Dark Crisis #1 Discussion/Spoilers

[Somecrazyaussie]

I mean, I'm 39 and I've always read a mix of new and old stuff. It feels odd that someone would have a love of these characters and their universe and not have any interest in or respect for its rich history and myriad of characters. I don't dislike the new characters at all, but I still want a place for the classics to thrive and be featured.

I will say I do think DC has had some lackluster writing lately. I've never disliked Williamson. In fact, I think he and I have a lot of similar tastes and I appreciate where he's coming from creatively, but this event feels very lackluster to me. I want to enjoy it, but I just feel a bit bored. I've felt that way with most of DC's output besides Flash lately. Flash is the only DC title I'm really excited about these days.

I couldn't agree more with this post.

[InfamousBG]

I will say I do think DC has had some lackluster writing lately. I've never disliked Williamson. In fact, I think he and I have a lot of similar tastes and I appreciate where he's coming from creatively, but this event feels very lackluster to me. I want to enjoy it, but I just feel a bit bored. I've felt that way with most of DC's output besides Flash lately. Flash is the only DC title I'm really excited about these days.

I will give this event my full attention. In the end though I feel I already know the outcome.

[married guy]

I mean, I'm 39 and I've always read a mix of new and old stuff. It feels odd that someone would have a love of these characters and their universe and not have any interest in or respect for its rich history and myriad of characters. I don't dislike the new characters at all, but I still want a place for the classics to thrive and be featured.

I will say I do think DC has had some lackluster writing lately. I've never disliked Williamson. In fact, I think he and I have a lot of similar tastes and I appreciate where he's coming from creatively, but this event feels very lackluster to me. I want to enjoy it, but I just feel a bit bored. I've felt that way with most of DC's output besides Flash lately. Flash is the only DC title I'm really excited about these days.

Flash is for mine, the best monthly DC book on the stands at the moment. In regards to Williamson, I don't mind him. His Flash was solid, but not spectacular. His work on Robin has been AMAZING though.
We're only one issue in for this thing, so I'll reserve judgement for the time being. It's the first 'event' book I've been sucked into for quite a few years so I'm hoping DC doesn't burn me again.

[j9ac9k]

Not at all. But DC needs to be inclusive of everybody and that includes those who fall into the "you will not replace us" crowd.

You know when I say the "you will not replace us" crowd, I mean racists (and the banner they hide behind) so no - I strongly disagree that DC needs to do anything to make them feel included, or validate their thinking or worldview in any way.

[Menacer]

I mean, I'm 39 and I've always read a mix of new and old stuff. It feels odd that someone would have a love of these characters and their universe and not have any interest in or respect for its rich history and myriad of characters. I don't dislike the new characters at all, but I still want a place for the classics to thrive and be featured.

I will say I do think DC has had some lackluster writing lately. I've never disliked Williamson. In fact, I think he and I have a lot of similar tastes and I appreciate where he's coming from creatively, but this event feels very lackluster to me. I want to enjoy it, but I just feel a bit bored. I've felt that way with most of DC's output besides Flash lately. Flash is the only DC title I'm really excited about these days.

Your disparaging me for reading 10 trades a year of books from the 70s and 80s... but then only following the flash?

I'm fully invested in modern comics but definitely collect everything from 70s to 2022... I love the characters from all decades though find things older then 80s to feel pretty dated and of there time. KIRBY, which I own his whole new gods Omnibus is interesting but more from a historical point rather then being on par with how I feel about modern books.

Again I read it all.

I'm not poo poo old books or peoples love for old books

I have a problem with people not even having read modern DC (ie you said you only read flash, so how could you know or have an opinion that actually matters) compared to me who collects monthlies and trades Every Single Week.

I'm up to date on so so so many of the minis, ongoing, and black label.

I actually am reading the material and loving it mind you.

Sure there are books I drop (Teen Titans academy for example) but by in large Infinite Frontier is an amazing era of DC books.

How could you know what's good and what's not if you only collect 1 book? You couldn't.

I'm not trying to be aggressive or argumentative but my original post is essentially written for people like you.


"I'm mostly into the old stuff but I think this 1 modern book is good, everything else meh."

[Somecrazyaussie]

You know when I say the "you will not replace us" crowd, I mean racists (and the banner they hide behind) so no - I strongly disagree that DC needs to do anything to make them feel included, or validate their thinking or worldview in any way.

Nope. I misread that and thought you meant the older crowd who feel they are being replaced. Which is my mistake and apologise for that.

[Captain Nostalgia]

You know when I say the "you will not replace us" crowd, I mean racists (and the banner they hide behind) so no - I strongly disagree that DC needs to do anything to make them feel included, or validate their thinking or worldview in any way.

Except for the fact that replacing someone's favourite hero they have been reading for years has nothing to do with race.

The fact they are often non white is immaterial to them. (Everyone wants more racial diversity in the DCU with the exception of a few far right weirdos)

The 5G characters could be made up of blue eyed blond haired Norwegians and people would still be pi$$ed, because people don't want there favourite character replaced. Bottom line.

