A.X.E.: X-Men #1 by Kieron Gillen

[Gnostic]

And from his recent interview he's not a fan of eugenics re: Scott and Jeans DNA being the cause of the Messiah which is why he thinks its great that Hope had no relation at all

Can you link me to this interview?

[PyroFN]

But here is the kicker cant the pheonix just ressurect the Grey line?

Yup, but not just because it’s role is manipulate life. It’s also because Jean took the Grey’s family into the White Hot Room in the “End of Grey’s” arc. Their souls are literally within the Phoenix Force.

[PyroFN]

A firefly hosted it too and so did a Shiar

And sharks.



And a rat.



And a T-Rex and Sabertooth Tiger.



But I agree with you in that the real kicker is that one of the first hosts of the Phoenix Force was a Shi’ar. They killed that Shi’ar’s entire bloodline, save for one member to wield the Phoenix Blade. By all accounts, the Shi’ar are high on hubris if they think killing its favorite genetic lines are what will stop the Phoenix from possessing other hosts.

[PyroFN]

Thats not canon though

White Phoenix of the Crown is a multiversal entity who resides in a nexus of all realities. It’s definitely canon.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

What indicates that the "White Phoenix of the Crown" thing is still canon?

[loke13]

What indicates that the "White Phoenix of the Crown" thing is still canon?

Because it hasn't been explicitly stated to be otherwise.

[PyroFN]

God this thread went downhill so quickly after such a good start. I will just focus on something less controversial and more interesting.

What indicates that the "White Phoenix of the Crown" thing is still canon?

The fact that Jean is White Phoenix of the Crown? Or that White Phoenix of the Crown is canon to 616?

Eh. I’ll answer both.

1) For the first question: It’s possible she isn’t. But we can’t prove either way because Marvel never elaborated on how the White Phoenix of the Crown works.

I’m not sure if 616 Jean has to always be in the mantle or if White Phoenix of the Crown is so transcendent of mortal boundaries that she can exist in the White Hot Room while Jean is simultaneously alive in the 616. I don’t know.

Regardless, even if White Phoenix suddenly ceases to exist when 616 Jean rejects the Phoenix, she can easily go back to the mantle. Jean doesn’t lose her control over the Phoenix because she is rejecting it, which Teen Jean makes abundantly clear in Jean’s solo.



2) Here Comes Tomorrow is directly referenced by Jean in Endsong. After the Phoenix merged with her and she is losing herself to Dark Phoenix, Jean makes reference of “little bug people” that were a “genetic obsolescence” that she killed in billions again and again. She also says the phrase, “Here I come, tomorrow”, if to not make more abundantly clear what she is referencing.



Those bug people are the Termids in the city of Panfrika from New X-Men vol 1 #153. Jean killed them because Sublime Beast claimed they were a genetic obsolescence.



Even without this reference, I say again. White Phoenix exists in the Nexus of All Realities, which gives her access across all space AND time. Saying she isn’t canon would be like saying the Living Tribunal isn’t canon.

[PotniaTheron]

Hopefully Gillen can do two things: 1. Reaffirm WPOTC's existence and 2. Draw a line between Wanda/Chaos Magic and Phoenix/Life Force. Bendis and Aaron wrote something toxic and created a mess.

[Marvelfan1992]

Don't think he does, I mean he had Scott spat out by an anus in his run.
And from his recent interview he's not a fan of eugenics re: Scott and Jeans DNA being the cause of the Messiah which is why he thinks its great that Hope had no relation at all

I thought his interview was great on that and I prefer fleshed out Villains. A credible villain elevates the cast as per Claremont.





Nah the scene was that the Shiar murdered the Greys for no reason. But yeah it would be justified in their eyes if that were the case

Wouldn't say he favors or has a bias towards the Summers-Grey clan but he does seem to have an interest in them. Back in his run he gave some focus on their genetics and their power and recently in immortal x-men, he brought up scott's genetics through Sinister's experiments with his optic blasts

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[PotniaTheron]

In recent years, I have seen countless people often say some puzzling words, like Wanda can wipe out the Phoenix in one sentence, chaos magic and Phoenix Force are opposite forces of each other, Wanda can control life Force, so she can control the Phoenix Force... I am curious about Wanda/Chaos Magic and Jean/Phoenix, which are clearly two unrelated characters/forces. Phoenix is the original force of the universe, and Chaos magic is a kind of magic that has nothing to do with each other. I can understand a lot of people working to prove Wanda is strong, but don't understand why their way of proving Wanda is strong is to belittle Jean/Phoenix?

This is undoubtedly the result of Bendis and Aaron.

