Dark Crisis #1 Discussion/Spoilers

[Restingvoice]

Final Crisis definitely does get confusing as it starts going, but I think that first issue was rather simple and effective.



So maybe he shouldn't introduce a villain that wants to destroy multiverse?

Doesn't mean he will succeed?

[j9ac9k]

I didn't read it as disrespect either, but didn't Hal find out about the League dying in Road to Dark Crisis already?

Yeah, but it's clear editorial wasn't making sure all the creatives were on the same page. (they clearly only altered John's appearance for JL#75, but not here) I think knowing that, my interpretation is what the writer intended for that scene is valid.

[HsssH]

Doesn't mean he will succeed?

Yes, usually villains fail. But thats not the point, if the villain claims that he wants to destroy the multiverse then it is natural that readers will assume that this is what the story is about.

[Hol]

I enjoyed this way more than I expected.

In general I am not a fan of Williamsons writing. Didn't like most of his Flash run. I do like him as a person though and enjoy his enthusiasm as a fan. His basic concepts are fun but the delivery doesn't do it for me.

Also, I do not have event fatigue but I do have Crisis fatigue. Tired of Multiverse events. I would have passed on this one but since Wally seems to be so prominent in this series and the build up I had to check it out.

I liked it a lot. Art is great and Williamsons dialogue is much much better. I wish they focused more on the existing legacy characters as opposed to these new ones because I do not feel connected to any of them yet but that is just my preference.

This was a solid fun read. Hopefully Williamsons sticks the landing and he didn't BS us and there will be no more stupid continuity nonsense.

Anyway, it was a good first issue. Looking forward to the rest.

Either way it has to be better than Final Crisis and the Metal books. Those are cluster fucks. I can't even explain what those books were about to people.

[Menacer]

So maybe he shouldn't introduce a villain that wants to destroy multiverse?

It's a fake out and that's been made very clear too

Average reader will suspect a huge multiverse shake down, but Williamson will deliver a twist.

And it's be working on you ... so Williamson has done a good job.

Personally I wish I didn't know what I know.

[Kirk Brent]

My unsolicited opinion:

-DC has a huge problem understanding its legacy characters. Dick Grayson, Wally West, Donna Troy, Kyle Rayner, Kon El are the legacy characters that should be taking center stage. Instead, well... this.

-Pages and pages of pretty-looking art and not much else. Nothing really happened.

-The Titans are again being thrown under the bus for shock value... meh.

-A JL that I don't care about and actually worse than both Robinson's and the Cry for Justice line-up

Exactly my thoughts. Let's look at who could step up if the JLA is "dead" or otherwise out of the picture:

Nightwing, Wally, Kyle, Cyborg, J'onn, Jason Todd, Conner Kent, Donna, Steel, Captain Marvel, members of the JSA. How many decades of experience are there between these people? The same goes for Ted and Booster. If "everything happened," then their character progression from "second stringers" to capable heroes has also happened. They're the most logical inclusions on the "new" JLA.

It's an inconvenient truth for some, but the reason many of these characters you and I mention haven't been used is because they don't meet WB/DC's current identity politics push, which overrules continuity and narrative logic more often than not these days.

I'm not sure if these characters should even be called "legacy characters". I don't like Kyle much, but he has pretty much done everything there is to do and in GL lore he is second only to Hal in importance. JL is gone? Ok, Kyle can replace pretty much anyone that we "lost".

I think Kyle is "missing" but probably for this very reason. Kyle should absolutely be involved and front and center in this. It would be great to see he and Wally on a JLA again, though this time, they're leading it with Dick.

Either way it has to be better than Final Crisis and the Metal books. Those are cluster fucks. I can't even explain what those books were about to people.

Those are complete garbage, but saying Dark Crisis is better than the Metal stuff is faint praise. Still, it at least has some ties to the COIE and Pariah makes sense as a villain, unlike endless evil versions of Batman from a "Dark Multiverse" and whatever other nonsense Snyder came up with to overly-complicate the Multiverse.

[krazijoe]

Exactly my thoughts. Let's look at who could step up if the JLA is "dead" or otherwise out of the picture:

Nightwing, Wally, Kyle, Cyborg, J'onn, Jason Todd, Conner Kent, Donna, Steel, Captain Marvel, members of the JSA. How many decades of experience are there between these people? The same goes for Ted and Booster. If "everything happened," then their character progression from "second stringers" to capable heroes has also happened. They're the most logical inclusions on the "new" JLA.

It's an inconvenient truth for some, but the reason many of these characters you and I mention haven't been used is because they don't meet WB/DC's current identity politics push, which overrules continuity and narrative logic more often than not these days.



