If you got to do a Batman Year Four, how would it be?

[bat39]

We've had Year One, literally covering the first calendar year of Bruce and Gordon in Gotham. We've had Year Two, which mainly focused on Bruce dealing with Joe Chill. We've had Year Three, which focused on Dick's origin as Robin.

I've often wondered what a Year Four would look like. Yeah, I know that Year Two and probably Year Three are not really in canon anymore (though who knows, given how malleable continuity is). Still, from a brand perspective, I don't think it'd be impossible for DC to effectively market a 'Year Four'. Hell, Catwoman apparently had a 'Year Two' story back in the 90's despite not really having a 'Year One' (at least not one explicitly titled as such!)

What really fascinates me about the prospect of a Batman Year Four is that, unlike its predecessors, I think it puts us firmly in the territory of the 'classic' Batman and Robin status quo - the one that was pretty much in place by the early 1940's in terms of real-world publication history and continued on for the next nearly three decades. We're not dealing with Batman's early career anymore or even with Robin starting out - we're dealing with an established Dynamic Duo. And as much as Batman, and Robin's, early career keeps getting revisited, I don't think the peak Golden Age/Silver Age era gets revisited through a modern lens that often. I think its time that changes.

So what could a hypothetical Year Four be about? A lot of people would probably be tempted to have it focus on Barbara becoming Batgirl, but I'd avoid that route (my headcanon is anyway that Barbara comes along later, before Dick heads off to college, just as originally published). I think my primary inspiration will be the Golden Age/early Silver Age period. I don't have a specific plot in mind yet, but the general theme would be that Gotham is changing from being a den of organized crime to a weird wonderland of super-villains and bizzare criminals. Basically this is about the period of time between the last vestiges of the 'Year One' Gotham and the world of the Adam West show! In fact, I'd probably have a scene, akin to New Frontier, where Batman sheds the dark grey and black Year One suit and puts on the classic blue and grey Golden Age/Silver Age suit - embracing his role as a superhero and not a shadowy vigilante. Gordon is now firmly established as Commissioner, and Batman and Robin's relationship with the GCPD is a lot more public (maybe I'd even find a way to make their 'deputization' work in a more realistic and contemporary context).

In terms of characters who could show up, I actually think the Kathy Kane Batwoman and Bette Kane Bat-Girl would slot in perfectly here. Maybe we can get Superman too, in a throwback to the classic World's Finest team-ups. Vicky Vale would be a great fit for this era in terms of being Bruce's primary love interest.

Anyway, what do you'll think?

[thwhtGuardian]

I think Waid's kind of doing what I'd imagine a year four would look like in his Worlds Finest book.

[Frontier]

I think Waid's kind of doing what I'd imagine a year four would look like in his Worlds Finest book.

Yeah, Batman basically in his prime with Dick as an older teen Robin, Babs as Batgirl, teaming-up with Superman during the prime of the Justice League, etc.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Probably something like Jason Aaron's upcoming miniseries "Batman: Offworld".

https://www.ign.com/articles/batman-...-aaron-preview

Batman deals with a hard scifi/supernatural story.

[Aahz]

Yeah, Batman basically in his prime with Dick as an older teen Robin, Babs as Batgirl, teaming-up with Superman during the prime of the Justice League, etc.

That would be to early for year 4.

In Year 4 Dick would have just started as Robin, and Barbara becoming Batgirl should iirc happen in year 6.

Year 4 is the era for stories like Robin Year 1.

[bat39]

I think Waid's kind of doing what I'd imagine a year four would look like in his Worlds Finest book.

Tonally maybe. But the time period Year Four would cover would be a bit earlier. I'm talking about the time between Dick's origin as Robin and the era Waid is covering in Worlds Finest.

In real-world publishing terms, if Years One-Three expanded on and reinvented the early Golden Age era, and Waid's book is looking back on the late Silver Age/early Bronze Age, then Year Four would sort of focus on the Golden Age/early Silver Age. So that's Dick in his early teens, Vicky Vale, maybe Kathy Kane as Batwoman, Bette Kane as Bat-Girl and Ace the Bat-Hound (not saying I would necessarily bring in Ace, but I'm talking about that general period). This is basically the 'classic' Batman and Robin status quo, from the early 40's to the mid-to-late 60's.

That would be to early for year 4.

In Year 4 Dick would have just started as Robin, and Barbara becoming Batgirl should iirc happen in year 6.

Year 4 is the era for stories like Robin Year 1.

Spot on!

