Magik by Claremont book club discussion

[Wolverine12]

So it's been about a week and I know a few posters have already read the series so I figured it's an okay time to get the discussion thread going. I'll start with a brief recap and then give my thoughts on the story, please feel free to jump into the discussion at any time.

The story starts with Illyana trapped in Limbo by Belasco as a 7 year old child, she is relying on an older Ororo and and slightly transformed Kitty Pryde to keep her out of Belasco's grasp. We learn Belasco is the current ruler of Limbo and he is basically an omnipotent being there save for Ororo's garden. Most of the tale is a fantasy adventure focusing on a rapidly aging Magik who is both trying to avoid Belasco but is undeniably enticed by his power. Eventually she is trained in physical combat by a ruthless Kitty and is taught spells by Storm. Her journey takes her to Belasco's citadel where she and Kitty think they have escaped to Earth only to learn it was all a ruse. Kitty try's to slay Belasco unsuccessfully and her punishment is she is turned into a pet cat bound to the demon lord. Magik begins to embrace Belasco's teachings while still thinking of a way to get home, she is torn between her old life and her current one. She manifests her stepping disks as she grows older and is able to briefly return to Earth but is quickly taken back to Limbo. Magik try's to oppose Belasco by using her spells for creation instead of destruction but she realizes that her desire is to be rid of Belasco so she creates her soul sword. This gives her the power to finally defeat the demon lord and as she battles him she is gaining his powers while he is drained of them. What eventually frees Illyana from Limbo is the mercy she shows by not killing Belasco, this allows her to use a stepping disk to transport back the moment the X-Men lost her. She is now 14 years old while only seconds have passed for the X-Men on Earth, She decides to return to Xavier's school where she will continue to be an X-Man.


I tried to keep my review brief and I'm sure I'm missing one or two important details so please add whatever I missed to the discussion. I really enjoyed the story the Claremont delivered here, he did a great job showing how torn Magik is between obtaining the power Belasco can offer and her desire to go back home. Often times in the real world we are faced with decisions that could benefit us as an individual but possibly drive a wedge between us and our family and friends so part of me wonder's if Claremont went through something like that before he wrote this. The dialogue was much denser than most modern day Marvel comics which I don't always think is a good thing, sometimes the story just hits you over the head repeatedly with exposition so reading it in one sitting can feel like a bit of a trudge through previously covered ground, this story did have some of that but it wasn't over bearing. Claremont does a good job of really digging into Illyana's head and showing us her struggles. The story also made me want to see what happened to the alternate X-Men that Yana met in Limbo but that's for another day. The ending did feel a bit anti-climactic, Illyana has Belasco defeated and chose not to kill him, but she then just leaves and Belasco isn't really dealt with. I'm guessing that's resolved later though. The art was serviceable, but nothing outstanding. I'm glad this won the first vote because it's something I haven't read before and it was very enjoyable for me. I hope everyone else enjoyed it as well.

I'm excited to hear what everyone has to say!

[Rift]

I wasn't digging it at first. The dialogue was too wooden and I was a little lost on what was going on. But then it just sucked me in. Illyana's struggle was so compelling. I knew she had it rough in Limbo, but now I'm seeing her friends die or turned into monsters, being hunted, hiding in the oak for survival, dealing with her own corruption and struggling to find hope. I get it. I get the hype around Magik's character. This was so good.

I really liked Old Woman Storm. She embodies a lot of what I like about Storm: resourceful, brave, badass, caring, and willing to face a losing battle for the sake of others. A character who's gone through a lot and still keeps moving. She wasn't the best fighter, since she's old as balls. But her personality, knowledge and skill were at the forefront. Please tell me there are stories about Magik and our Storm interacting. I wanna read those.

Cat's costume was so freaking awful. I love it.



I saved a bunch of pictures of it in different angles. It intrigues me so.

Kinda feel bad about the story I picked. I was just going for Hellion stories. Next time, I'll pick a story that I feel is really compelling and entertaining. And has Hellion.

[I'm a Fish]

I remember reading it and loving the story. (Haven't read it in a while so my memory is a little fuzzy)

It's like Alice in Wonderland, only messed up...