I think Kyle is "missing" but probably for this very reason. Kyle should absolutely be involved and front and center in this. It would be great to see he and Wally on a JLA again, though this time, they're leading it with Dick.



Those are complete garbage, but saying Dark Crisis is better than the Metal stuff is faint praise. Still, it at least has some ties to the COIE and Pariah makes sense as a villain, unlike endless evil versions of Batman from a "Dark Multiverse" and whatever other nonsense Snyder came up with to overly-complicate the Multiverse.

I don't know, they way I read the lead in, especially Batmans last words, are that Teen Titans WILL save the day. Just because they are not spotlighted now doesn't mean they won't be. Maybe they threw a swerve by Jon trying to recreate the big three because he thought that is what we wanted/needed, only to find out, it's not, what you need is a strong leader, as stated by Black Adam. I think this was Jon's issue to show this...But what do I know. I fix computers for a living...

[Kirk Brent]

I don't know, they way I read the lead in, especially Batmans last words, are that Teen Titans WILL save the day. Just because they are not spotlighted now doesn't mean they won't be. Maybe they threw a swerve by Jon trying to recreate the big three because he thought that is what we wanted/needed, only to find out, it's not, what you need is a strong leader, as stated by Black Adam. I think this was Jon's issue to show this...But what do I know. I fix computers for a living...

You could be right but I have a feeling the result won't be anything as sensible. Of course, my trust in DC is at an absolute low. It would be zero except for World's Finest.

[InfamousBG]

I enjoyed the issue. I did not think I would.

Hoping the rest of the series is well written and brings a few unanswered questions to rest.

Kind of tired of Crisis events. DC need to move on.

[MajorHoy]

Exactly my thoughts. Let's look at who could step up if the JLA is "dead" or otherwise out of the picture:

Nightwing, Wally, Kyle, Cyborg, J'onn, Jason Todd, Conner Kent, Donna, Steel, Captain Marvel, members of the JSA. How many decades of experience are there between these people? The same goes for Ted and Booster. If "everything happened," then their character progression from "second stringers" to capable heroes has also happened. They're the most logical inclusions on the "new" JLA.

It's an inconvenient truth for some, but the reason many of these characters you and I mention haven't been used is because they don't meet WB/DC's current identity politics push, which overrules continuity and narrative logic more often than not these days...

I'm assuming DC feels the need to find and interest the "next generation" of comic book readers for the company to survive into the future.

But are they? What little information that seems to be available to us doesn't sound like there's necessarily a great demand for these "5G" characters, but then again, will "future readers" be reading old fashioned paper-printed comic books or be more of a digital "collector"? Will they read their "comic books" in a single-issue format as they are released, or in some other manner like "binge reading" or in "collected" versions?

All I know is that DC has moved away from what I want to read, but then again, I'm not likely to be a "target audience".

[InfamousBG]

I'm assuming DC feels the need to find and interest the "next generation" of comic book readers for the company to survive into the future.

Well that is kind of what needs to happen. I may not agree with everything DC is doing right now but I see why. Without young new readers DC will not be around in the future. Every company thinks that way. The "Crisis" events need to stop happening. The "Metal" events need to stop happening. If I was 10 years old and just getting into comics I would be highly confused as to what is going on right now in both major comic companies.

New young readers is a must for the comics industry to survive. How do these comic companies bring them in and have them keep coming back? I do not know the answer to that. I can totally see digital for many fans in a coming years (which I hope never happens). I will not go that way. I love holding a comic book in my hand. Young new readers not so much.

[skyvolt2000]

Exactly my thoughts. Let's look at who could step up if the JLA is "dead" or otherwise out of the picture:

Nightwing, Wally, Kyle, Cyborg, J'onn, Jason Todd, Conner Kent, Donna, Steel, Captain Marvel, members of the JSA. How many decades of experience are there between these people? The same goes for Ted and Booster. If "everything happened," then their character progression from "second stringers" to capable heroes has also happened. They're the most logical inclusions on the "new" JLA.

It's an inconvenient truth for some, but the reason many of these characters you and I mention haven't been used is because they don't meet WB/DC's current identity politics push, which overrules continuity and narrative logic more often than not these days.

Last time I checked Kyle, Steel and others are POC. So lets put an end to the identity politics bashing that so many want to keep tossing out there.

Because Williamson could have EASILY got Bloodwynd, Vibe, Nuklon, Tasmanian Devil, Katanna, Blue Jay, Vixen, Jason Rusch, Faith, Black Lighting, Amazing Man, Ryan Choi, Simon Baz, Jessica Cruz and Steel.

