Best Supporting Cast For Wonder Woman?

[John Venus]

Ideally, I would want a mix of everything; Steve, Etta, Julia, Vanessa, Artemis, Helena, Cassie, Donna and Ferdinand. But if I had to choose which ones were the strongest cast, I would go with the Perez run followed by Byrne's run followed by Rucka's first run.

Etta's best appearance was in Golden Age and after that only glimpses of the kind of character she could be. She needs a strong character arc in the modern era to really solidify her character. There also needs to be a stronger argument for Steve and Etta being in Diana's *the* supporting cast beyond them being the original supporting cast. I get that Steve is the non toxic boyfriend and Etta is meant to be a positive representation of a fat person but the idea they represent can't be the only thing going for them. Which is the point I was trying to make.

Diana does need a central base of operations. Most globe trotting characters have one central base of operations. Bond has MI:6 headquarters in London. Boston, NY and Washington are real world places and is a place she has history with in the comics. A fictional city like Gateway City allows artists more creative freedom and they can personalize the city as much as they like.

[bardkeep]

Etta's best appearance was in Golden Age and after that only glimpses of the kind of character she could be. She needs a strong character arc in the modern era to really solidify her character. There also needs to be a stronger argument for Steve and Etta being in Diana's *the* supporting cast beyond them being the original supporting cast. I get that Steve is the non toxic boyfriend and Etta is meant to be a positive representation of a fat person but the idea they represent can't be the only thing going for them. Which is the point I was trying to make.

I'm pretty firmly on the side of "Perez is the best thing to ever happen to WW/her lore," and Steve was kinda lame by design so that loss wasn't so bad, but man, his impact on Etta was so unfortunate. He sucked all of the fun out of her and making her work for the military was a huuuuge misstep that put her down the wrong path forever - Gail Simone is really the only writer who wrote a military Etta who was also a fun, convincing bestie rather than a walking exposition dump. I'd love to see her take on more of a savvy civilian role - maybe something like Julia in Perez's run but without the maternal element. Also in general I wish writers would disentangle Diana from the US military/any secret US government organizations or at least acknowledge that she's distinctly not American and would find everything about the US military apparatus heinous (MUCH preferred her working for the UN and being an actual political force within it rather than a glorified agent), but that's a much bigger problem.

And I'd loooove to see a modernized take on the Holliday girls, if only because Diana should really have a full marching band accessible at all times. Maybe an Amazon band too, just in case.

[Alpha]

Etta's best appearance was in Golden Age and after that only glimpses of the kind of character she could be. She needs a strong character arc in the modern era to really solidify her character. There also needs to be a stronger argument for Steve and Etta being in Diana's *the* supporting cast beyond them being the original supporting cast. I get that Steve is the non toxic boyfriend and Etta is meant to be a positive representation of a fat person but the idea they represent can't be the only thing going for them. Which is the point I was trying to make.

Nobody here ever said Etta should be part of her supporting cast because she had a different body type, or because she was part of the supporting cast. I don't know why you are bringing that up instead of talking about the points we actualy highlighted. Everyone arguing for her has put her personality above everything else.

Anyway, what's Lois Lane's strong character arc in the modern era?

Diana does need a central base of operations. Most globe trotting characters have one central base of operations. Bond has MI:6 headquarters in London. Boston, NY and Washington are real world places and is a place she has history with in the comics. A fictional city like Gateway City allows artists more creative freedom and they can personalize the city as much as they like.

In most eras, Themyscira is the central base of operations. There's no point to a city since Diana isn't about protecting a city. What I' pitching with Holliday College does actually bring something Diana desperately needs, proof that Diana is creating a new type of society.

[SiegePerilous02]

Nobody here ever said Etta should be part of her supporting cast because she had a different body type, or because she was part of the supporting cast. I don't know why you are bringing that up instead of talking about the points we actualy highlighted. Everyone arguing for her has put her personality above everything else.

Anyway, what's Lois Lane's strong character arc in the modern era?



In most eras, Themyscira is the central base of operations. There's no point to a city since Diana isn't about protecting a city. What I' pitching with Holliday College does actually bring something Diana desperately needs, proof that Diana is creating a new type of society.