The theme of the story is about a child loosing her innocence. The villain takes pieces of her soul, and ultimately she has to use what's left of it to form a soul sword and defeat him. And even though the story ends on a "happier" note, the ordeal Illyana undergoes permanently changes her, physically and mentally.

[Kingdom X]

I'm sure I'll have many more thoughts as other folks chime in, but I was not prepared for how prevalent Belasco's "grooming" would be. From the beginning he makes Illyana feel special and cared for only to then torment her and attempt to twist her in unimaginable ways.

Belasco's voice is kind, his touch is gentle. He won't do anything bad to me. He loves me, he said so.

Like damn... that hit me knowing that she was about to lose out on her childhood and go through so much in this series. Ultimately this is a story about strength, perseverance, and not letting your abuser define you as Magik still chooses mercy over vengeance in the end.

Before this I'd had the cliffnotes of Yana's origin from other stories, but I had no idea how prevalent Storm would be in this story. Makes me a bit sad she doesn't interact with our Storm more.

Also I get why so many depictions of her end up being, "dark angry girl with cool sword." Shutting oneself off and becoming cold is a completely understandable response to trauma, but I think I much prefer this version of Magik who still seems connected to the girl she was and who she wants to be once she starts picking up the pieces. Interesting that we might be getting that back in Ayala's NM run.

[sunofdarkchild]

I reread this story pretty often. On the one hand it's a classic hero's journey, with the call to adventure, resisting the call, the wise old mentor, ect. On the other hand it's a study of abuse and trauma. The broad outline is like Luke Skywalker, with the scene where she spares Belasco being straight out of Return of the Jedi's scene of Luke sparing Vader. The specifics however are more like Anakin Skywalker. There's a reason the soul sword's original design is essentially a lightsaber.

The first time Illyana sees the body of Colossus, her being forced to mercy kill Cat and Ororo, the zombified version of her brother blaming her for the X-Men's deaths and damnation, her parents rejecting her, and the torture of the creation of the third bloodstone are all such incredibly traumatic events on their own, and the latter 4 all happen on the same day. Then there's the years of abuse at the hands of Belasco, S'ym, and even Cat. While Cat's intentions may be good, what she does 100% qualifies as child abuse.

The biggest problem with the way Illyana is written in modern times is that writers have forgotten how important it is that she had to spare Belasco at the end in order to avoid becoming him. Louise Simonson, who edited this story, doesn't seem to have looked at it again when she took over New Mutants and misremembered what happened as Illyana killing Belasco instead of sparing him, and unfortunately Illyana's characterization has been forever tainted by that gigantic mistake, with all subsequent writers using Simonson's characterization of Illyana being far more comfortable with killing, especially in anger, than she is as a result of this story. She could kill her friends because it was an act of love, but to kill in anger would be to destroy what remained of her innocence, and that moral conflict which defined her has been absent for far too long. That rematch with Belasco the final issue promised would come never did as a result, with an entirely new villain being created to take Belasco's place in Inferno. It would take about 25 years before there was a proper follow-up and Illyana was allowed to get closure for what happens in this story. If a writer came along and restored the 'killing when calm is fine, but killing in anger leads to the Darkchild' dichotomy then that would fix pretty much all of the problems with her character nowadays, and handwaving any killing she's done since getting her soul back as having not been done in anger is a small price to pay. As her story is similar to Luke and Anakin's, so too is the moral code she had before later writers forgot this story similar to that of the Jedi.

In Quest for Magik we learn that Belasco did indeed love Illyana. He took back Limbo just to find her and brought her back to life out of an obsession with her. The Cuckoos read his mind and learned that alone of everyone he kidnapped he grew to care for Illyana and was hurt when she rebelled.

We'll see in the next 2 months how much 'The Labors of Magik' is a true follow-up to this. If the villain is truly Belasco then it could be a better follow-up than Quest for Magik was. While it was great that they finally had that promised rematch and Illyana went on to destroy the Elder Gods, the beings Belasco destroyed her life in order to serve, the fact that she was missing her soul removed the moral question and made it easy to kill him. Now that she has her soul, if the writers are smart, that moral quandary should be back in full force. Can she kill Belasco if it's to save her friends, or does she still hate him too much to do the deed without becoming the Darkchild permanently and becoming an even greater threat than he is?