I'm very much in the camp of Barbara starting out as Batgirl a bit later, as much as I enjoyed Batgirl Year One (which showed her starting out relatively early in Dick's time as Robin). I see it as a Year Six or Year Seven thing.

I think a Year Four book (or even a Year Five book) would sort of cover the period before the Adam West show and 'New Look' era.

[thwhtGuardian]

I don't see why Babs has to start out that late at all.

[Aahz]

I don't see why Babs has to start out that late at all.

Because she did simply did start that late in the time line. And she was at least in her late teen when she started out as Batgirl.

Having her becoming Batgirl in year 4 pretty big retcon.

Considering that you have Dick still just have starting out as Robin in Year 4, I can see Barbara coming in as Batgirl at the earliest in Year 5.

[thwhtGuardian]

Because she did simply did start that late in the time line. And she was at least in her late teen when she started out as Batgirl.

Having her becoming Batgirl in year 4 pretty big retcon.

Considering that you have Dick still just have starting out as Robin in Year 4, I can see Barbara coming in as Batgirl at the earliest in Year 5.

That was done in the past to simply explain the real life time gap from when Dick debuted as Robin in 1940 to when Babs debuted as Batgirl in 1967, but there's no good narrative reason that she has to be considered such a "rookie" in comparison to Dick and the rest of the Batfamily. Year four or possibly five at the latest seems to be a better fit to me.

[bat39]

That was done in the past to simply explain the real life time gap from when Dick debuted as Robin in 1940 to when Babs debuted as Batgirl in 1967, but there's no good narrative reason that she has to be considered such a "rookie" in comparison to Dick and the rest of the Batfamily. Year four or possibly five at the latest seems to be a better fit to me.

Because...she is?

I mean, its not a deal-breaker for me either way. Batgirl Year One put it pretty early in Dick's career, such that it may as well have been Batman Year Four. And I'd have been okay with that too.

But fundamentally, I just see Barbara as having been older when she first became Batgirl...someone who wasn't a kid sidekick dependent on Batman, but who operated largely indepedently. And I think Batgirl just works better as a 'new' later addition to the established Batman and Robin team. That's the context in which she was first introduced back in 1967, and also in BTAS.

Its not about a gap between 1940 and 1967...from the perspective of 'comic-book time', Dick was in his mid-to-late teens when Barbara became Batgirl. Ergo, Batgirl shows up at least a few years into Dick's time as Robin. By the same token, I also prefer Barbara being a few years older than Dick...or maybe just a couple of years older at least (of course, back in the Bronze Age, she was a lot closer to Bruce's age...I don't think we need to go that far though).

Also, its worth noting that Batgirl Year One came out at a time when the Kathy Kane Batwoman and Bette Kane Bat-Girl were no longer in continuity. Once Morrison reinserted them into the timeline, then obviously there has to be a longer gap between Dick becoming Robin and Barbara becoming Batgirl. This was the time period that Morrison focused on for his 'Black Casebook'/Simon Hurt stuff.

Roughly speaking, this is how I view the Batman timeline leading upto COIE:

Year One: Bruce becomes Batman, takes on the Mob, Selina becomes Catwoman

Year Two: The Joker and other rogues show up

Year Three: Dick becomes Robin

Year Four: Kathy Kane becomes Batwoman

Year Five: 'Black Casebook' adventures, Bette Kane becomes Bat-Girl

Year Six: 'New Look' era, Dick co-founds the Teen Titans

Year Seven: Barbara becomes Batgirl

Year Eight: Dick goes off to college, Bruce moves to the penthouse

Year Nine: Dick forms the New Teen Titans

Year Ten: Dick becomes Nightwing, Jason becomes Robin

Year Eleven: Crisis on Infinite Earths

I may be a year or two off on some of these events, but this is broadly how I see it play out. And by the time Barbara gets paralyzed, which I think should happen in Year Twelve, it will have been 5 years or so into her career as Batgirl...so she certainly wouldn't have been a 'rookie'.

[thwhtGuardian]

Because...she is?

I mean, its not a deal-breaker for me either way. Batgirl Year One put it pretty early in Dick's career, such that it may as well have been Batman Year Four. And I'd have been okay with that too.

But fundamentally, I just see Barbara as having been older when she first became Batgirl...someone who wasn't a kid sidekick dependent on Batman, but who operated largely indepedently. And I think Batgirl just works better as a 'new' later addition to the established Batman and Robin team. That's the context in which she was first introduced back in 1967, and also in BTAS.