Would it be identity politics then??

[j9ac9k]

My unsolicited opinion:
-DC has a huge problem understanding its legacy characters. Dick Grayson, Wally West, Donna Troy, Kyle Rayner, Kon El are the legacy characters that should be taking center stage. Instead, well... this.

Exactly my thoughts. Let's look at who could step up if the JLA is "dead" or otherwise out of the picture:

Nightwing, Wally, Kyle, Cyborg, J'onn, Jason Todd, Conner Kent, Donna, Steel, Captain Marvel, members of the JSA. How many decades of experience are there between these people? The same goes for Ted and Booster. If "everything happened," then their character progression from "second stringers" to capable heroes has also happened. They're the most logical inclusions on the "new" JLA.

It's an inconvenient truth for some, but the reason many of these characters you and I mention haven't been used is because they don't meet WB/DC's current identity politics push, which overrules continuity and narrative logic more often than not these days.

All the heroes you guys mentioned have been around for .. how many decades? As stated, they have a ton of experience, but the point of this event is to spotlight NEW characters.(it's actually not "what would happen if the JL died." It's "let's create a story to bring together and spotlight these NEW characters, not B-listers who have been around for over 30-40+ years") That's the main point. DC does need to do something with those heroes, but this is not that.

Remember "Legends" which lead to the new JLI lineup? Those were a bunch of mostly NEWER characters to be a breath of fresh air. Did it make "sense" for a lunatic like Guy Gardner to be in the League? The aforementioned Blue&Gold would not have become these seasoned heroes you respect if they had not been newbies thrown into the JLI because - as always - DC was pushing NEW characters. And sorry, but newer characters in the 21st century are going to be more diverse, that's just natural. It's progress, not a trend.

[Menacer]

All the heroes you guys mentioned have been around for .. how many decades? As stated, they have a ton of experience, but the point of this event is to spotlight NEW characters.(it's actually not "what would happen if the JL died." It's "let's create a story to bring together and spotlight these NEW characters, not B-listers who have been around for over 30-40+ years") That's the main point. DC does need to do something with those heroes, but this is not that.

Remember "Legends" which lead to the new JLI lineup? Those were a bunch of mostly NEWER characters to be a breath of fresh air. Did it make "sense" for a lunatic like Guy Gardner to be in the League? The aforementioned Blue&Gold would not have becomes these seasoned heroes you respect if they had not been newbies thrown into the JLI because - as always - DC was pushing NEW characters. And sorry, but newer characters in the 21st century are going to be more diverse, that's just natural. It's progress, not a trend.

People don't get it. The world's always been diverse. It's just that entertainment has always been white male characters. White washed lie.

Finally entertainment is reflecting actual demographics.

And people fight it.

Do you not have black friends? Gay friends? Trans friends? Asian friends? Lesbian friends? Female friends? Etc etc


People must live in some weird bubble.

Even if an argument could be made that entertainment is over correcting and getting to diverse or to woke.
I'd much rather a slight over correction then to be back in the 50s and 60s where black people or gay people were treated like second class citizens, criminals or worse. Always poorly displayed in entertainment or stereotyped.

Thank God modern entertainment reflects the real world and the diversity that exists in it.

[Lal]

All the heroes you guys mentioned have been around for .. how many decades? As stated, they have a ton of experience, but the point of this event is to spotlight NEW characters.(it's actually not "what would happen if the JL died." It's "let's create a story to bring together and spotlight these NEW characters, not B-listers who have been around for over 30-40+ years") That's the main point. DC does need to do something with those heroes, but this is not that.

Remember "Legends" which lead to the new JLI lineup? Those were a bunch of mostly NEWER characters to be a breath of fresh air. Did it make "sense" for a lunatic like Guy Gardner to be in the League? The aforementioned Blue&Gold would not have becomes these seasoned heroes you respect if they had not been newbies thrown into the JLI because - as always - DC was pushing NEW characters. And sorry, but newer characters in the 21st century are going to be more diverse, that's just natural. It's progress, not a trend.

Is the point of the event to spotlight new characters? It was marketed as a celebration of the DC legacy, and so far Williamson keeps telling that Dick, Wally, Hal and the Titans are all key players in Dark crisis.
I'm sure DC will push the new 5G characters hard in this event, but so far facts are that none of them has been really successful, and it seems DC understand that this event can't be all about them. So we'll probably see them stepping up and becoming an bigger part of the DCU, but not the leaders or the main focus like 5G originally planned them to be.