[Kingdom X]

The first time Illyana sees the body of Colossus, her being forced to mercy kill Cat and Ororo, the zombified version of her brother blaming her for the X-Men's deaths and damnation, her parents rejecting her, and the torture of the creation of the third bloodstone are all such incredibly traumatic events on their own, and the latter 4 all happen on the same day. Then there's the years of abuse at the hands of Belasco, S'ym, and even Cat. While Cat's intentions may be good, what she does 100% qualifies as child abuse.

Ok this part was so heartbreaking. It happens so quickly but I'm sure that rejection only furthered Yana's belief that she's "tainted and rotten" inside.

[Uncanny X-Man]

I reread this story pretty often. On the one hand it's a classic hero's journey, with the call to adventure, resisting the call, the wise old mentor, ect. On the other hand it's a study of abuse and trauma. The broad outline is like Luke Skywalker, with the scene where she spares Belasco being straight out of Return of the Jedi's scene of Luke sparing Vader. The specifics however are more like Anakin Skywalker. There's a reason the soul sword's original design is essentially a lightsaber.

Quoted for truth. While the entire mini being a classic Hero's Journey is fairly apparent, the Star Wars connections might not be so well done for pointing them out. Star Wars' influence on Claremont's writing is not to be understated, as are the multiple references he makes to the saga during his run, culminating in him working on novel with George Lucas.

But back to Illyana, having re-read her mini fairly recently, I think it still holds up very well: the pacing, the character work, the dialogues and the art are all top-notch. It's really hard not to get overwhelmed by fear and despair as Illyana goes through her trial and even as she wins in the end, to ignore how her soul might be forever tainted.

I also love how Claremont shaped Belasco into an absolutely terrifying, disturbing and perverse villain, a true demon with no redeeming qualities.

[jwatson]

Having finished read this i have to say this was just a fanastastic story and so many elements were hit here.

This not only was a journey for illyana but i feel it was also a glimpse into why ororo isn't a fan of magic and why that was never really the path for her. She is a goddess of balance and life and i found it fascinating to later when we saw illyana trying to create her own accorn but finally coming up with a sword, life and personfication is what Ororo does and she will always instinctively seek a natural balance and i like to believe she drew sustenance from her tree much lllayana did later and that's why she was able to exist so long in limbo, but without nature to preserve her in that hellish limbo like her tree ororo was withering away over time. I love that belasco himself came to see her as a great adversary and admitted though he won the battle ororo won the war and also that split second after Illyana stabbed Ororo and the lightning shot out and "it was as though she became one with the lightning." and wreaked havok.

This story also really made me like Illayana even more than i did. The strength and cunningness it took her to basically go along until she could see her way out, her patience is truly legendary. It really touch on a lot of themes such as lost innocene, someone being taken from their family and friends agaisnt their will have having to change to survive, to adapt. The way claremont was able to really get us into illayan head via the close captions, to feel how frieghtened she was or what losses meant to her is the stuff that truly makes comics great.
Some little things i also noticed the story parralels very well with Storm's quest of losing her powers and the symbol illyana had on her pendant and used to gain her freedom in the end is the same symbol that Storm lit up with lightning that Forge made that allowed them to teleport back to the real earth. There is a lot rushing in my mind having read the mini and so many little things that connect. This was very much illyana's life death and grander than i thought it would be. I'm sure i'll add more later as it matriculates through my mind.

Her parent's not recognizing her, gutted.
I didn't realize how intelligent magick is suppose to be.
Unlike a lot of people her strong magic is HIGHLY earned and she did the work to learn it.
This in a way makes me think about the plight of kidnapped children.
This would be a really good movie but it really would have to be one handled well. But in the horror genre this could be amazing with Belasco playing like the freddy kreguer role and limbo being sort of like the dream scape.

[sunofdarkchild]

If I have any complaints, it's the 1-year time-skip at the end of the first issue. There was no reason to have a year pass in the blink of an eye from Illyana's point of view, and it undermines the premise that what was seconds on earth was years for her, because that year wasn't a year to her but a couple of minutes. The story would have better served by either just having her spend a full year with Ororo or just one day. It's like Claremont needed to have at least 1 year pass with every issue and couldn't figure out how to do it in the first issue because there was so much that needed to be set up.