Its not about a gap between 1940 and 1967...from the perspective of 'comic-book time', Dick was in his mid-to-late teens when Barbara became Batgirl. Ergo, Batgirl shows up at least a few years into Dick's time as Robin. By the same token, I also prefer Barbara being a few years older than Dick...or maybe just a couple of years older at least (of course, back in the Bronze Age, she was a lot closer to Bruce's age...I don't think we need to go that far though).

Also, its worth noting that Batgirl Year One came out at a time when the Kathy Kane Batwoman and Bette Kane Bat-Girl were no longer in continuity. Once Morrison reinserted them into the timeline, then obviously there has to be a longer gap between Dick becoming Robin and Barbara becoming Batgirl. This was the time period that Morrison focused on for his 'Black Casebook'/Simon Hurt stuff.

Roughly speaking, this is how I view the Batman timeline leading upto COIE:

Year One: Bruce becomes Batman, takes on the Mob, Selina becomes Catwoman

Year Two: The Joker and other rogues show up

Year Three: Dick becomes Robin

Year Four: Kathy Kane becomes Batwoman

Year Five: 'Black Casebook' adventures, Bette Kane becomes Bat-Girl

Year Six: 'New Look' era, Dick co-founds the Teen Titans

Year Seven: Barbara becomes Batgirl

Year Eight: Dick goes off to college, Bruce moves to the penthouse

Year Nine: Dick forms the New Teen Titans form

Year Ten: Dick becomes Nightwing, Jason becomes Robin

Year Eleven: Crisis on Infinite Earths

I may be a year or two off on some of these events, but this is broadly how I see it play out. And by the time Barbara gets paralyzed, which I think should happen in Year Twelve, it will have been 5 years or so into her career as Batgirl...so she certainly wouldn't have been a 'rookie'.

It was 100% due to the real time gap, there's no way to see it otherwise. She was introduced as being older simply because she had to be in order to not contradict the past continuity, but there's no reason for her to have to be older.

Frank Miller's All Star Batman and Robin is far from my favorite book but he got that Batgirl and Robin were intrinsically linked so debuting together makes a lot of sense.

For my druthers Batman's time line I'd go with:

Year One: The Redhood Gang part of Zero Year and Year One
Year Two: The Man Who Laughs,Batman and the monster men,Batman and the mad monk, Riddle Factory, secret origins #36, Legends of the Dark Knight Special #1,Penguin: Pain and Prejudice, Batman: The Dark Knight: Chasing Madness, Legends of the Dark Knight (vol.2) #30-32, Snow,Long Halloween.
Year Three: Dark Victory, The Gauntlet
Year Four: Robin Year One and Batgirl Year One
Year Five: Waid's World's Finest, Robin and Batman and Worlds Finest Teen Titans
Year Six: Batman Family and Black Case Files
Year Seven: Nightwing Year One and Jason Todd becomes Robin
Year Eight: Post Crisis Jason Todd stories, Batman The Cult, Death In the Family
Year Nine: Batman Killing Joke, Siege,Otaku,Duel
Year Ten: Tim Drake becomes Robin
Year Eleven: Robin Unmasked, Bullet for Bullock, sorrow street
Year Twelve: Knightfall
Year Thirteen: Contagion
Year Fourteen: no mans land
Year Fifteen: Under the Hood, RIP, Battle For the Cowl
Year Sixteen: Dick and Damian as Batman and Robin
Year Seventeen: Return of Bruce Wayne and Batman Inc
Year Eighteen: Nowish

[Restingvoice]

Year Two is Long Halloween Part 1
Year Three is Long Halloween Part 2 and Two-Face Year One part 1
So Year Four is Two Face Year One Part 2 and Dark Victory Part 1

but that's taking too long

Year One is Rise of The Heroes
Year Two is Rise of The Villains
Year Three is Rise of The Partners
Year Four is Rise of The Teams
This is when Joker, Penguin, Riddler, and Catwoman starts to team up
So Batman and Robin also team up with Batwoman and Batgirl
While on global scale Justice League and Legion of Doom are formed

In comparison Year Three is for Dynamic Duo and World's Finest including Joker Lex team up

[Aahz]

Year Eight: Post Crisis Jason Todd stories, Batman The Cult, Death In the Family
Year Nine: Batman Killing Joke, Siege,Otaku,Duel
Year Ten: Tim Drake becomes Robin

If you go by the comics, Killing Joke, Death In the Family and Tim Drake becoming Robin, happen all in the same year, and Killing Joke happens before Death In the Family.

[godisawesome]

I’d just have Year 4 be the first encounter with Ra’s, and including the conception of Damian.

