Dark Crisis #1 Discussion/Spoilers

[MajorHoy]

. . . Alexander Luthor was from Earth 3, so really it was odd that he became evil. A Luthor from the reverse evil earth should be the most noble person.

There was a Luthor from "the reverse evil earth" that was a noble person:

Alexander Luthor's father.

[Ascended]

I am not seeing it either but I hope I am wrong. I really want to like this. I want to see real change.

Then we should look to the monthlies. Most of the time, these big Events don't really enact any lasting change. They might try to, but generally whatever they do gets ignored, forgotten, or retconned within a year or two. Usually the only time Event change sticks is when the change was already in the works and the Event was just used to put a spotlight on it.

Real change happens when the regular titles inch the story forward bit by bit (Clark and Lois' marriage), or try something new that catches on in a big way (Dick becoming Nightwing).

I figure this new Crisis is most likely just gonna double down on the direction DC has already pointed itself in. Treat the League like the elder statesmen of the DCU, much as the JSA once were, and open up room for the legacies to operate. DC has been doing that for over a year now, Dark Crisis just might make it "official." And with the new ownership, who knows if this direction will stick? AT&T liked the Future State kids and wanted to invest in them, but Discovery might have different priorities and ideas.

[MajorHoy]

. . . I figure this new Crisis is most likely just gonna double down on the direction DC has already pointed itself in. Treat the League like the elder statesmen of the DCU, much as the JSA once were, and open up room for the legacies to operate. . .

But where would that leave the JSA (if they ever do show up again as a group)?

[Restingvoice]

I figure this new Crisis is most likely just gonna double down on the direction DC has already pointed itself in. Treat the League like the elder statesmen of the DCU, much as the JSA once were, and open up room for the legacies to operate. DC has been doing that for over a year now, Dark Crisis just might make it "official." And with the new ownership, who knows if this direction will stick? AT&T liked the Future State kids and wanted to invest in them, but Discovery might have different priorities and ideas.

Actually, that's not a bad idea for the new Multiverse they say's going to happen
Multiverse-1 for the JLA focus
Multiverse-2 for the JSA focus
Multiverse-3 for the Legacy focus where maybe the JLA remains dead
It's only a bad idea because we know they're just gonna put 50% of their focus on Multiverse-1 Batman anyway

[Ascended]

But where would that leave the JSA (if they ever do show up again as a group)?

As a niche project that only gets made when a creator has a pitch that editorial likes. Which is where we already are.

However! The League becoming the elder statesmen of the DCU doesn't *have* to mean the JSA is in limbo. Seems to me that there's at least three simple things that could keep the JSA active and relevant, even with the League taking over their old role.

First, you could just split the JSA up and put them on various other teams and titles. The Green Lanterns have been off-world almost entirely lately, so let Allan join the Big 7 League. Make sure Jay has a role in the Flash. Put Stargirl on the next teen team. Stuff like that. You won't get all of the JSA into a book that way and they won't be together, but you'll be able to get the ones people really care about and it's a chance to shake up other team rosters and the supporting cast of solo titles. Not ideal, but better than limbo.

Secondly, with Titans Academy cancelled and the school about to be destroyed in Dark Crisis, have the JSA return to the "mentors of heroes" role they were filling in Johns' second run. Who better to train the next generation than the generation that started, and has seen, it all? They were always a better fit for this than the adult Titans anyway and there's plenty of precedent for it.

Third, and this is my personal favorite, have the JSA return to working for the government, as they did in WWII, but on their terms and in their own way. This even works with what the League has been doing lately; they've rarely been operating on earth, much less in America, and the White House could decide to reactivate the JSA in order to make up the difference. Treat the JSA like Marvel/MCU treat Steve Rogers; not as puppets of the regime who will do whatever they're told, but as patriots who believe in the country (if not the politicians in charge) and want to both fight for the nation's ideals as well as keep an eye on the shady bastards who run things.

And without doubt there's plenty of other good options out there I haven't seen or thought of.

But we gotta recognize that the real problem here isn't the League becoming elder statesmen, or the ever-increasing number of legacy heroes, or anything else regarding the structure of the DCU. The problem, which is twofold, is DC not seeing the value in the IP combined with the state of sales. Even the big names like Green Lantern struggle to carry a book these days and the JSA was a mid-tier seller so there's damn little incentive on the business end to push these guys. So we must lean on the creative end to justify the team being published, and find a compelling hook for them that readers can't get elsewhere. And for DC to do that.....well, we need a creator to pitch something that DC likes. So I guess we're back where we started.

