January 6 Hearings and Fallout

[CaptainEurope]

NBC News confirms: Special counsel Jack Smith is seeking to compel a lawyer for Trump to answer questions before a grand jury by invoking the "crime fraud" exception that allows the government to penetrate the shield of attorney-client privilege.



Edit: Here is the original NYT story.

[Micabe]

Trump Georgia investigation: grand jury feared witnesses lied under oath, report finds (live)

[shooshoomanjoe]

So nothing happened to trump again. At least a lot of the connection terrorists ended up in jail.

[Tami]

So nothing happened to trump again. At least a lot of the connection terrorists ended up in jail.

What were you expecting at this stage of the legal proceedings? My bet is that something significant will happen by or before October 2023. I will be surprised if it happens anytime soon.

[babyblob]

What were you expecting at this stage of the legal proceedings? My bet is that something significant will happen by or before October 2023. I will be surprised if it happens anytime soon.

Why October 2023?

[Tami]

Why October 2023?

There are elections in November. With the wain of one election year comes the start of the next one. In this case the next Presidential Election season. if Trump is going to be nabbed for anything, best it be done before the end of this years election season and before the start of the next one. Otherwise it can get complicated.

[SquirrelMan]

So nothing happened to trump again. At least a lot of the connection terrorists ended up in jail.

That's not what that means at all.

[babyblob]

There are elections in November. With the wain of one election year comes the start of the next one. In this case the next Presidential Election season. if Trump is going to be nabbed for anything, best it be done before the end of this years election season and before the start of the next one. Otherwise it can get complicated.

That makes sense.

[4theEarth]

If anyone is comparing the 6/1 case with communist trials, they are either maliciously lying, or have zero idea what they are talking about.

Having a parent that escaped Stalin's Soviet Union and a grandparent that survived a work camp I can tell you you have no idea what it means to be canceled. Ideologically consistent systems are perfectly able to run amok on their citizens. Just because you don't equate the US with other megastates doesn't mean they are not all abusers. The US is not about freedom it only plays one on TV.

The two broadly worded laws of 1917 and 1918 ultimately came to be viewed as some of the most egregious violations of the Constitution’s free speech protections. They were written in an environment of wartime panic and resulted in the arrest and prosecution of more than 2,000 Americans, some of whom were sentenced to 20 years in prison for sedition.

So, you support the current state of affairs and are not for revolutionary change, I figured that but why make it a crime? why fear a real, as Oliver Wendell Holmes used his dissenting opinion to those sedition laws said, " marketplace of ideas".

Why does this country fear its own citizens so that things like The Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 keep popping up?

To point yet again to the Dawn of Everything they

define three basic sources of domination in human societies: control over violence (sovereignty), control over information (bureaucracy), and charismatic competition (politics).

How is that going to change if not through people marching on government? How did we get stuck in this crap? A fascist revolution looks as good as a left wing one at this juncture.

[Jack Dracula]

Having a parent that escaped Stalin's Soviet Union and a grandparent that survived a work camp I can tell you you have no idea what it means to be canceled. Ideologically consistent systems are perfectly able to run amok on their citizens. Just because you don't equate the US with other megastates doesn't mean they are not all abusers. The US is not about freedom it only plays one on TV.



So, you support the current state of affairs and are not for revolutionary change, I figured that but why make it a crime? why fear a real, as Oliver Wendell Holmes used his dissenting opinion to those sedition laws said, " marketplace of ideas".

Why does this country fear its own citizens so that things like The Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 keep popping up?

To point yet again to the Dawn of Everything they

How is that going to change if not through people marching on government? How did we get stuck in this crap? A fascist revolution looks as good as a left wing one at this juncture.

Since, as your reference states the 1917 - 1918 laws were enacted as the result of wartime/postwar panic, it seems that war and it's destabilizing effects is the actual problem. Cause and effect.

As to the VRHTP Act of 2007, it also contains this line:

Prohibits Department of Homeland Security (DHS) efforts to prevent ideologically based violence and homegrown terrorism from violating the constitutional and civil rights or civil liberties of U.S. citizens or lawful permanent residents. Directs the: (1) Secretary to ensure that activities and operations are in compliance with DHS's commitment to racial neutrality; and (2) DHS Civil Rights and Civil Liberties Officer to develop and implement an auditing system to ensure that compliance does not violate the constitutional and civil rights or civil liberties of any racial, ethnic, or religious group, and to include audit results in its annual report to Congress.

The full summation can be read here. Hardly a tool of oppression, unless you're planning acts of political or religous violence.

I fail to see how a law meant to curtail violence due to radicalism is an example of totalitarianism. Movements that breed and advocate for violent radical extremism are hardly marketplaces of ideas. That's like calling what happened at the Capitol on Jan 6th a peaceful protest.
The sharing of radical ideas isn't considered illegal. It's the violence that everyone has a problem with.
I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. Frankly, it's a little insulting that you believe people here will fall for this nonsense.

A fascist revolution looks as good as a left wing one at this juncture.

I'd say neither looks good compared to a stable, productive government operating responsibly and oriented towards providing a peaceful and secure society for its citizens. What sort of person advocates for chaos and instability?

What type of society do you wish for?

[Catlady in training]

Having a parent that escaped Stalin's Soviet Union and a grandparent that survived a work camp I can tell you you have no idea what it means to be canceled. Ideologically consistent systems are perfectly able to run amok on their citizens. Just because you don't equate the US with other megastates doesn't mean they are not all abusers. The US is not about freedom it only plays one on TV.



So, you support the current state of affairs and are not for revolutionary change, I figured that but why make it a crime? why fear a real, as Oliver Wendell Holmes used his dissenting opinion to those sedition laws said, " marketplace of ideas".

Why does this country fear its own citizens so that things like The Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 keep popping up?

To point yet again to the Dawn of Everything they

How is that going to change if not through people marching on government? How did we get stuck in this crap? A fascist revolution looks as good as a left wing one at this juncture.

I think you are arguing with someone else.

[CaptainEurope]

Jack Smith has subpoenaed the suspect's daughter Ivanka and her husband Jared K.

[CaptainEurope]

Mike Pence really, really wanted to help the coup if there had been a semi-legal way to do so:

“Over and over, Pence asked if there was anything he could do.

“‘Mike, you have no flexibility on this. None. Zero. Forget it. Put it away,’ Quayle told him.

“Pence pressed again.

“‘You don’t know the position I’m in,’ he said, according to the authors.

“‘I do know the position you’re in,’ Quayle responded. ‘I also know what the law is. You listen to the parliamentarian. That’s all you do. You have no power.’”

How Dan Quayle saved democracy. Yes, really.

[Jack Dracula]

I’m wondering how Trump thought he could possibly govern the country had he succeeded on Jan 6th.
I can’t see it going any direction beyond authoritarian.

[babyblob]

Mike Pence really, really wanted to help the coup if there had been a semi-legal way to do so:



How Dan Quayle saved democracy. Yes, really.

And Pence is called a hero by some and looked at Fondly for not over turning the election. Not only did he want to. But he has many times refused to speak about the 6th and the events leading up to it and after it. And he is fighting the subpoena that will force him to talk about the 6th.

The man is one of the biggest cowards in all of this and is just as bad because he is refusing to talk because for some reason he thinks he has a shot at power and does not want to ruin that.