As that was the original intent of 5G, you can't blame fans who are not running to the stores to pick up Dark Crisis.

[protege]

I would like to have seen Jon recruit Frankenstein.

[ZuLuLu]

Except for the fact that replacing someone's favourite hero they have been reading for years has nothing to do with race. .

In the big two which character have been replaced.

As far as I can see you can still read Bruce, Clark, Diana ...e.t.c

I know some people don't like two characters using the same title for a various reasons which is fine but too many fans seem to believe that if they don't like a book it should not exist or act like they are being forced to read certain books.

As that was the original intent of 5G, you can't blame fans who are not running to the stores to pick up Dark Crisis.

No one here knows what the exact original intent of 5G and how they were going to use original characters, but DC was never going stop using them.

Also where is the evidence that fans are not picking up Dark Crisis just based on digital sales alone it has been the best selling book by DC in a long while.

Most comic books on the date they are published don't even crack Kindle top 100, even Batman stays in the top 200 the exception that I've seen this year are Saga and a few books in the X-Men line. Most comics stay below the 400 range on Amazon.

So far all of the Dark Crisis books have made it into the top 50.

[Captain Nostalgia]

In the big two which character have been replaced.

As far as I can see you can still read Bruce, Clark, Diane ...e.t.c

I know some people don't like two characters using the same title for a various reasons which is fine but too many fans seem to believe that if they don't like a book it should not exist or act like they are being forced to read certain books.



No one here knows what the exact original intent of 5G and how they were going to use original characters, but DC was never going stop using them.

Also where is the evidence that fans are not picking up Dark Crisis just based on digital sales alone it was been the best selling book by DC in a long while.

Most comic books on the date they are published don't even crack Kindle top 100, even Batman stays in the top 200 the exception that I've seen this year are Saga and a few books in the X-Men line. Most comics stay below the 400 range on Amazon.

So far all of the Dark Crisis books have made it into the top 50.

Unless I interpreted it wrong, a comment was made that implied that people who don't want there favourite characters replaced are racists, but race is immaterial to not wanting your favourite character replaced.

I've had a lot of my favourite characters killed off or replaced over the decades, sometimes by another white hero, sometimes by a non white hero or different gender, the outcome of how I feel, (not happy) is the same regardless of skin pigmentation.

Personally I'm not really that invested in Clark or Bruce, so I was never really that bothered by 5G, and I enjoyed the first issue, but a lot of fans are holding out on it, because we have a good idea of what was being proposed from legitimate comic book sites like Bleeding Cool and comicbook.com that got the alleged inside scoop.

[j9ac9k]

Except for the fact that replacing someone's favourite hero they have been reading for years has nothing to do with race.

The fact they are often non white is immaterial to them. (Everyone wants more racial diversity in the DCU with the exception of a few far right weirdos)

Maybe I expected it to be common knowledge, but "You will not replace us" was what the White Nationalists chanted in their rally in Charlottesville. It's the idea behind "Replacement Theory" of perceived threat to white culture that motivated that guy to murder black people in a supermarket in Buffalo.

So no, I am not talking about comic book characters - I'm talking about the real world. So maybe you don't want to defend the "you will not replace us" crowd. And you're kidding yourself if you don't think there's a racial component to a lot of the pushback against diversity. (not that everyone who wants to defend their character being replaced is racist, it's that there happen to be a bunch of racists in that group and even more people who rationalize their racial biases and are in denial that race is an issue - so it's more than "a few weirdos.")

[Refrax5]

Your disparaging me for reading 10 trades a year of books from the 70s and 80s... but then only following the flash?

I'm fully invested in modern comics but definitely collect everything from 70s to 2022... I love the characters from all decades though find things older then 80s to feel pretty dated and of there time. KIRBY, which I own his whole new gods Omnibus is interesting but more from a historical point rather then being on par with how I feel about modern books.

Again I read it all.

I'm not poo poo old books or peoples love for old books

I have a problem with people not even having read modern DC (ie you said you only read flash, so how could you know or have an opinion that actually matters) compared to me who collects monthlies and trades Every Single Week.

I'm up to date on so so so many of the minis, ongoing, and black label.

I actually am reading the material and loving it mind you.

Sure there are books I drop (Teen Titans academy for example) but by in large Infinite Frontier is an amazing era of DC books.

How could you know what's good and what's not if you only collect 1 book? You couldn't.

I'm not trying to be aggressive or argumentative but my original post is essentially written for people like you.


"I'm mostly into the old stuff but I think this 1 modern book is good, everything else meh."

Im not "mostly into the old stuff." What I was saying is that I generally like all eras of DC and am pretty open minded, but in the past year or two, I've been less excited by the writing in DC. I usually follow way more DC stuff than I have been lately and it bums me out. I'm still reading Dark Crisis. I read all the things leading up to Dark Crisis. I read Green Lantern, which just ended. I'm reading Flashpoint Beyond. All of them are just kind of...okay.