A further analysis of Illyana's character journey.

The first major paradigm shift comes in this moment.

seeing colossus.jpg

This is the moment the stakes become real for Illyana. She's been kidnapped before and seen real battle before. She coped with both because they ended with the good guys winning and her big brother, the man of steel, saving the day. Even when she was frightened, she still smiled and all it took to soothe her worries was the reassurance Piotr would always protect her and a bedtime story from Kitty.



Before she comes across Colossus' corpse, Illyana's main concern is not screaming or crying so that Piotr won't be ashamed of her. She has total faith in her brother, in Kitty, in Storm. Of course they will keep her safe. So all she has to do is keep calm and act brave while they do it. That childlike faith and innocence is shattered in this single moment. Her big, strong, invincible brother was killed, while in his armored form that should have made him untouchable. He can't protect her. He couldn't even protect himself. At this point she's just 7 years old, and since a year went by in a minute she's mentally still 6, and she's confronted with the first major loss of her life and the fact that the world is cruel and there are no guaranteed happy endings. Limbo is dangerous and she could be ripped to shreds at any moment. After this when she sees Cat battle a demon, she doesn't see her old friend Kitty who promised to keep her safe, she sees the animalistic creature Limbo has molded her into, and fully believes that Cat would kill her. At this point she still needs Cat to protect her because she knows 0 spells and hasn't started learning how to fight. But she's ready to learn how to survive. It's notable that immediately following the escape from S'ym is when Illyana does the first active thing she does not only in this story but in her entire publishing history, gathering firewood and cooking her tiger steak. This is the first thing she ever does by herself or for herself. It is the first step in her move from side character and dependent into protagonist and fully-realized character, the first step in growing up.

In truth, Cat didn't need to play that cruel game she played the next day to motivate Illyana to toughen up. There's a very good chance Illyana would have been more than willing to pick up the sword if she hadn't been pushed far past the point of exhaustion by that point. She has the motivation from seeing Piotr dead. And that allows her progress at a pace that within 2 years, when she's still just 9 years old, she's mastered the blade enough to equal cat. And when they face Nightcrawler, she's completely changed from the helpless child who could only run away she was at the beginning of the issue. Now she strikes without hesitation, with the full intent to kill, and instead of the faux bravery of not screaming so her brother won't be ashamed of her, she truly overcomes her fear to fight for herself even knowing he has 3 swords to her knife and can teleport.

So, like the classic hero's journey, the death of a parental figure, in this case Colossus, motivates Illyana to stop resisting the call to adventure and to become an active instead of a passive part of her own story. But it's not the inciting incident since she's already been in Limbo for full year and already left the relative safety of Storm's garden. Unlike Luke, who left home forever when his aunt and uncle were killed and sought adventure among the stars, Illyana is coming to realize what she will have to do to go home. It is again, more like Anakin, who left his home with the intention to return to his mother and was forced to come to terms with the fact that the Jedi are not the invincible guardians he thought they were when the man who would have become his father figure is killed by Darth Maul.

But her journey is still far from complete. As strong and independent as she has become, and even after learning hundreds or even thousands of spells, she's not ready to truly fight on her own, seeking help from Ororo at the first contact the elder sorceress makes. Even 5 years after seeing his corpse, she still views many of her actions through the lens of how Piotr would be proud or ashamed of her, including the first time she reaches an intended destination with the stepping disks.

[sunofdarkchild]

In the beginning of issue 3 we see the first instance of Illyana's suicidal tendencies.


running.jpg

In issue 2 Illyana fought to live because she still had hope she could go home again and everything could be as it was, but as she comes into a fuller understanding of the struggle between light and dark raging within her, and as the passing years reduce her hope of ever seeing home again, Illyana has come to see death as means of escape from her torment. She would let herself be killed here except that she knew Belasco would just bring her back, a prediction which turned out to be entirely correct. While the first 3 years in Limbo were a struggle to stay alive, the last 4 years were not because Belasco would not let her die. With that easy way out denied to her, she had no choice but to go through Belasco.

