Dark Crisis #1 Discussion/Spoilers

[thwhtGuardian]

You think Shadow War was one of your favorite crossovers!? Dark Crisis has been tepid so far but totally unoffensive...but thinking Shadow War was a good story just boggles my mind.

[Menacer]

You think Shadow War was one of your favorite crossovers!? Dark Crisis has been tepid so far but totally unoffensive...but thinking Shadow War was a good story just boggles my mind.

Not of all time. But of the last six months or so it held my attention. Not a perfect story but I was fully engaged. Strong opener, Damian is a fav of mine, the big reveal at the end with GF. The fact that it leads and has been leading Into Dark Crisis. Definitely requires a rereading.

Why did you not like it?

What are your favorite crossovers. Always good to add stuff to the reading list.

[InfamousBG]

I just got caught up with Flashpoint Beyond. I actually like it a lot. If you are reading Dark Crisis pick up Flashpoint Beyond as well.

[thwhtGuardian]

Not of all time. But of the last six months or so it held my attention. Not a perfect story but I was fully engaged. Strong opener, Damian is a fav of mine, the big reveal at the end with GF. The fact that it leads and has been leading Into Dark Crisis. Definitely requires a rereading.

Why did you not like it?

What are your favorite crossovers. Always good to add stuff to the reading list.

There was no big reveal. The "twist" was telegraphed with all the subtlety of a twelve-foot-high neon lettered sign saying "Geo was here" which then made the tag line, "Geoforce? WTF!?" just insulting to every reader. And then, because that twist was so "surprising" instead of something organically revealed as the story progressed you needed a big ol' villain monologue info dump to explain it.

As for what crossovers are better? The answer is just about every one but Shadow War.

For my tastes though for recentish events I enjoyed Convergence, Batman Eternal, Batman and Robin Eternal, The Witching hour was decent and although overly long Death Metal was entertaining enough in a summer block buster popcorn kind of way.

[InfamousBG]

There was no big reveal. The "twist" was telegraphed with all the subtlety of a twelve-foot-high neon lettered sign saying "Geo was here" which then made the tag line, "Geoforce? WTF!?" just insulting to every reader. And then, because that twist was so "surprising" instead of something organically revealed as the story progressed you needed a big ol' villain monologue info dump to explain it.

As for what crossovers are better? The answer is just about every one but Shadow War.

For my tastes though for recentish events I enjoyed Convergence, Batman Eternal, Batman and Robin Eternal, The Witching hour was decent and although overly long Death Metal was entertaining enough in a summer block buster popcorn kind of way.

Shadow War was pointless. Lets hope Dark Crisis is not the same.

[king81992]

Shadow War was pointless. Lets hope Dark Crisis is not the same.

The biggest flaw of Shadow War was writers trying to pretend that Geo Force was in the wrong.

[Menacer]

There was no big reveal. The "twist" was telegraphed with all the subtlety of a twelve-foot-high neon lettered sign saying "Geo was here" which then made the tag line, "Geoforce? WTF!?" just insulting to every reader. And then, because that twist was so "surprising" instead of something organically revealed as the story progressed you needed a big ol' villain monologue info dump to explain it.

As for what crossovers are better? The answer is just about every one but Shadow War.

For my tastes though for recentish events I enjoyed Convergence, Batman Eternal, Batman and Robin Eternal, The Witching hour was decent and although overly long Death Metal was entertaining enough in a summer block buster popcorn kind of way.

Its obvious to anyone knowledgeable in what is a reasonable obscure character.

A good mystery should always give the audience enough info to solve it before the characters...

I mean Watchmen is brilliant but by the end of issue #1 it's pretty apparent that adrian veidt is gonna be the big baddy. Doesn't make Watchmen any less amazing.

The last major story I even remember Geoforce from was Red and Blue Superman Millennium Giants... that was 1997ish

And I guess he plays a part in final crisis, but don't remember the specifics.

It was pretty obvious if Williamson wanted the resolution hidden he could have, but 95% of the people who read that story probably had never even heard of geoforce... since 20 somethings are dcs primary reading demographic.

Ultimately the mystery is a mystery until he drops those major clues which is deep into the story already. Or am I forgetting something In the earlier issues...?

I to enjoyed Convergence and The Witching Hour but haven't read the others you mentioned.

[Robotman]

The biggest flaw of Shadow War was writers trying to pretend that Geo Force was in the wrong.

Yeah that was kinda cringy. The al Ghuls and Deathstroke have killed thousands of people including Brion's friends family and countrymen, not to mention the fact that Deathstroke is a statutory rapist and child murderer. Damien came off looking rather stupid for his non-stop devotion to Ra's and need to seek revenge. If I found out that my grandfather was a genocidal cult leader and someone wanted to take him out, I'd be a lot more understanding even as a 13 year old.

I'm not even a Geo Force fan, in fact I think he's one of DC's most boring characters, but Batman and Damien looked like huge hypocrites when they take Talia and Ra's side.

[Menacer]

Yeah that was kinda cringy. The al Ghuls and Deathstroke have killed thousands of people including Brion's friends family and countrymen, not to mention the fact that Deathstroke is a statutory rapist and child murderer. Damien came off looking rather stupid for his non-stop devotion to Ra's and need to seek revenge. If I found out that my grandfather was a genocidal cult leader and someone wanted to take him out, I'd be a lot more understanding even as a 13 year old.

Damian was raised by them tho.

Cults and brainwashing is highly effective even in the real world let alone comics.

