January 6 Hearings and Fallout

[hyped78]

I don't think it's important to define Jan. 6 as a "coup" or not. What it's important to bear in mind is that it was an illegal and violent invasion of the Capitol - encouraged by the POTUS and others around him - that could've had even worse results (imagine they catch Pence or Pelosi).

[CaptainEurope]

Let's not forget that we already had guilty verdicts for seditious conspiracy.
That automatically makes it more than vandalism and trespassing.

[hyped78]

Let's not forget that we already had guilty verdicts for seditious conspiracy.
That automatically makes it more than vandalism and trespassing.

It is more than vandalism and trespassing, for sure. It wasn't an "innocent demonstration", like many on the far right try to say, by any standards.

My only thing on the "coup" or "not a coup" discussion is that, if anything, this was a disorganized violent mob that probably didn't exactly know what they wanted to achieve, outside of violently invading the capitol and potentially murdering elected officials.

[Tendrin]

I don't think it's important to define Jan. 6 as a "coup" or not. What it's important to bear in mind is that it was an illegal and violent invasion of the Capitol - encouraged by the POTUS and others around him - that could've had even worse results (imagine they catch Pence or Pelosi).

It is, in fact, very important to do so.

[hyped78]

It is, in fact, very important to do so.

The invasion of the Capitol, in itself, constitutes (or should constitute) seditious conspiracy:

18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384

You don't need to prove that they tried to overthrow the government (coup) for those actions to constitute sedition. In fact, trying to define Jan. 6 as a "coup" just increases the burden of proof.

[Tendrin]

The invasion of the Capitol, in itself, constitutes (or should constitute) seditious conspiracy:

18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384

You don't need to prove that they tried to overthrow the government (coup) for those actions to constitute sedition.

It is, in fact, important that we understand what this was in service to, and to whom, and that it was a multi-layered, sophisticated plan with backing at the highest levels of power. It was a coup. We need to call it a coup. It's that simple. We're not talking about the US Code here.

[hyped78]

It is, in fact, important that we understand what this was in service to, and to whom, and that it was a multi-layered, sophisticated plan with backing at the highest levels of power. It was a coup. We need to call it a coup. It's that simple. We're not talking about the US Code here.

I understand - and I agree with you. But by trying to - legally - prove that this was a coup you are effectively increasing the burden of proof

[Tendrin]

I understand - and I agree with you. But by trying to prove that this was a coup you are effectively increasing the burden of proof

That might be true *legally*, in a court of law, sure. Possibly. IANAL, after all.

But the rest of us ought to be able to accurately describe the events of that day for what they are: a coup.

[hyped78]

That might be true *legally*, in a court of law, sure. Possibly. IANAL, after all.

But the rest of us ought to be able to accurately describe the events of that day for what they are: a coup.

Sure

"IANAL" is like the worst acronym ever btw... I_ANAL

(I know what it means)

[Tendrin]

Well, lawyers gotta be.

[CaptainEurope]

Expecting DeSantis to sign a "don't say coup" bill some day.

[hyped78]

Expecting DeSantis to sign a "don't say coup" bill some day.

It's probably safe to assume that DeSantis wants Trump in jail at this point (although technically Trump can run for President from jail)

[Jack Dracula]

It is more than vandalism and trespassing, for sure. It wasn't an "innocent demonstration", like many on the far right try to say, by any standards.

My only thing on the "coup" or "not a coup" discussion is that, if anything, this was a disorganized violent mob that probably didn't exactly know what they wanted to achieve, outside of violently invading the capitol and potentially murdering elected officials.

The majority of the mob were disorganized, but hidden by the chaos were groups of highly organized Oath Keepers and Proud boys, all armed and carrying out a coordinated, preconceived plan. They had military grade weapons and improvised explosives concealed nearby and if the Capitol police hadn’t done their jobs well and held off the rioters long enough for representatives to escape things may have gone tragically different.
The “pro-law enforcement” Republican representatives have, of course shat on those officers at every opportunity since.

[hyped78]

The majority of the mob were disorganized, but hidden by the chaos were groups of highly organized Oath Keepers and Proud boys, all armed and carrying out a coordinated, preconceived plan. They had military grade weapons and improvised explosives concealed nearby and if the Capitol police hadn’t done their jobs well and held off the rioters long enough for representatives to escape things may have gone tragically different.
The “pro-law enforcement” Republican representatives have, of course shat on those officers at every opportunity since.

You forgot about infiltrated Antifa (I'm kidding!!!!!!!)

[Catlady in training]

The above points to the disconnect between freedom and democracy evident in far too many examples but most infamously in their hate speech laws. Voting to repress individuals is the proper use of the mob. Though many americans would agree with this sentiment.

Sigh. Ok, I'll bite, what laws? Examples, please.

Expecting DeSantis to sign a "don't say coup" bill some day.

No way, Republicans protect free speech in it's absolutest!