This desire for death is one of Illyana's more consistent character traits. After everything that happened in Limbo she hates herself with a passion and her greatest fear is losing control of her dark side and killing or corrupting everyone she cares for. In the issue where she joins the New Mutants she wishes she had not survived Limbo. In the New Mutants special edition in Asgard the Enchantress says she will grant Illyana the 'oblivion' she seeks. When the Beyonder comes to kill the New Mutants she immediately offers herself up as a sacrifice to spare the rest of the team. In issue 50 she tries and fails to kill herself while fighting S'ym and the tech-virus infected armies of Limbo. She states 'I should be dead' during Inferno and this time she succeeds in committing suicide, leaving an alternate timeline version of herself behind to take her place. When Belasco brings her back, she is furious not only that he brought her back without her soul, but that he wouldn't let her stay dead. During Second Coming: Hellbound she begs Pixie to kill her, seeing herself as no better than Belasco. In Dead Souls when she thinks Rictor died during a mission she asks why her story keeps going, and when Rahne died in Rosenberg's run she again expressed her frustration that a friend died instead of her. Before Krakoa she saw death as the way to end her suffering and protect others from the evil inside her.


This is why the Truth or Death mini is so out of character for Illyana and is best taken as non-canon. The 616 Illyana both never expected to survive into adulthood and didn't want to. Coming into the future and learning she was no longer alive would be as surprising and upsetting to her as learning that water is wet. The question was never 'why did she die.' It's 'why did she live as long as she did?' It's why she didn't commit suicide before Inferno, why she didn't let S'ym or the demon bear kill her like she did the Beyonder. It's why she got up in the morning and helped defeat the Shadow King or Kulan Gath or Legion, why she kept going when living was so hard. Why did she wait so long to make the choice Jean made so quickly after becoming Dark Phoenix when she wanted do die far more than Jean did?

[jwatson]

In the beginning of issue 3 we see the first instance of Illyana's suicidal tendencies.


running.jpg

In issue 2 Illyana fought to live because she still had hope she could go home again and everything could be as it was, but as she comes into a fuller understanding of the struggle between light and dark raging within her, and as the passing years reduce her hope of ever seeing home again, Illyana has come to see death as means of escape from her torment. She would let herself be killed here except that she knew Belasco would just bring her back, a prediction which turned out to be entirely correct. While the first 3 years in Limbo were a struggle to stay alive, the last 4 years were not because Belasco would not let her die. With that easy way out denied to her, she had no choice but to go through Belasco.

This desire for death is one of Illyana's more consistent character traits. After everything that happened in Limbo she hates herself with a passion and her greatest fear is losing control of her dark side and killing or corrupting everyone she cares for. In the issue where she joins the New Mutants she wishes she had not survived Limbo. In the New Mutants special edition in Asgard the Enchantress says she will grant Illyana the 'oblivion' she seeks. When the Beyonder comes to kill the New Mutants she immediately offers herself up as a sacrifice to spare the rest of the team. In issue 50 she tries and fails to kill herself while fighting S'ym and the tech-virus infected armies of Limbo. She states 'I should be dead' during Inferno and this time she succeeds in committing suicide, leaving an alternate timeline version of herself behind to take her place. When Belasco brings her back, she is furious not only that he brought her back without her soul, but that he wouldn't let her stay dead. During Second Coming: Hellbound she begs Pixie to kill her, seeing herself as no better than Belasco. In Dead Souls when she thinks Rictor died during a mission she asks why her story keeps going, and when Rahne died in Rosenberg's run she again expressed her frustration that a friend died instead of her. Before Krakoa she saw death as the way to end her suffering and protect others from the evil inside her.


This is why the Truth or Death mini is so out of character for Illyana and is best taken as non-canon. The 616 Illyana both never expected to survive into adulthood and didn't want to. Coming into the future and learning she was no longer alive would be as surprising and upsetting to her as learning that water is wet. The question was never 'why did she die.' It's 'why did she live as long as she did?' It's why she didn't commit suicide before Inferno, why she didn't let S'ym or the demon bear kill her like she did the Beyonder. It's why she got up in the morning and helped defeat the Shadow King or Kulan Gath or Legion, why she kept going when living was so hard. Why did she wait so long to make the choice Jean made so quickly after becoming Dark Phoenix when she wanted do die far more than Jean did?

