The Sassy Southern Brawler ROGUE Appreciation

[DearMachine]

This would be my list of some additional older Rogue recommendations, since I know the Claremont run is massive and daunting, and it took me ages to read through it all:

- Avengers Annual #10: Rogue's first appearance. She fights the Avengers, and basically takes them apart single-handedly.
- Uncanny X-Men #171: Rogue joins the X-Men
- Uncanny X-Men #172-173: Rogue and Wolverine in Japan.
- Uncanny X-Men #235-238: Rogue and Wolverine in Genosha, which is harrowing but excellent.
- Uncanny X-Men #246-257: The Siege Perilous storyline, where Rogue sacrifices herself.
- Uncanny X-Men #269, 274-275: The resolution of the Ms. Marvel storyline. (Also, Rogue and Magneto in the Savage Land, which has some pretty art.)
(I actually really like much of Claremont's early Rogue stuff, but those are some key moments in it.)

Oh, there's also the newer Rogue miniseries, which covers her family background, but which I hesitate to recommend. It's not great IMO.

And these would be some essential Romy stories that haven't been mentioned:
- X-Men #8/9 and Ghost Rider #26/27, which has the infamous picnic and the arrival of Belladonna
- X-Men #24, which is their first uninterrupted date
- Uncanny X-Men #297, which is extremely sweet. It has a great Jubilee/Xavier moment too.
- X-Men #45, which is the first real milestone in the storyline that becomes the Trial of Gambit.

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

Thanks, guys.
I HAVE read No Surrender, but it was before I’d gotten in to the Rogue side of things, so I might go back and do that at some point in the midst of this.
Probably going to finish the 2014 run of X-Factor first. It’s got Gambit’s cats in it. Nobody can compete with Gambit’s cats.

[mikeb]

Are you here now?
First thing I think that needs to come out as far the Carol letter is how Zub feels about Avengers Annual #10. At the end of No Surrender #3, Zub lists his top 5 Avenger stories. Number 4 on the list is Avengers Annual #10. Zub states "The first appearance of Rogue and the New Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, this 40-page masterpiece is jam-packed with action, emotion and some of the best artwork Michael Golden ever put to paper. Every panel is burned into my brain. What I believe needs to come out is what was Carol's mental and emotional state at the time of her encounter with Rogue. Read the last 6 pages of Avengers Annual #10. Then jump ahead 20 years to Kurt Busiek's Avengers Vol 3, #37, where Carol is forced to relive the whole Marcus incident. It states " And she knows...knows how he used his fathers technology to subtly affect her...to make her fall in love. [b] She feels feels hollow and used, and violated and scared and angry. And friendless and alone." My thought is, in the encounter with Rogue in Avengers Annual #10, did Carol trick or manipute Rogue into what happen to deal with what happen to her and begin a new life? Was the outcome she ended up with not what she expected? Here is how I feel it conects to the R&G mini. Go to part 5, where Rogue and Gambit want to return the powers and memories to the couples. Remy states : "You're locked in your own mind an' unsure what's real...I've been where you are..or almost...an' not so long ago. I also know most of you came here to get rid of somethin'...Pretty safe to t'assume dis wasn't how you expected dat to work out. Rogue can return what you lost--powers an' memories--everything. But you don't get to pick an' choose, I'm afraid. It's all or nothing."

[MikaelNovasun]

Are you here now?
First thing I think that needs to come out as far the Carol letter is how Zub feels about Avengers Annual #10. At the end of No Surrender #3, Zub lists his top 5 Avenger stories. Number 4 on the list is Avengers Annual #10. Zub states "The first appearance of Rogue and the New Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, this 40-page masterpiece is jam-packed with action, emotion and some of the best artwork Michael Golden ever put to paper. Every panel is burned into my brain. What I believe needs to come out is what was Carol's mental and emotional state at the time of her encounter with Rogue. Read the last 6 pages of Avengers Annual #10. Then jump ahead 20 years to Kurt Busiek's Avengers Vol 3, #37, where Carol is forced to relive the whole Marcus incident. It states " And she knows...knows how he used his fathers technology to subtly affect her...to make her fall in love. [b] She feels feels hollow and used, and violated and scared and angry. And friendless and alone." My thought is, in the encounter with Rogue in Avengers Annual #10, did Carol trick or manipute Rogue into what happen to deal with what happen to her and begin a new life? Was the outcome she ended up with not what she expected? Here is how I feel it conects to the R&G mini. Go to part 5, where Rogue and Gambit want to return the powers and memories to the couples. Remy states : "You're locked in your own mind an' unsure what's real...I've been where you are..or almost...an' not so long ago. I also know most of you came here to get rid of somethin'...Pretty safe to t'assume dis wasn't how you expected dat to work out. Rogue can return what you lost--powers an' memories--everything. But you don't get to pick an' choose, I'm afraid. It's all or nothing."

