DC continuity changes you'd like to see erased/retconned

[Kirk Brent]

Feel free to simply list your picks or include some reasoning behind them.

Here are just a few of mine:

*Zero Hour: Dan Jurgens' original idea for the outcome of ZH would have been far superior to what we got: a new Earth-Two that would have become home to the pre-COIE Earth-2 characters.

* The awful treatment Superman's continuity received during the first eleven years of the new century.

*Identity Crisis.

*Infinite Crisis: Kal-L and Lois survive, Superboy isn't a villain, the aforementioned return to restored versions of their Earths, a new Multiverse exists based on the separation of the five Earths combined in COIE

*Post-IC Superman: Secret Origins is released first, followed by Up, Up, and Away, Escape From Bizarro World, Superman and the Legion of Superheroes, and Brainiac. Johns would stay on and write a much better version of the New Krypton story as well as the Sun-Eater story he references in Secret Origins. Releasing these stories in this order would have fully established the new status quo for Superman and would have helped Johns and Busieks' runs overall.

*Batman's evolution into "******* Batman," especially "Tower of Babel" and the OMAC nonsense.

* Damian Wayne surviving the events of "Batman and Son."

* Barry Allen returning and replacing Wally. Barry returning isn't the problem, it's his function that still doesn't work today.

*Flashpoint having anything to do with a reboot.

*The New 52.

*Jon Kent being aged up and used by DC and Tom Taylor as a virtue-signaling stunt.

*Clark revealing his secret identity. If anything, I wouldn't mind learning that Perry and Jimmy have known for years but have kept it secret because of their love for Clark and Lois.

*No Bendis on Superman and Legion. Give him The Question or someone else and keep him out of superhero stories.

* No Tom Kong on Batman and no Heroes In Crisis.

* Alfred's death.

[superduperman]

I would probably retcon COIE altogether since it seems to be the cause of all the continuity problems anyway. I didn't used to think that way but I'm beginning to think the only way to actually "fix" DC is to just go back to a simpler point in time and start from there.

[Twice-named]

Kate Kane being Bruce Wayne’s cousin.

Barry Allen’s mother being murdered.

Killing off the Team Titans, except for Terra and Mirage, in Zero Hour.

Everything done with Brother Blood starting with Geoff Johns’ Teen Titans run.

The current Raven. I’d like to see a return to how she was in NTT.

[phonogram12]

I would probably retcon COIE altogether since it seems to be the cause of all the continuity problems anyway. I didn't used to think that way but I'm beginning to think the only way to actually "fix" DC is to just go back to a simpler point in time and start from there.

Exactly this. I truly believe that the only character to really benefit from the post-CRISIS universe in the long run was Batman.

[WebLurker]

Stop with the Crises reboots and just do the simple "everything not in main continuity is another reality of the multiverse" and leave it at that. Every time DC tries to fix continuity, they just make it worse.

Forget the whole "Jessica Cruz is now a Yellow Lantern" business and let her get her green ring back.

[Jackalope89]

Feel free to simply list your picks or include some reasoning behind them.

Here are just a few of mine:

*Zero Hour: Dan Jurgens' original idea for the outcome of ZH would have been far superior to what we got: a new Earth-Two that would have become home to the pre-COIE Earth-2 characters.

* The awful treatment Superman's continuity received during the first eleven years of the new century.

*Identity Crisis.

*Infinite Crisis: Kal-L and Lois survive, Superboy isn't a villain, the aforementioned return to restored versions of their Earths, a new Multiverse exists based on the separation of the five Earths combined in COIE

*Post-IC Superman: Secret Origins is released first, followed by Up, Up, and Away, Escape From Bizarro World, Superman and the Legion of Superheroes, and Brainiac. Johns would stay on and write a much better version of the New Krypton story as well as the Sun-Eater story he references in Secret Origins. Releasing these stories in this order would have fully established the new status quo for Superman and would have helped Johns and Busieks' runs overall.

*Batman's evolution into "******* Batman," especially "Tower of Babel" and the OMAC nonsense.

* Damian Wayne surviving the events of "Batman and Son."

* Barry Allen returning and replacing Wally. Barry returning isn't the problem, it's his function that still doesn't work today.

*Flashpoint having anything to do with a reboot.

*The New 52.

*Jon Kent being aged up and used by DC and Tom Taylor as a virtue-signaling stunt.