90% of humans worship gods and religions we have no proof for. I think your giving way to much credit and need to give a tiny suspension of disbelief because reality shows we are easily fooled by charismatic leaders. Putin, hitler, Kim Jon etc etc etc trump etc etc

[Robotman]

My big issue right now with Dark Crisis is that I think Pariah could actually be a good villain. I mean he has more reason to become crazed than almost any comics character. Forced to watch universe after universe be destroyed forever? Yeah that would drive anyone mad.

I just haven't seen the makings of a great villain yet under Williamson. I hope that changes by the end of the story.

Damian was raised by them tho.

Cults and brainwashing is highly effective even in the real world let alone comics.

90% of humans worship gods and religions we have no proof for. I think your giving way to much credit and need to give a tiny suspension of disbelief because reality shows we are easily fooled by charismatic leaders. Putin, hitler, Kim Jon etc etc etc trump etc etc

No doubt. We're living in a time when cults of personality are running rampant (and trying to destroy democracy), but if Damien is going to take the side of the al Ghul's should he now be considered an anti-hero?

[InfamousBG]

I'm not even a Geo Force fan, in fact I think he's one of DC's most boring characters, but Batman and Damien looked like huge hypocrites when they take Talia and Ra's side.

I agree 100% with this.

[Menacer]

No doubt. We're living in a time when cults of personality are running rampant (and trying to destroy democracy), but if Damien is going to take the side of the al Ghul's should he now be considered an anti-hero?

Yah I see no reason why characters can't evolve to a good or bad side... I mean geoforce is at the very least antihero / villainous... killing a man who turned himself in...

Ultimately Damian has an extremely messed up, up bringing. Child hood no one here could relate too

And someone attempted to murder his mother.

Batman is also in the al ghul family by relation. And someone attempted to murder the mother of his child.

Anyway I just don't see these glaring problems others are seeing

Shadow War had a lot happen and was enjoyable. As well as complex dynamics.

[thwhtGuardian]

Its obvious to anyone knowledgeable in what is a reasonable obscure character.

A good mystery should always give the audience enough info to solve it before the characters...

I mean Watchmen is brilliant but by the end of issue #1 it's pretty apparent that adrian veidt is gonna be the big baddy. Doesn't make Watchmen any less amazing.

The last major story I even remember Geoforce from was Red and Blue Superman Millennium Giants... that was 1997ish

And I guess he plays a part in final crisis, but don't remember the specifics.

It was pretty obvious if Williamson wanted the resolution hidden he could have, but 95% of the people who read that story probably had never even heard of geoforce... since 20 somethings are dcs primary reading demographic.

Ultimately the mystery is a mystery until he drops those major clues which is deep into the story already. Or am I forgetting something In the earlier issues...?

I to enjoyed Convergence and The Witching Hour but haven't read the others you mentioned.

No, it wasn't a mystery at all. It was obvious that he THOUGHT it was some big surprise, the tag line for the "reveal" was literally, "Geoforce!WTF!?" but in execution he let the cat out of the bag in the second issue when it was revealed that the fake deathstroke escaped through a giant gaping hole in the ground of Geoforce's embassy. Batman stood in the hole and remarked that there was no way a machine could have dug this hole with out being detected...in the embassy of a guy who's super power is literally to move rock who was just shown in the last issue to be really pissed at the Al'Ghuls . Like I said, it was written in giant neon letters for anyone to see...and he still did a big reveal like it was some clever twist. It was embarrassing.

[Menacer]

No, it wasn't a mystery at all. It was obvious that he THOUGHT it was some big surprise, the tag line for the "reveal" was literally, "Geoforce!WTF!?" but in execution he let the cat out of the bag in the second issue when it was revealed that the fake deathstroke escaped through a giant gaping hole in the ground of Geoforce's embassy. Batman stood in the hole and remarked that there was no way a machine could have dug this hole with out being detected...in the embassy of a guy who's super power is literally to move rock who was just shown in the last issue to be really pissed at the Al'Ghuls . Like I said, it was written in giant neon letters for anyone to see...and he still did a big reveal like it was some clever twist. It was embarrassing.

Only obvious if you know geoforce, his powers and his home land of Markovia... I'd argue most readers would not know who geoforce is as he's largely an obscure character. In addition the clues don't even indicate that geoforce was the one who pulled the trigger. It could have just been he was tied to it or some how involved... has geoforce been portrayed as a killer in the past?

In addition you brushed off my Watchmen comparison. Plenty of stories let the cat out of the bag early on to readers or viewers with knowledge... but the average 20 something reader likely would be not only suprised. But would state. Who the fuck is Geoforce.

Batman or Damian while aware it could possibly be geoforce can still be shock that he's become a murder of a man who turned himself in and attempted to kill Talia.

I mean wasn't identity crisis hated cause the reader was blind sided with a murder who wasn't sufficient eluded too?

[thwhtGuardian]

Only obvious if you know geoforce, his powers and his home land of Markovia... I'd argue most readers would not know who geoforce is as he's largely an obscure character. In addition the clues don't even indicate that geoforce was the one who pulled the trigger. It could have just been he was tied to it or some how involved... has geoforce been portrayed as a killer in the past?

In addition you brushed off my Watchmen comparison. Plenty of stories let the cat out of the bag early on to readers or viewers with knowledge... but the average 20 something reader likely would be not only suprised. But would state. Who the fuck is Geoforce.

Batman or Damian while aware it could possibly be geoforce can still be shock that he's become a murder of a man who turned himself in and attempted to kill Talia.

I mean wasn't identity crisis hated cause the reader was blind sided with a murder who wasn't sufficient eluded too?

It's was obvious to everyone, if it wasn't to you then I don't know what to say.