I avoided the whole Marcus incident because it was so creepy and twisted. I did not realize that it and her struggle with alcoholism happened before her battle with Rogue. Did Carol know what some of Rogue's abilities were going into their confrontation? It adds a twist to Carol's character, and how she sought to possibly off load her trauma on Rogue. I haven't read MiM, and doubt I will do so. What was in the letter?

[Omegarogue]

Are you here now?
First thing I think that needs to come out as far the Carol letter is how Zub feels about Avengers Annual #10. At the end of No Surrender #3, Zub lists his top 5 Avenger stories. Number 4 on the list is Avengers Annual #10. Zub states "The first appearance of Rogue and the New Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, this 40-page masterpiece is jam-packed with action, emotion and some of the best artwork Michael Golden ever put to paper. Every panel is burned into my brain. What I believe needs to come out is what was Carol's mental and emotional state at the time of her encounter with Rogue. Read the last 6 pages of Avengers Annual #10. Then jump ahead 20 years to Kurt Busiek's Avengers Vol 3, #37, where Carol is forced to relive the whole Marcus incident. It states " And she knows...knows how he used his fathers technology to subtly affect her...to make her fall in love. [b] She feels feels hollow and used, and violated and scared and angry. And friendless and alone." My thought is, in the encounter with Rogue in Avengers Annual #10, did Carol trick or manipute Rogue into what happen to deal with what happen to her and begin a new life? Was the outcome she ended up with not what she expected? Here is how I feel it conects to the R&G mini. Go to part 5, where Rogue and Gambit want to return the powers and memories to the couples. Remy states : "You're locked in your own mind an' unsure what's real...I've been where you are..or almost...an' not so long ago. I also know most of you came here to get rid of somethin'...Pretty safe to t'assume dis wasn't how you expected dat to work out. Rogue can return what you lost--powers an' memories--everything. But you don't get to pick an' choose, I'm afraid. It's all or nothing."

Well, Mike, I'm usually right with you, but this time you're wrong.

Carol had no intention of letting her win, Rogue's power is too much for her, and she had no idea what Rogue could do.

In addition there are at least 4 versions of how the events happened, we all see that Carol's intention was to kill a Rogue (who was still a girl, which speaks very badly of Carol, as a hero and as a person), if Rogue does not she would have taken care of the backs, absorbing in off panel someone with power and strength, at the first blow Carol would have killed Rogue, because as it turned out Carol's intention was to kill Rogue, but Carol got with someone who was much for her, that's why I finished KO in what Rogue took off the glove.

Also it does not make sense of 10 fights, if you do not control the 10 fights you must win them Rogue, regardless of the powerset you have at that time, or if you do not have any, your original powers are too much for Carol.

If it was for what he says, Rogue would not have defeated the psychopath Carol of another dimension, who had the clear intention of killing Rogue, and recently we saw Rogue beating up Carol in AvsX, and that Rogue held back and did not he wanted to leave her in a coma with his asborcion.

I think you have Carol's sympathy (although I do not really share it) and that's why you would like it to be the case, but there are tons of continuity that show you that this did not happen.
___________


The RogueandGambit is not comparable, "Rogue was referring to return everything or nothing, because that's how the Lavish powers work, it has to take all the traumas memories and powers at the same time," Rogue does not have this moment her powers under control to be so, she could have returned the couples their powers, and not return the memories (something that afterwards she could eliminate on her own being in control) because she did it countless times, she could take powers memories, individually, or all at once, and she could return them at will, and the other (powers or memories) remain permanently, so want it, be it memories or powers, but in RandG, Rogue was using the powers of Lavish which are very similar to those of Rogue, but those of Lavish less podereosos, it seems that Lavish can not contain many memories and many powers at once, that is why it is necessary to create those clones that contain memories and memories , what in case of average mutants with a clone enough, but in characters as powerful as Gambit and especially Rogue had to be drained in many sessions, and create many clones, because at one time I could not drain them, Rogue if he could, but Rogue is an unlimited container of energy, something that has been mentioned many times, whereas lavish is not, in addition Rogue many times improves the powers it takes, in the case of lavish it improved them, even more being a power so similar to the originals her.