[bat39]

It was 100% due to the real time gap, there's no way to see it otherwise. She was introduced as being older simply because she had to be in order to not contradict the past continuity, but there's no reason for her to have to be older.

Frank Miller's All Star Batman and Robin is far from my favorite book but he got that Batgirl and Robin were intrinsically linked so debuting together makes a lot of sense.

For my druthers Batman's time line I'd go with:

Year One: The Redhood Gang part of Zero Year and Year One
Year Two: The Man Who Laughs,Batman and the monster men,Batman and the mad monk, Riddle Factory, secret origins #36, Legends of the Dark Knight Special #1,Penguin: Pain and Prejudice, Batman: The Dark Knight: Chasing Madness, Legends of the Dark Knight (vol.2) #30-32, Snow,Long Halloween.
Year Three: Dark Victory, The Gauntlet
Year Four: Robin Year One and Batgirl Year One
Year Five: Waid's World's Finest, Robin and Batman and Worlds Finest Teen Titans
Year Six: Batman Family and Black Case Files
Year Seven: Nightwing Year One and Jason Todd becomes Robin
Year Eight: Post Crisis Jason Todd stories, Batman The Cult, Death In the Family
Year Nine: Batman Killing Joke, Siege,Otaku,Duel
Year Ten: Tim Drake becomes Robin
Year Eleven: Robin Unmasked, Bullet for Bullock, sorrow street
Year Twelve: Knightfall
Year Thirteen: Contagion
Year Fourteen: no mans land
Year Fifteen: Under the Hood, RIP, Battle For the Cowl
Year Sixteen: Dick and Damian as Batman and Robin
Year Seventeen: Return of Bruce Wayne and Batman Inc
Year Eighteen: Nowish

I don't see Batgirl and Robin as being 'intrinsically linked' at all. If anything, from Day 1 Batgirl has always been a bit of an independent entity, at a remove from the Dynamic Duo. Yes, you have Batgirl Year One, ASBAR and a few adaptations going with the idea of a teenage Batgirl debuting around the same time (or even before) Dick as Robin, and its not like I'm fanatically opposed to the idea. But if you look at the original conception of the character, Barbara is very much a young adult who made an independent decision to become Batgirl and functioned largely indepedently of Batman and Robin, though she did occasionally team up with them and, per later retcons, was romantically involved with Robin.

A compressed timeline like the New 52 can have them debut within a year of each other. But if we're going with a longer timeline that more accurately mirrors real-world publishing history (akin to what Morrison did), then Batgirl comes years later.

That apart, I like your timeline. Its fairly close to mine...though mine is a bit less compressed.

Year Two is Long Halloween Part 1
Year Three is Long Halloween Part 2 and Two-Face Year One part 1
So Year Four is Two Face Year One Part 2 and Dark Victory Part 1

but that's taking too long

Year One is Rise of The Heroes
Year Two is Rise of The Villains
Year Three is Rise of The Partners
Year Four is Rise of The Teams
This is when Joker, Penguin, Riddler, and Catwoman starts to team up
So Batman and Robin also team up with Batwoman and Batgirl
While on global scale Justice League and Legion of Doom are formed

In comparison Year Three is for Dynamic Duo and World's Finest including Joker Lex team up

Yeah I broadly agree. Though I'd argue that the World's Finest team-ups are at their peak in Year Four, and the Justice League forms maybe towards the end of this period.

The way I see it:

Year One: Early Golden Age (1939-40)

Year Two: Early Golden Age (1940)

Year Three: Golden Age (1940-1950)

Year Four: Late Golden Age/Early Silver Age (1950-1963)

This actually tells you just how much Batman's early pre-Robin solo career has been expanded drastically from the measly 11 issues it originally took up!

I think a Year Four book's focus would need to be on this transitory Golden Age-to-Silver Age period before the era of the Justice League truly begins. I like the idea of this early phase where the likes of Superman, Batman and Robin, Wonder Woman and maybe Green Arrow and Aquaman, are having their team-ups and the world is still getting used to the idea of superheroes (again). When it comes to Batman specifically, this period bridges the gap between his early vigilante/crime-fighter career and his emergence as a global superhero and Justice League member.

I’d just have Year 4 be the first encounter with Ra’s, and including the conception of Damian.

Nah, I think on a long enough timeline, Ra's and Talia belong during Dick's college era in Year Seven/Eight. If that means Batman is now on Year Twenty (or further) then so be it. Ra's picked the world's greatest detective and an internationally renowned crime-fighter to be his successor, not a rookie vigilante or an up-and-coming superhero who still spent most of his time contending with laughing gas and trick umbrellas.