ASM 3 (#897) Discussion

[jwatson]

I’ll give you the Robbie and gang war stuff

But the rest is the stupid version of mystery box. The characters fully know well what happened and why they are in the situations they are in. It’s not suspenseful to them. The only ones in the dark are the readers.

It’s dishonest storytelling, IMO. It’s wholly manufactured artificial tension because the actual story doesn’t have much. It’s the sign of a creative team who aren’t confident that the story they want to tell is strong enough to stand on its own without dangling “oh noes what happened?!??!” in front of the reader to get them to buy the next issue.

Most stories do that. Ned Stark knew exactly what happened in Game of Thrones, but he didn't immediately run around and tell everyone everything which created suspenseful for the situations for the reader who did know. Like Peter Balish and Caitlin stark had a relationship in the past that created tension for other characters and the reader. Obviously Paul didn't know peter had "bills, bills bills..." due so at least in the text he didn't know something the reader didn't know too. As far as we know Spiderman blew up a building but why and how is that affecting Peter's pockets.

[Rift]

So when are we going to get some actually good Spider-Man content in a Spider-Man comic?

When they get desperate and throw in Hellion. He'll bully Peter into fixing his life, then bully everyone else into being cool again.

[Frontier]

When they get desperate and throw in Hellion. He'll bully Peter into fixing his life, then bully everyone else into being cool again.

I feel like we need a training montage of Peter getting his mojo back, so I'd be down for that.

[Matt Rat]

People are overstating that. All we know is there was one time Paul apparently used force and it's brought up in a kind of light banter. That could mean virtually anything at this point.

It's doubly suspect because we don't know the context of what warranted that one time he was violent or who 'deserved' it, but we know he has kids so they may have been witness to it, or involved in it. Given Wells has had parents abuse children in his stories before (Shed) it's not out of reach to suggest Paul gave his son a beating in front of MJ.

[Jness]

Spiderman, Xmen, Avengers, i have to say on every board this sentiment seems to be prelevant. I'm not sure how comics are really suppose to survive when there is this basic underlying notion of things will always return to this "publication" reset or status quo. It's really fascinating. Like if videogames were like we are only going to stay in 8 bit because people love 8 bit and 8 bit sells we wouldn't have the systems we have today. Or animation, or new cgi systems, but somehow comics defy all this and is the only medium i can think of chained by this deep idea of status quo. It can't be an individual fan related thing, it's just too specific. The big two are definitely not the future of longevity for comics at this point, i'm starting to see, well unless they push beyond that. They have horrible business models from a growth standpoint.

To be fair I’m not sure this analogy quite holds. Spider-Man is a brand. Captain America is a brand. Etc. Similarly, *Mario* is a brand for Nintendo, Sonic, Ryu, etc. Those characters actually have *not* changed very much (if at all) in 20+ years. Heck, Mario is nearly 40 years old and the people who did the latest Paper Mario said that Nintendo had very strict rules for the kind of things they could do with both existing and new characters.

There’s no business model here for Marvel other than being a content producer, a cheap experiment factory, and keeping some trademarks safe.

[TinkerSpider]

Most stories do that. Ned Stark knew exactly what happened in Game of Thrones, but he didn't immediately run around and tell everyone everything which created suspenseful for the situations for the reader who did know.

Do you mean the parentage of Jon Snow in the TV series (I haven’t read the books)? That’s not analogous at all. Ned knows, but everyone else is in the dark and stays in the dark until the audience learns the truth at the same time as Bran. Then the audience puts the rest of the clues together with Sam and Bran. And Sam tells Jon as soon as he sees him - he doesn’t keep the secret from him.

Like Peter Balish and Caitlin stark had a relationship in the past that created tension for other characters and the reader.

But again, that’s not kept from the audience. We know fairly early on Littlefinger and Catelyn have a past.

There’s a difference between character A not knowing something character B knows (but the audience knows because we’re in character B’s point of view) and both character A and character B knowing full well what happened in their shared past but speaking cryptically so the audience won’t learn what that past is.

Say, Dany attacks Kings Landing. We see the Dany on her dragon descending on the city. And then smash cut to “six months later.”

Dany and Cersei are now best buddies. Cersei makes cryptic remarks about helping Dany when no one else would.
Cersei knows what she did. Dany knows what she did. The only people who don’t know are the readers.

Jon is now living with Brienne, who refuses to talk to Jamie. Jamie has left Kings Landing and spends his time stalking Brienne, trying to get her attention so they can discuss something mysterious he did around the time of the battle for Kings Landing, but Brienne returns his ravens with a curt, “Stop sending ravens to me.”
Jamie and Brienne know what he did. Brienne knows why they aren’t speaking to each other. Jamie knows why they aren’t speaking. The only people who don’t know are the audience.