[Havok83]

I asked in the Dazzler thread but no seemed to know but when was the last time these two interacted? Was there any snark involved?

[Omegarogue]

I avoided the whole Marcus incident because it was so creepy and twisted. I did not realize that it and her struggle with alcoholism happened before her battle with Rogue. Did Carol know what some of Rogue's abilities were going into their confrontation? It adds a twist to Carol's character, and how she sought to possibly off load her trauma on Rogue. I haven't read MiM, and doubt I will do so. What was in the letter?

No, she did not know exactly what the Rogue skills were like, Rogue was being trained, and was like "pupil" to the odd mission with Mystique, like when she met Sunfire.

But his first official mission in the brotherhood was in AvengersA10, and it is clear that no, they did not know each other.

Also Rogue ni siqueira was very trained in the effects of his powers, not even if he knew that he could stay with the poowerset permanently, he only knew that a prolonged contact could be fatal for the other person (Cody who remained in a coma forever and years later). died) so that Rogue herself lacked data on her powers at that time, so that Carol knew better than Rogue how her powers work.

Besides, as I said, they did not know each other.

__________

And in the case of Carol, if she overcame Rogue's off-panel, which I do not believe, Rogue was in low profile until AA10, Carol should be stupid to expose herself to that, knowing the effects that Rogue's powers have on others when she's not in control, leaves them in a painful coma, in addition to how dangerous is a prolonged effect, see Cody Robins, that if you do not cut the contact can result in death.

If that were the case Carol would be insanely stupid.

But as he says it is not the case, the continuity has already told many times this, and in no excena we see Carol restraining herself, rather the opposite.

[Omegarogue]

I avoided the whole Marcus incident because it was so creepy and twisted. I did not realize that it and her struggle with alcoholism happened before her battle with Rogue. Did Carol know what some of Rogue's abilities were going into their confrontation? It adds a twist to Carol's character, and how she sought to possibly off load her trauma on Rogue. I haven't read MiM, and doubt I will do so. What was in the letter?

In the letter we see basically, Carol showing himself as a horrid hero and a terrible human being, asking Wolverine to kill Rogue in her name,

Take into account that Rogue was still a girl in those days, which leaves even more horrible to Carol as a person.

_______________________

I loved ZUUB in Uncaany Avengers but in MIM, it's being horrible at the moment for now.


The 3 most powerful X-Ladys were ridiculously reduced (Storm / Psylocke and Rogue) especially Rogue which is the most powerful of the group. Rogue has a super strength class100 and in the same book his invulnerabildiad is mentioned among his powerset, and we see how a strong one-hitter leaves her unconscious for a long time.

When the blow was not the big deal, I understand if it was a blow that took it out of orbit or did great damage, but it was a blow that barely blew it into the floor (without structural damage to the premises) and Rogue fell asleep, until the half of issue 2, that does not make any sense.

And the worst, this newstrong girl, who is a copy of Storm in appearance but a little more androgynous, because she touch her directly skin to skin and the power of Rogue is not active, it is puzzling this to me, to us er it was a mistake of the artist, but we'll see, for a while Rogue already woke up from her nap XD.

[AppleJ]

I avoided the whole Marcus incident because it was so creepy and twisted. I did not realize that it and her struggle with alcoholism happened before her battle with Rogue. Did Carol know what some of Rogue's abilities were going into their confrontation? It adds a twist to Carol's character, and how she sought to possibly off load her trauma on Rogue. I haven't read MiM, and doubt I will do so. What was in the letter?

Interesting point. I have to think experiencing Carol's trauma and that of other people she has absorbed has had an effect on Rogue. All of those second hand memories, good and bad, must have influenced and colored her own relationship perspectives throughout her life.

[Fokken]

I asked in the Dazzler thread but no seemed to know but when was the last time these two interacted? Was there any snark involved?

I cannot recall them interacting SINCE the Outback era.

I mean, they were both ON Utopia and participated in group stuff like when Juggernaut attacked and whatever but.... yeah. I cannot for the life of me remember them interacting aka talking with their faces to each other since the Outback.

Anyone?