HOM and AVX need not say much. Not long ago, Aaron listed Scarlet Witch as a possible killer of Phoenix. I don't understand what he's thinking. If he really liked Wanda, he could have put her on the Avengers team, but he didn't. Instead, he gave Phoenix a major role in his story. But at the same time, it's about elevating Wanda's power and devaluing phoenix. I'm afraid the only people who like this arrangement are wanda fans who don't read comics, don't care about wanda's story, and only care about Wanda's fighting power. What he writes can only cause unnecessary strife.

I hope Gillen can put an end to that.

[MechaJeanix]

God this thread went downhill so quickly after such a good start. I will just focus on something less controversial and more interesting.



The fact that Jean is White Phoenix of the Crown? Or that White Phoenix of the Crown is canon to 616?

Eh. I’ll answer both.

1) For the first question: It’s possible she isn’t. But we can’t prove either way because Marvel never elaborated on how the White Phoenix of the Crown works.

I’m not sure if 616 Jean has to always be in the mantle or if White Phoenix of the Crown is so transcendent of mortal boundaries that she can exist in the White Hot Room while Jean is simultaneously alive in the 616. I don’t know.

Regardless, even if White Phoenix suddenly ceases to exist when 616 Jean rejects the Phoenix, she can easily go back to the mantle. Jean doesn’t lose her control over the Phoenix because she is rejecting it, which Teen Jean makes abundantly clear in Jean’s solo.



2) Here Comes Tomorrow is directly referenced by Jean in Endsong. After the Phoenix merged with her and she is losing herself to Dark Phoenix, Jean makes reference of “little bug people” that were a “genetic obsolescence” that she killed in billions again and again. She also says the phrase, “Here I come, tomorrow”, if to not make more abundantly clear what she is referencing.



Those bug people are the Termids in the city of Panfrika from New X-Men vol 1 #153. Jean killed them because Sublime Beast claimed they were a genetic obsolescence.



Even without this reference, I say again. White Phoenix exists in the Nexus of All Realities, which gives her access across all space AND time. Saying she isn’t canon would be like saying the Living Tribunal isn’t canon.

Excellent post! You brought the receipts. I've argued that Endsong put HCT in continuity many times and that is because it does. It directly references what Jean did in Here Comes Tomorrow. Some fans don't like that and wish to ignore it, but it is there just like you show in the scans.

Another thing I wanted to add was in Avengers vs X-men at one point Hope says something like "I can be the white phoenix..." well how could she know about the white phoenix? Probably because Cyclops interacted with Jean as the White Phoenix in the last issue of Endsong. That's my best explanation anyway.

JDW on twitter (back when he was on it) had stated a couple times that Jean had a role in Cyclops staying with Emma (because of what Jean did at the end of Here Comes Tomorrow) though I wish this would be said on panel or have Jean remember that experience. But the panels in Endsong that you highlighted will probably be it. And it is enough honestly.

In Phoenix Resurrection the Phoenix referenced Jean's time as White Phoenix when it shows Jean in the white phoenix costume when the Phoenix says something like they can transcend this place. This also puts Jean as White Phoenix in continuity. There is also the time in X-men Forever when Jean goes into the past and is in her afterlife (or by the retcon Phoenix's afterlife...as white phoenix and experiences the conversation with Death from the classic backstory). So I think the White Phoenix of the Crown is pretty solid though it may or may not be something Jean directly remembers but it was part of her experience as the Phoenix.

Edit: Jean/Phoenix in HCT says "The Termid species had an inbuilt genetic obsolescence... no future no loss." So for those that weren't aware the reference to Here Comes Tomorrow in Phoenix Endsong was more than Jean saying "I can see myself doing it again..here I come tomorrow".

[Conor]

And a T-Rex and Sabertooth Tiger.



But I agree with you in that the real kicker is that one of the first hosts of the Phoenix Force was a Shi’ar. They killed that Shi’ar’s entire bloodline, save for one member to wield the Phoenix Blade. By all accounts, the Shi’ar are high on hubris if they think killing its favorite genetic lines are what will stop the Phoenix from possessing other hosts.

I’m sorry but the T-Rex wearing it’s own Phoenix outfit is just so funny to me.

[Rift]

I read this thread before going to bed and ended up having a dream about Jean Grey lol

[CoCoBandz]

I read this thread before going to bed and ended up having a dream about Jean Grey lol

Did she do your taxes too?

[Rift]

Did she do your taxes too?

The opposite, actually. She agreed to help us move furniture for an upcoming move, but when she got here, she backed out and said she couldn't do it. We kept arguing with her, saying she could just use her telekinesis to lift everything and it would only take a second. But she played ignorant and pretended she didn't have the power. It was really obvious that she was just being lazy than anything else. She didn't want to commit to the commitment she made. I was really mad in the dream, but now I think it was funny.