*Clark revealing his secret identity. If anything, I wouldn't mind learning that Perry and Jimmy have known for years but have kept it secret because of their love for Clark and Lois.

*No Bendis on Superman and Legion. Give him The Question or someone else and keep him out of superhero stories.

* No Tom Kong on Batman and no Heroes In Crisis.

* Alfred's death.

You nailed most of mine.

One other is Battle for the Cowl. Just bad writing all around.

[superduperman]

Exactly this. I truly believe that the only character to really benefit from the post-CRISIS universe in the long run was Batman.

I mean, Wonder Woman got the ability to fly under her own power and they made her as strong as Superman so that's a step up. But all things considered I think there were in continuity ways of doing that.

[Restingvoice]

Identity Crisis
The use of Pre Crisis heroes as villains in Infinite Crisis
Max Lord being just evil
Riddler being too awesome on his first outing in Zero Year
Haly's Circus being used as a breeding ground for Talon
Batman knowing Joker's identity and his wife and child
Tim Drake's generation not aging
Diana daughter of Zeus
Battle for The Cowl
Talia having sex with Jason
Talia having a harem
Talia abusing her kids
Heroes in Crisis
Wally West erasure from timeline
Jon aged up
Chris Kent murdered (Make him and Lor-Zod different characters)
Lian Harper killed (already rectified but they aged her up)
Superman's bulletproof armor
Slade having sex with Terra (already rectified... I think)
Hal Jordan x Arisia
Parallax Hal Jordan (already rectified... kinda...)
Fridging Alex
Possessing Raven to break up Dick and Kori
Dick having sex with Babs before marrying Kori
Dick being raped and blamed for it
Dick being statutorily raped and still has feelings for the older woman as an adult
Every time Dick has feelings to Bruce's former love interest because it's naughty
Making Tamara Fox OD
Jason's death (replace that with him becoming Red Hood because being hero doesn't change anything)
Babs sexual harassment (shooting her is enough and make the plot about her, not Jim)
Jason Bard framing Jim Gordon for murder
Steph and Tim breaking up (if you have to do it, do it with a proper story arc)
Cancelling Bat Cat marriage
Making Holly Robinson a murderer
Making Jacob Kane an extremist
Making Selina a sex worker (we know you only did it because you're horny. thief back story is enough)
Steve x Etta
Donna's child killed
Making Babs the same age as Dick (it's okay to be in love with someone older)
Making Kori the same height or shorter than Dick (it's okay to be in love with someone taller)
If you wanna make Talia evil do it naturally
Killing the Amazon males (it's okay if they're not allowed in the island, just let them stay with Hephaestus)
Amazons forgiving Hercules without them seeing/knowing that he's been suffering and holding their island like Atlas for eternity as punishment (the punishment earns that forgiveness, but the problem is only Hippolyta and Diana saw it so it's awkward)
The current continuity saying Jon was born 12 years ago (it should be 6 max)
Damian went to hell even though he died saving a girl and the world (wtf DC)
Damian's whole thing with underground secret prison because he thinks Batman's method doesn't work (it doesn't, but come on)
Any instance of Bruce being emotionally constipated dad (HOW THE F DID YOU MANAGE TO RAISE DICK... oh right... it's all attributed to Alfred)
Alfred Pennyworth worship (seriously, the guy's not that amazing)
Anytime Catwoman beats Cheetah (wtf)

[Mai Zen]

As Zatanna fan, at first glance I would like to erase Identity Crisis forever and ever. It seems the event is only seeking for controversies plus disregard of the characters disagreement of mind altering ethic that happen before the switching body issue with the leaguer enemies (that serve as base for the Identity Crisis event). But well thanks to Identity Crisis, Zatanna has great redemption stories at Seven Soldiers by Grant Morrison and By Paul Dini at Detective Comic.

I'm agree with aged up Jon Kent issue, I feel like there are lot untapped stories with his at that age especially the dynamic with Damian.

Also Heroes in Crisis for sure

[Stanlos]

I mean, Wonder Woman got the ability to fly under her own power and they made her as strong as Superman so that's a step up. But all things considered I think there were in continuity ways of doing that.

That didn't come about as a result of Crisis though. Her design from CONCEPTION says no to male superiority by granting her a DOMINANT FORCE. Her creator went a step further than the creators of Supes and Cap and literally designed to be superior. Her original name in fact was Suprema, the Wonder Woman. While there were differences between her and Supes in terms of how they achieved their powers, she rivals any superman in Strength and Speed. Flight eventually became an express power rather than the inconsistent wind currents which was compromised as early as 42.