[Havok83]

I cannot recall them interacting SINCE the Outback era.

I mean, they were both ON Utopia and participated in group stuff like when Juggernaut attacked and whatever but.... yeah. I cannot for the life of me remember them interacting aka talking with their faces to each other since the Outback.

Anyone?

Certainly they interacted during the Mojo arc in early Blue team era? Even that was over 25 years ago and would seem an awfully long time with nothing

[Fokken]

Certainly they interacted during the Mojo arc in early Blue team era? Even that was over 25 years ago and would seem an awfully long time with nothing

I mean....maybe? Probably?

See, now I'm picturing their mutual dislike (too strong?) of each other leading to funny moments like one seeing the other turning the corner into the hall they're occupying/going through and then the OTHER one turns around the opposite direction or ducks into an adjacent hall or room JUST to avoid the nonsense pleasantries of "Oh. Hi. Rogue. Hi." and "Yeah. Hey Ali." ha ha

[Omegarogue]

Certainly they interacted during the Mojo arc in early Blue team era? Even that was over 25 years ago and would seem an awfully long time with nothing

Exactly that was the last time they interacted, at least in 616, of course they have been in group batalals, and they lived in utopia, so if or if they should meet face to face and converse, only in off panel.

The last time they were face to face in 616, and I do not think it counts, it was in the aftermath of Necrossha, Arcade selected Aly enemies from the old school and among them was Rogue, but well they really were simulations and it was not Anna really XD.

[mikeb]

No, she did not know exactly what the Rogue skills were like, Rogue was being trained, and was like "pupil" to the odd mission with Mystique, like when she met Sunfire.

But his first official mission in the brotherhood was in AvengersA10, and it is clear that no, they did not know each other.

Also Rogue ni siqueira was very trained in the effects of his powers, not even if he knew that he could stay with the poowerset permanently, he only knew that a prolonged contact could be fatal for the other person (Cody who remained in a coma forever and years later). died) so that Rogue herself lacked data on her powers at that time, so that Carol knew better than Rogue how her powers work.

Besides, as I said, they did not know each other.

__________

And in the case of Carol, if she overcame Rogue's off-panel, which I do not believe, Rogue was in low profile until AA10, Carol should be stupid to expose herself to that, knowing the effects that Rogue's powers have on others when she's not in control, leaves them in a painful coma, in addition to how dangerous is a prolonged effect, see Cody Robins, that if you do not cut the contact can result in death.

If that were the case Carol would be insanely stupid.

But as he says it is not the case, the continuity has already told many times this, and in no excena we see Carol restraining herself, rather the opposite.

Avengers Annual #10 was Rogue and Carol's first meeting? Not according to UXM#182. Rogue tells Michael Rossi when he asks her why she did what she did to Carol "Ingnorace--Ah didn't know the full extent o' my powers. Also--hatred. Vengeance. WE"D FOUGHT A FEW MONTHS EARLIER, Ah'd almost been killed. Ah guess Ah wanted to get even. Ah guess Ah got wish" If what happen in Avengers Annual #10 was not Carol's first encounter Rogue, Carol should have known what she was dealing with and took percautions. The question that needs to be asked is why didn't Carol take percautions? I stand by what I said above.

[mikeb]

I avoided the whole Marcus incident because it was so creepy and twisted. I did not realize that it and her struggle with alcoholism happened before her battle with Rogue. Did Carol know what some of Rogue's abilities were going into their confrontation? It adds a twist to Carol's character, and how she sought to possibly off load her trauma on Rogue. I haven't read MiM, and doubt I will do so. What was in the letter?

The chronology of the events the events you mention goes as follows: The Marcus story is from Avengers vol 1 #197-200 from 1980. Avengers Annual #10 came out in August of 1981. Rogue joins the X-Men in UXM#171 in May of 1983. (Carol leaves the same issue.) Now Carol's struggle with Achoholism did not start until Kurt Busiek's Avengers run starting at the end of 1997. Carol's drinking problem started to manifest itself in Avengers vol 3#4 dated May 1998. Carol was using alcohol as a coping mechanism in part to deal with the loss of her Binary level of power. The letter was basicly Carol being angry about the X-Men taking Rogue in and feeling betrayed. Carol wanted Logan to "Balance the scales", and after what had happen, earth no longer held a place for her. Since it was found among Logan's old belongings, it probably was written around the time of UXM#174-175.