It's a big marketplace. If this project or another got made, it would NOT stop the things that you do enjoy from coming out. I wish more people understood that.

Anyway... As I am often reminded (and why I really haven't dropped by here in ages), these boards aren't for me. They ARE for readers to vent and spar and get their feelings out there. And the last things you guys need is a comic book creator popping by to explain themself. Now THAT'S a crossover that should be avoided for everyone's peace of mind.

[HypnoHustler]

Thanks for stopping by. IMO, Dr Who and Spidey just seem tonally at odds for me, like mixing …. I don’t know… Batman and Battlestar Galactica. They seem to occupy very disparate spaces in fandom. So if it was published, I probably wouldn’t pick it up. But there’s a lot of stuff I don’t pick up and I wouldn’t oppose it being published either.

[Matt Rat]

You don't suppose The Doctor would tell Peter his Uncle Ben's death is a 'fixed' point?

I'd say Gwen's death ought to be too, but you never know....even at one point in OMD's development it was considered not to be.

[Alan2099]

I might have checked it out, but honestly Dr. Who is never something I really got into and the few times I checked it out where when he was interacting with some other big name character either in his own series or in a comicbook crossover. (The Doctor Who/Stark trek crossover was rather enjoyable.)

Dan seems to have a lot of love for the idea though, so he might have been able to make something interesting happen with it.