I don't "only" follow the Flash. I was just commenting that the Flash is the only book I'm particularly excited about these days. I've been drifting back to Marvel more and more. That said, I was kind of interested in Jace as the new Batman, so I was disappointed he got such a brief appearance in Dark Crisis.

My point was more that there are legitimate gripes with DCs current output and dismissing it as boomers that hate anything new is false and kind of insulting.

[Refrax5]

Flash is for mine, the best monthly DC book on the stands at the moment. In regards to Williamson, I don't mind him. His Flash was solid, but not spectacular. His work on Robin has been AMAZING though.
We're only one issue in for this thing, so I'll reserve judgement for the time being. It's the first 'event' book I've been sucked into for quite a few years so I'm hoping DC doesn't burn me again.

Agreed. I enjoyed his Flash run well enough, but Robin was probably his best work. I'm still going to read Dark Crisis. I don't think it's awful, just not especially exciting so far.

[Captain Nostalgia]

Maybe I expected it to be common knowledge, but "You will not replace us" was what the White Nationalists chanted in their rally in Charlottesville. It's the idea behind "Replacement Theory" of perceived threat to white culture that motivated that guy to murder black people in a supermarket in Buffalo.

So no, I am not talking about comic book characters - I'm talking about the real world. So maybe you don't want to defend the "you will not replace us" crowd. And you're kidding yourself if you don't think there's a racial component to a lot of the pushback against diversity. (not that everyone who wants to defend their character being replaced is racist, it's that there happen to be a bunch of racists in that group and even more people who rationalize their racial biases and are in denial that race is an issue - so it's more than "a few weirdos.")

Yes, comic books aside, as far as the real world goes..... that replacement theory garb is some hardcore KKK $hit, but thankfully it remains a fringe ideology. Canada is a bit different than the US, but generally that stuff up here is confined to the all white rural sticks & bible belt.

Personally I've never encountered a comic fan who is opposed to having a character replaced for diversity reasons, I have unfortunately seen someone allege that somehow a fan was racist just because they didn't want there favourite character replaced to get them to shut up, which was not cool.

Most comic book fans are non political. People just don't want there favourite characters replaced or changed in any manner, period. If I'm a hardcore Clark Kent fan I'd be furious if Jonathan Kent, bi or straight, eventually took over the main title.

At the end of the day we all have favourite characters we've fallen in love with, which is why we read comics in the first place. If we didn't we'd all be happy with the billion Batman titles out there.

[Menacer]

Im not "mostly into the old stuff." What I was saying is that I generally like all eras of DC and am pretty open minded, but in the past year or two, I've been less excited by the writing in DC. I usually follow way more DC stuff than I have been lately and it bums me out. I'm still reading Dark Crisis. I read all the things leading up to Dark Crisis. I read Green Lantern, which just ended. I'm reading Flashpoint Beyond. All of them are just kind of...okay.

I don't "only" follow the Flash. I was just commenting that the Flash is the only book I'm particularly excited about these days. I've been drifting back to Marvel more and more. That said, I was kind of interested in Jace as the new Batman, so I was disappointed he got such a brief appearance in Dark Crisis.

My point was more that there are legitimate gripes with DCs current output and dismissing it as boomers that hate anything new is false and kind of insulting.

Age as a measure of one's enjoyment of modern entertainment is a pretty standard thing tho... older people tend to be stuck in the past. The good old days. It's not meant to be insulting nor always true. But it sure is often true.

Having said that. It's just a generalization and definitely doesn't mean the stereo type is true for you or anyone specifically.

Having said all that. I did misunderstand. You are reading stuff and not connecting. Turns out the stuff that is meh for you is favorite stuff. Flashpoint Beyond, Infinite Frontier, JLI etc have all been books I've really loved following monthly.

So as a fan it suck to hear you don't like it. And you've given it a shot so I hear your opinion.

I collect dc, Marvel and independent and take breaks and bounce around a lot so I don't burn out on stuff. But I'm also always experimenting and make myself read things I may not generally pick just to keep it fresh... so I hear you there too.

flash Rebirth vol 1 to 3 were a bit of a slog for me. I ended up bouncing around a bunch but nearly finished Williamsons whole run and really liked it... only read a few issues of Jeremy Adams Flash but I'm liking it and it's on my pull list.

Ultimately art is subjective and while I feel this era is really strong you feel otherwise and you and others have legitimate gripes.

Someone else comment that Shadow War was so so meh and that has been one of my favorite crossovers. It's made me add Williamson's Robin vol 1 to my reading list.

Ultimately I always feel sad when I hear another comic reader has lost that lovin feeling ... take a break, mine the past or get some good suggestions from the fandom...

Hopefully you find some series that get you hopeful and excited again.

There nearly 60 ongoings, mini series active as of right now. Don't write dc off without really checking things out.


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