I think I was the first one to bring up Etta's body type as a positive, so I think John Venus is referring to stuff like that. And all aspects of Etta should be important, but in the age of body positivity, I think that aspect of Etta is poised to be very important and should stick around.

[Alpha]

Ok but that wasn't your main point. You were one of the people that listed tons of reasons why Etta should be part of the cast. So this notion that "we need more than two reasons" is still made up

And yes, body positivity is a big deal for the Wonder Woman franchise and shouldn't downplayed.

Thankfully Etta's appeal is that and much more, specially her energy and point of view, which in my opinion creates the best dynamic for exciting and fun Wonder Woman stories

[Mel Dyer]

Isn't part of that exactly what this thread is about...having a supporting cast? Also, this is what, if not you, a great many of us have been begging for over the last I dont know....20 years for the character? Wonder Woman has existed, if you will pardon the bad metaphor, on an island by herself with little to no interaction from a continued supporting cast for decades. Even in the last ten years she's had no continuation of characters. G Willow Wilson brought in her own supporting cast and where are they now? (Not that I am complaining about that, I much prefer the cast we have now as compared to that one.)
Plus Diana needs a base of operations, not just floating wherever the wind takes her. Part of the structure of writing is engaging the reader, building an environment around the main character...

You have so MANY good points, here, I feel like I've won the lottery, getting a crack at responding to them.

"Isn't part of that exactly what this thread is about...having a supporting cast? Also, this is what, if not you, a great many of us have been begging for over the last I dont know....20 years for the character? Wonder Woman has existed..." OBrianTallent

Whenever one of us expresses an interest in the Wonder Woman comic featuring some of the traditional, time-honored, all too common elements of superhero comic mythos - a regular supporting cast, an iconic city, etc - someone argues that WW is exceptional, somehow, in not needing these things. They'll also argue that there's something unreasonable or dismissably silly about us wanting to see how they might work, in WW. This is a recurring contention, expressed on these boards, ..and I think it's a legitimate contention.

There's nothing strange about me or anybody else, for wanting to see a writer try any of these things, in our favorite comic. We've seen truly inspired attempts to fix them, and I think we're looking at another one, today, ..with Team Amazon (Michael and Becky's handle for their creative team, in interviews and Twitter). I'm as very hopeful about all of that, as I am sorry I couldn't respond to all of your GREAT comments.

The X-men didn't need a city. Hulk doesn't need a city. Thor has Asgard (as much as Diana has Paradise island)

Those of us, who want to see the WW comic feature a fictional, iconic city - Ocean City (Robinson run), Gateway City, Holliday City, Marston City, Argus City - want it, because we see them in other popular comics, and we're tired of seeing WW left behind. [Period!] There's nothing deeply philosophical about it - we see other fans enjoying them; so, we want them, too.

It's not about need. It's about believe; and I believe in love. I also believe in the power of fictional cities for superheroes.

I think we want a city that belongs to us, the way Gotham belongs to the Batfans.

Maybe, we want them, because such a city, entirely imagined and unique to the WW comic, will belong to the WW comic and, in some small way, to us, the fan community, ..and that probably feels good. Does it even have to be a fully fictional, iconic city, seeing as how highly stylized or fictionalized, real-world cities have become so iconic - the Chicago of Dick Tracy, the New York City of the Spider-Man comics?

Honestly, HH, I don't think we have to have a sound, rational, defensible reason for wanting them, and I doubt the fandoms of other popular comics do, either. It just looks like fun; so, we want it. In a good comic, the iconic city becomes a character, unto itself...in its own right! The operative idea is some kind of potentially iconic building that, on site, announces you are reading a Wonder Woman comic.

I also believe in love; I'm strong enough, and the music's no good, without me, when the money's gone, and I've found someone! Just trying to keep up, jefe! LOL

X-Men had a mansion outside a city. You’re right that Hulk doesn’t need a city. Thor can keep Asgard. Diana can have Themyscira, but she was built to have a city as a character leaving Themyscira to Man’s World.