[LAWtoyoto 432]

DARK CRISIS #4

Witness the birth of the new DC Multiverse!
Spinning out of the pages of The Flash, the heroes have learned the secret of Pariah's new worlds—but at what cost does this knowledge come, and what can they even do with this information—or even worse, perhaps Pariah and the Great Darkness want them to know…? On Earth-Zero, Deathstroke continues to move forward with his plans to erase legacy heroics once and for all, while Jon Kent, Nightwing, and the ragtag group of youngsters rally to step up to the increasing number of challenges. The event of the year rages on!

Apparently, this means the Dark Crisis tie-in Flash run is a must-buy run. If you only read the "Dark Crisis" issue and skip until the 4th issue. You would probably miss out on the most important thing that happens in the Flash tie-in. Because you may wonder how this new multiverse happen so the Flash book really needs to check it out in order to fully understand the concept and story.

[Kirk Brent]

Pariah actually makes sense as a villain. The guy is condemned to watch worlds die for eternity. He was bound to go crazy and do whatever it takes to stop it.

Alexander Luthor was from Earth 3, so really it was odd that he became evil. A Luthor from the reverse evil earth should be the most noble person.

Agreed, especially since his father and mother were among the most noble people we knew of on Earth-Three. Another Evil Luthor was just boring and redundant.

[MajorHoy]

Agreed, especially since his father and mother were among the most noble people we knew of on Earth-Three. Another Evil Luthor was just boring and redundant.

But was there something about where Kal-L, Lois, Superboy of Earth-Prime, and Alexander Luthor went to after CoIE was over that maybe caused the males to eventually turn less-than-heroic?

[Stanlos]

There was a Luthor from "the reverse evil earth" that was a noble person:

Alexander Luthor's father.

Ming the Merciless?

[Digifiend]

As a niche project that only gets made when a creator has a pitch that editorial likes. Which is where we already are.

However! The League becoming the elder statesmen of the DCU doesn't *have* to mean the JSA is in limbo. Seems to me that there's at least three simple things that could keep the JSA active and relevant, even with the League taking over their old role.

First, you could just split the JSA up and put them on various other teams and titles. The Green Lanterns have been off-world almost entirely lately, so let Allan join the Big 7 League. Make sure Jay has a role in the Flash. Put Stargirl on the next teen team. Stuff like that. You won't get all of the JSA into a book that way and they won't be together, but you'll be able to get the ones people really care about and it's a chance to shake up other team rosters and the supporting cast of solo titles. Not ideal, but better than limbo.

Yeah, it's a weird fact, but Stargirl has NEVER been on either the Teen Titans nor Young Justice. The boys wanted to recruit the Star Spangled Kid early on (they didn't even know she was a girl until they actually met, lol), but Courtney had already joined the JSA and so turned down the YJ invite. And even in New 52 when the JSA didn't exist, she joined the Justice League of America instead. Her Spring Break Special last year had her befriend Red Arrow, Emiko Queen, so maybe they should be on the next Titans team together (Emiko was on the previous one after all, makes sense that she'd stick with the team). If there's no JSA book, Court should be a Titan.

[Restingvoice]

The JSA have been a multigenerational team with adult Robin and Power Girl in the original. The in story reason for the separation of Titans and Justice League was... actually I don't know, but the original Teen Titans was handling cases involving teenagers that the adult don't understand, so that's one reason, and by the time Dick was 18-19, he insisted that Titans is not junior Justice League and shouldn't be treated as such especially since he's of age.

The concept of the adults don't get it and the teens have to be respected to carve their own path is repeated in Geoff Johns Teen Titans, once again, insisted upon by Dick.

JSA I'm guessing don't have this problem if the teen has no problem being on the same team as their dads, or their concept is more professional all around

That said, by the time we hit Scott Snyder's JL, everyone, young and old are considered members, so it seems the reason there's a different team of teens is mainly to get away from the overbearing adults.

[Digifiend]

The JL are no strangers to having teens on the team. Firestorm comes to mind. And wasn't that forty years ago?

[Restingvoice]

The JL are no strangers to having teens on the team. Firestorm comes to mind. And wasn't that forty years ago?

Ten. The New 52 one is also teenagers. Less than one year, for Naomi.

[M@Bowers2014]

I'm not sure if they were originally aware of just how young Ronnie was in his real life. The Firestorm body was definitely not that of a 17 year old. I know they knew he was younger than them but not an actual teenager. Plus I don't think that they had any idea about the Firestorm matrix and that it contained two people. I could be wrong though since I'm going from memory.

[Restingvoice]

The New 52 one they're aware since the invitation message from Cyborg came to them on the computer school while they're working homework. No idea about the classic version.