Arya is angry with the Hound because he stole something from her. They cryptically discuss the theft, never actually mentioning the stolen object but speaking around it as if someone is eavesdropping on them, instead of speaking normally.
Arya knows what he stole. The Hound knows what he stole. The only people who don’t know what was stolen is the audience.

Etc.

[Lee]

Sure. But he's also asking not to be killed, by telling Tombstone he's learned his lesson. I mean, Wells's or even Slott's Peter isn't so asininely stupid to think that Tombstone is going to stop his plan just because Tombstone taught Spider-Man a lesson. Tombstone told him there was going to be a gang war. That's always been his goal, and Peter knows that because he was told to his face.

And, if Peter had really learned his lesson, that would mean he would not interfere - which of course he would. So of course Tombstone doesn't heed him. Lonnie may be irrational but he's not dumb. He's certainly smarter than Peter is being currently depicted.

He's begging Tombstone not to massacre civilians. He has no other options. Even if begging and pleading only has a one in a million chance of actually working, Peter will take that one option.

[Malachi]

Most stories do that. Ned Stark knew exactly what happened in Game of Thrones, but he didn't immediately run around and tell everyone everything which created suspenseful for the situations for the reader who did know. Like Peter Balish and Caitlin stark had a relationship in the past that created tension for other characters and the reader. Obviously Paul didn't know peter had "bills, bills bills..." due so at least in the text he didn't know something the reader didn't know too. As far as we know Spiderman blew up a building but why and how is that affecting Peter's pockets.

RR Martin writes in the moment. Some things are mapped out and others evolve as he is writing it. But having characters be vague just for story reasons grows thin fast. It’s not a good way if you want to build a strong story that can stand on its own. Instead it is betting on a twist or reveal. Witch can cost you. Just look at M. Night shyamalan’s career.

[Mercwmouth12]

https://twitter.com/RDMacQ/status/1534715224774701056

This theory makes sense

spoilers:

Moria created the clones as a part of her resurrections test to get her body back so shes not a robot anymore and because she created them of course they would see them as her mother

end of spoilers

[David Walton]

He's begging Tombstone not to massacre civilians. He has no other options. Even if begging and pleading only has a one in a million chance of actually working, Peter will take that one option.

Absolutely! It's just who Peter is.

[dornwolf]

https://twitter.com/RDMacQ/status/1534715224774701056

This theory makes sense

spoilers:

Moria created the clones as a part of her resurrections test to get her body back so shes not a robot anymore and because she created them of course they would see them as her mother

end of spoilers

I genuinely want something this well thought out to happen. I just don’t think it’s happening.

[Mercwmouth12]

I genuinely want something this well thought out to happen. I just don’t think it’s happening.

He's coming from writing an X-book and honestly would make the most sense. If we see MJ and we notice somethings off when we actually see her it's gonna be everywhere and fans buzzing,
Also like they say sometimes the most obvious answer is the correct answer.

[TinkerSpider]

He's begging Tombstone not to massacre civilians. He has no other options. Even if begging and pleading only has a one in a million chance of actually working, Peter will take that one option.

Peter begs him to stop. It can be read as stop the massacre, stop his plan to break Robbie, or stop the kill order on Peter, or all three. Peter says he’s learned his lesson, indicating he’s thinking of himself. Not my fault Wells isn’t precise with his dialogue.

Regardless, it’s so much fun, so uplifting, so inspiring, so not boring at all to read about a hero who can canonically lift ten tons and who has gotten himself out of worse situations, unable to break out of handcuffs and reduced to begging the bad guy who spent the entire issue beating the blood spray out of him while monologuing.

I mean, The Incredibles was released in 2004. You’d think bad guys (and comic book writers) would’ve learned new schtick or least how to subvert expectations since then.

I genuinely want something this well thought out to happen. I just don’t think it’s happening.

Why would spoilers:

Moira Jane

end of spoilerslook sadly out the window at Peter in ASM 1? That’s what stops me from buying into this theory. Unless it’s just inconsistent writing which I do buy.

[SplinteringHeart]

There's all sorts of (deliberate) nuances here, and these are discussed here...I just can't get past Peter/Spidey being so battered..he's just a punch bag, getting the **** beaten out of him!

Nothing wrong with a bit of "realism" about physical confrontation, but this isn't just that, it's as mentioned "suffering porn"...disgraceful in Spidey's 60th year...not what I want to be seeing/ reading!

[Mercwmouth12]

There's all sorts of (deliberate) nuances here, and these are discussed here...I just can't get past Peter/Spidey being so battered..he's just a punch bag, getting the **** beaten out of him!

Nothing wrong with a bit of "realism" about physical confrontation, but this isn't just that, it's as mentioned "suffering porn"...disgraceful in Spidey's 60th year...not what I want to be seeing/ reading!

But..but he gets a fancy new suit from his 'best' friend doesn't that count for something?