Originally that was Washington D.C., but as the DCU developed that doesn’t mean she couldn’t have had a Metropolis or Gotham all her own, if someone would have valued creating it for one of the preeminent superheroines of all time.

Marvel and DC cities and locales cannot be compared… it’s two different philosophies…

As an icon, Diana would benefit from what she never got at the time… A city all her own that’s as reflective of her as Metropolis is to a Super guy and Gotham is to a Dark Knight vigilante…

It’s not too late (ever) to give, focus on, and deliver Diana what she should have had all along in the DCU.

We've been discussing this idea, so long, it's almost a secondhand, between us; so, I've got a question, for you. Certainly, it's NOT too late, even in 2022, to icon-up the setting, the stage (city, college, house, etc), from which WW stories are launched - be it Gateway City, Ocean City or some new place. Is it, however, too late to super-realize Washington, DC, ..in some way, which makes it unique to the Wonderverse?

If a writer introduced us to a Washington, DC, with some extra comic-booky elements, we didn't readily recognize, could we accept it?

How I would love to see some genius writer create a cartoonishly over-militarized super-Washington, full of over-sized tanks, aircraft and uniformed servicemen ..and trenchcoated secret agents and absurdly over-sized monuments, cluttering the backgrounds and visible, everywhere! I'd also like to see something big and statement-making for the ARGUS HQ, even if Col. Steve is working out of something that looks like an old, Downtown DC bank. You look at the Daily Planet, and you know you're in Metropolis, or see the Baxter Building, and you know you're reading a Fantastic Four story - that's the iconic bit, I'm on about, so much.

Comparatively, the Washington Monument, Lincoln Memorial and U.S. Capitol Building don't do that. Maybe, moving her out of DC, if only because it's so familiar to us, to a new, fictional or fictionalized locale, is the only way to achieve in WW, what's so visually captivating about the settings in the Superman and Batman comics.

I still think WW should feature the X-files capital of the DCU. Where else, if not in WW? Like dropping a cherry on a cupcake - you know?

Diana didn't come to Man's World to protect a city, she came to change the world. She needs Holliday College, an alternative community where women come to experience a new way of being their best selves, inspired by amazon ideals about athleticism, philosophy, and science. Diana doesn't get to actually make a big difference in the world, so this would be her Krakoa...

Her having a city doesn't do any of this. She would have it just to have it. Diana is a globetrotter. Why would you want her to pretend not to be? Even Superman being centered around Metropolis mostly pushes the logic out of his goals.

I think Editor Robert Kanigher put us all in a weird position, with the way he edited this comic. Whoever writes this comic finds themselves trying to do fix old problems, with new, innovative solutions - Myrina Black, as the greatest never-before-seen, perennial, arch-supervillainess, ever - while making those new fixes feel like they've been in the comic, for nearly a hundred years, ..almost entirely to patch up the editorial black hole, created by Kanigher's neglect. I think we've got to keep that in perspective, when we're arguing with each other, about the missing supporting cast and iconic setting, in Wonder Woman.

If she's going to be a DC girl, I'd really like to see some writer do something interesting with the Holiday College campus. Maybe, Holliday could give Diana an old mansion or gynasium on the campus, ..Marston Hall, Founders' Hall...some sort of stately or unusual looking place to live in and house her armory, vehicles, danger-room, etc.

...Etta's best appearance was in Golden Age and after that only glimpses of the kind of character she could be. She needs a strong character arc in the modern era to really solidify her character. There also needs to be a stronger argument for Steve and Etta being in Diana's *the* supporting cast beyond them being the original supporting cast. I get that Steve is the non toxic boyfriend and Etta is meant to be a positive representation of a fat person but the idea they represent can't be the only thing going for them. Which is the point I was trying to make.

Diana does need a central base of operations. Most globe trotting characters have one central base of operations...

I'm loving the mismatched flatmates sitcom elements in #787!

I've been grumbling about wanting to see WW writers give this a try, for years, online; so, I can't wait to see what happens, next. Will Diana finally be running her own shop, with Steve and Etta, her agents, someday? In Etta, Colonel Steve, Siegfried and Reformed-Villainy-Inker-Yet-To-Be-Named (and hoping it's a woman), you have a perfect storm of contrasting, inter-complimentary characters, creating an on-going narrative, that promises to write itself, ..in which Diana shines, like a ruby in a crown.