I read it completely differently. To me Illayana came off as someone who had the will to live. I think this was evident even more so by her line "I've seen Belasco bring people back from the dead." So for her there was no point in even thinking about death. It was more imo would you succumb to giving away her own free will and freedom or not, and she never gave that up either and eventually succeeded. Even in her speech when she calls upon her soul sword it was clear she wanted to find out who she was, live as the person she wanted to be and that manifested itself as a weapon used to protect herself and others where she was once vunerable.

Also for me what made the Cat moment so devastating and painful was that there was a piece of kitty trying to work it's way out to speak with illyana, her instinct after chasing her was to try to comfort her and it wasn't when Illyana was afraid that she struck, when she was afraid she hid it was when she saw the real kitty in Cat and knew there was nothing she could do she wanted her gone, she didn't want that reminder because it may have weakened her resolve to do what she needed to do. It was a chance to potentially save Cat and that blast was the day Kitty truly died and Illayana knows it, but hard choices had to be made. It is such a psychological roller coaster, the story.

[sunofdarkchild]

I read it completely differently. To me Illayana came off as someone who had the will to live. I think this was evident even more so by her line "I've seen Belasco bring people back from the dead." So for her there was no point in even thinking about death. It was more imo would you succumb to giving away her own free will and freedom or not, and she never gave that up either and eventually succeeded. Even in her speech when she calls upon her soul sword it was clear she wanted to find out who she was, live as the person she wanted to be and that manifested itself as a weapon used to protect herself and others where she was once vunerable.

Also for me what made the Cat moment so devastating and painful was that there was a piece of kitty trying to work it's way out to speak with illyana, her instinct after chasing her was to try to comfort her and it wasn't when Illyana was afraid that she struck, when she was afraid she hid it was when she saw the real kitty in Cat and knew there was nothing she could do she wanted her gone, she didn't want that reminder because it may have weakened her resolve to do what she needed to do. It was a chance to potentially save Cat and that blast was the day Kitty truly died and Illayana knows it, but hard choices had to be made. It is such a psychological roller coaster, the story.

I agree that it takes a certain willpower to do what she does and to not give up, though my interpretation of that will is very different than yours. To me it's the willpower to fight against her own desires. Just as the evil part of her yearns to cause death and destruction, the other part of her wants the peace of the grave so that can never happen, and she suppresses both desires to keep fighting for good. The plain reading of 'I think how easy it would be to slow my pace a step or 2 and let her do it, but I've seen Belasco raise the dead and so I run all the more quickly,' is that it's the prospect of being brought back to life that makes her run faster and truly frightens her, and that plain reading fits with her later history. The fact is she has a long history of suicidal tendencies and thoughts. It's probably the most consistent character trait she has.


i should be dead.jpg

kill me.jpg


I also think you're overstating how much Illyana has planned out and especially how cold and calculating she is here. Her lashing out at Cat was a purely emotional reaction and had nothing to do with any plans she may have had. The reminder that Cat used to be her friend was too painful, and the spell she used wasn't anything she learned but words put in her mouth at that moment by the Elder Gods. That was the moment she realized they favored her as much as they did Belasco. Yes, she plays the good girl and uses every opportunity to delve into the library to find a spell that would allow her to kill Belasco, but that's as far as her plans ever got. She would eventually develop into a more cold and calculating person who is willing to make very hard choices, but she's not at that point yet.

[Wolverine12]

There were some really insightful responses to this series, thank you everyone that has posted so far. So now that it has been a little over a week since the thread opened I was thinking it might be time to take more recommendations for the next series we all read. I'm going to resubmit my recommendation of Weapon X by Barry Windsor Smith.

[Uncanny X-Man]

I submit New X-Men by Kyle & Yost :love:

[Rift]

I submit New X-Men by Kyle & Yost :love:

Based and samepilled. But I'm going to specify issues 20-23, the immediate fallout after M-Day. While the juicy bits start happening in the next arc, this story is a great intro to the characters and shows off the characters' plight in the wake of disaster.