[Stanlos]

Simple for me. Go back to the lead up to Infinite Crisis. Get rid of Dan DiDio. Actually follow through on the New Krypton plans and the WW Max Lord conclusion and original Amazons Attack. Kurt Busiek and Mark Waid are senior staff overtaking Johns and, with support from Rucka, Jimenez, and Gail Simone, give IC a conclusion worthy of the excellent work across the entire DC line leading up to the event.

[Kirk Brent]

I would probably retcon COIE altogether since it seems to be the cause of all the continuity problems anyway. I didn't used to think that way but I'm beginning to think the only way to actually "fix" DC is to just go back to a simpler point in time and start from there.

Honestly, that would be my main wish at this point. I didn't choose it because it's one of those things I don't think DC will ever undo, even when it pretends to do so (Convergence) or threatens to do so (Snyder's Omniverse). I fell in love with DC as a kid because, not knowing the criticism and not being confused, I was fascinated by crossovers that involved multiple versions of DC heroes and villains. My brother's copies of "Crisis On Earth-Prime!" are among the first comics I ever saw and later read. It would be easy enough to undo COIE for good: just establish that New Earth and everything that's sprung from it is in a separate Multiverse. The pre-COIE multiverse was believed to have been destroyed but was somehow blocked off from this new multiverse.

Kate Kane being Bruce Wayne’s cousin.

Barry Allen’s mother being murdered.

Killing off the Team Titans, except for Terra and Mirage, in Zero Hour.

Everything done with Brother Blood starting with Geoff Johns’ Teen Titans run.

The current Raven. I’d like to see a return to how she was in NTT.

Not sure how I forgot about Nora Allen, but yes. That was a terrible idea designed to "Batmanify" Barry and it should never have been done much less suggested.

Stop with the Crises reboots and just do the simple "everything not in main continuity is another reality of the multiverse" and leave it at that. Every time DC tries to fix continuity, they just make it worse.

Forget the whole "Jessica Cruz is now a Yellow Lantern" business and let her get her green ring back.

Agree completely. Hypertime was an interesting idea but is not as easily-understood as the Multiverse. I say keep it simple and use the Multiverse as a narrative and publishing basis.

That didn't come about as a result of Crisis though. Her design from CONCEPTION says no to male superiority by granting her a DOMINANT FORCE. Her creator went a step further than the creators of Supes and Cap and literally designed to be superior. Her original name in fact was Suprema, the Wonder Woman. While there were differences between her and Supes in terms of how they achieved their powers, she rivals any superman in Strength and Speed. Flight eventually became an express power rather than the inconsistent wind currents which was compromised as early as 42.

This is an honest question and in no way meant to be disrespectful: does a woman have to be portrayed as more powerful than a man to be considered better? Must one gender be diminished at the expense of another?

[Gaius]

Daddy Zeus to the bottom of the pit.

[Kirk Brent]

Simple for me. Go back to the lead up to Infinite Crisis. Get rid of Dan DiDio. Actually follow through on the New Krypton plans and the WW Max Lord conclusion and original Amazons Attack. Kurt Busiek and Mark Waid are senior staff overtaking Johns and, with support from Rucka, Jimenez, and Gail Simone, give IC a conclusion worthy of the excellent work across the entire DC line leading up to the event.

YES! This is excellent, especially getting rid of DiDio and following up on New Krypton. There was so much to explore in the idea of an entire planet of surviving Kryptonians. I have no doubt that DiDio was the one to order the planet and its inhabitants destroyed despite the lack of sense it made. As for Johns, do you mean that he would do less with the others being more involved? I'm not a fan of everything he's done, but it's been revealed both by insiders and his own actions that Johns was one of the few higher-ups fighting for the integrity of the DCU in comics. It's no secret that he and DiDio butted heads often, especially since DiDio forced quite a bit of awful decisions on Johns. Google "Dan DiDio hitlist" to learn more. Johns was so close to undoing the nightmare of the New 52 and establishing a new DCU...then DiDio returned and gutted it all with Bendis' help.

[Jon Clark]

I would probably retcon COIE altogether since it seems to be the cause of all the continuity problems anyway. I didn't used to think that way but I'm beginning to think the only way to actually "fix" DC is to just go back to a simpler point in time and start from there.

So to stop the retcons, you retcon something?