I recall concern in our fan community, when Etta was race-swapped for the Kelly TV show tie-in. We worried, that a fat, black Etta would be a stereotype. A similar controversy rose, when artists drew Etta skinny, inviting some to infer thin Etta is 'better Etta' or 'healthy Etta', ..and neither's true, of course. I'm so glad Etta, any color, is back and FAT. In every woman, is a wonder woman - Etta's the postergal for that Marstonian idea.

You've got so many great comments, here.

[John Venus]

I'm pretty firmly on the side of "Perez is the best thing to ever happen to WW/her lore," and Steve was kinda lame by design so that loss wasn't so bad, but man, his impact on Etta was so unfortunate. He sucked all of the fun out of her and making her work for the military was a huuuuge misstep that put her down the wrong path forever - Gail Simone is really the only writer who wrote a military Etta who was also a fun, convincing bestie rather than a walking exposition dump. I'd love to see her take on more of a savvy civilian role - maybe something like Julia in Perez's run but without the maternal element. Also in general I wish writers would disentangle Diana from the US military/any secret US government organizations or at least acknowledge that she's distinctly not American and would find everything about the US military apparatus heinous (MUCH preferred her working for the UN and being an actual political force within it rather than a glorified agent), but that's a much bigger problem.

And I'd loooove to see a modernized take on the Holliday girls, if only because Diana should really have a full marching band accessible at all times. Maybe an Amazon band too, just in case.

100% agreed.

I also agree with moving Diana away from the overt military elements. It's makes way more sense to have her hang out with archaeologists.

To go with my earlier thesis that Julia and Vanessa are meant to represent real world counterparts to WW characters,

Julia = Hippolyta
Vanessa = Cassie/Donna

then Etta would be the Diana's equivalent. I would make her either an assistant or intern to Julia and meeting Diana changes her life .

Nobody here ever said Etta should be part of her supporting cast because she had a different body type, or because she was part of the supporting cast. I don't know why you are bringing that up instead of talking about the points we actualy highlighted. Everyone arguing for her has put her personality above everything else.

The way her personality is depicted is tied to her body weight. In that she is meant to be a positive representation of a fat person. Somebody who isn't reduced to a joke or a punchline but a fun, spirited characters whose candy addiction comes off more as an adorable quirk than a parody.

Anyway, what's Lois Lane's strong character arc in the modern era?

This is not a good counterargument. At best, a deflection.

Not saying Etta is a bad character or that she shouldn't be a part of the Wonder cast. I'm saying she needs a strong story arc of her own in the modern. Steve benefited a lot from the movie and Rebirth. Etta still feels like a background with the ocassional glimpses of what she could be. I want the same resurgence for Etta that Steve got.

In most eras, Themyscira is the central base of operations. There's no point to a city since Diana isn't about protecting a city. What I' pitching with Holliday College does actually bring something Diana desperately needs, proof that Diana is creating a new type of society.

Themysicra is her home. She needs a secondary home in man's world. That doesn't mean she would be limited to just protecting a city. Diana doesn't strike me as the type to just wander around Man's World like a vagabond with no fixed home. Makes more sense that she would have a place or embassy in Boston/Washington/Gateway/New York and then zips back and forth around the city and around the world.

[Mel Dyer]

100% agreed.

I also agree with moving Diana away from the overt military elements. It's makes way more sense to have her hang out with archaeologists.

To go with my earlier thesis that Julia and Vanessa are meant to represent real world counterparts to WW characters,

Julia = Hippolyta
Vanessa = Cassie/Donna

then Etta would be the Diana's equivalent. I would make her either an assistant or intern to Julia and meeting Diana changes her life...

I'd like to see Dr. Julia join the present cast, ..with Wonder Woman, Etta, Col. Steve and Siggy. I think her age, skills, life experiences and history with Diana bring a good balance to the narrative. I also think it would be cute, if Siggy was hot for her, ..since he's way, way old.