Cosmic Awakened Fear Garou VS Post Crisis Superman

[Nik Hasta]

Mantis isn't anywhere close to Garou in skill.

Cody's point is that Mantis sits a bit outside the standard skill ceiling for martial artists in DC/Marvel not that she is directly comparable with Garou.

Also, I feel like she's less powerful than she used to be, no specific depower but like just being written as less MA focused.

[Sharpandpointies]

Cody's point is that Mantis sits a bit outside the standard skill ceiling for martial artists in DC/Marvel not that she is directly comparable with Garou.

Also, I feel like she's less powerful than she used to be, no specific depower but like just being written as less MA focused.

It's the whole 'we need to get in line with the movies' thing.

[big_adventure]

Cody's point is that Mantis sits a bit outside the standard skill ceiling for martial artists in DC/Marvel not that she is directly comparable with Garou.

Also, I feel like she's less powerful than she used to be, no specific depower but like just being written as less MA focused.

All good, there's just a ludicrous gulf between even Mantis and Val.

It's the whole 'we need to get in line with the movies' thing.

TBF, even well before that they had stopped showing her skill as quite as extreme as it used to be, and focused more on psi abilities. Well, in her relatively few appearances during that time.

But yeah...

[Cody]

Cody's point is that Mantis sits a bit outside the standard skill ceiling for martial artists in DC/Marvel not that she is directly comparable with Garou.

Also, I feel like she's less powerful than she used to be, no specific depower but like just being written as less MA focused.

Exactly. She's no V, but when she is consistently affecting bricks with pressure point bs, and avoiding attacks by "riding their shockwave", then you're not a kungfu expert. You're a master of kung fuckery.

[Cody]

Yeah I mean we still have the asterisk, as always, that we have yet to see Saitama actually exert himself. But being conservative with what we have actually seen so far, and taking into account how stupid strong current Clark is, putting the two in the same tier feels about right to me.

I don't see Saitama even in the same league as current Kal yet. Approaching Nu? Sure, but not the one who matches Nu while on the last dredges of his power.

[Nik Hasta]

Exactly. She's no V, but when she is consistently affecting bricks with pressure point bs, and avoiding attacks by "riding their shockwave", then you're not a kungfu expert. You're a master of kung fuckery.

Yeah but all those feats are from like... more than 15 years ago at this point.

I don't think you can really argue that it's very consistent at this point any more. As Sharp notes, not just the movies but also how her character was handled from like Annihilation onwards.

[Cody]

Yeah but all those feats are from like... more than 15 years ago at this point.

I don't think you can really argue that it's very consistent at this point any more. As Sharp notes, not just the movies but also how her character was handled from like Annihilation onwards.

Oh, I didn't think she has been active much in the comics. A shame they ruined her, it's like comic-book companies can't stand a woman being the number #1 martial artist or something >_>.

[Nik Hasta]

Oh, I didn't think she has been active much in the comics. A shame they ruined her, it's like comic-book companies can't stand a woman being the number #1 martial artist or something >_>.

I wouldn't say they ruined her per say. More just moved her a more psychic/spiritualist direction.

Also, wasn't Gamora meant to be above her in terms of combat and almost certainly still is?

[Captain Morgan]

I don't see Saitama even in the same league as current Kal yet. Approaching Nu? Sure, but not the one who matches Nu while on the last dredges of his power.

Utterly no selling Garou's global distorting attack is pretty good. That plus the gamma burst thing make it feel like even outright planet busting wouldn't especially harm the guy.

To circle back on a point you made a while back about the gamma burst: that wasn't just a fancy name Garou came up. The third person narration of the comic paused to give us a science lesson on what was actually happening.

[Cody]

Utterly no selling Garou's global distorting attack is pretty good. That plus the gamma burst thing make it feel like even outright planet busting wouldn't especially harm the guy.

To circle back on a point you made a while back about the gamma burst: that wasn't just a fancy name Garou came up. The third person narration of the comic paused to give us a science lesson on what was actually happening.

Yeah but that was to explain it's function, not the scale. The actual event(iirc) is more destructive than a hypernova. I'm not convinced he is at that scale. And if we can agree than he and post crisis supes are in the same strength ball park, how is he coming close to Nu Supes(who should be a casual planet busty himself), let alone Rebirth Supes who makes Nu Supes look like a dandy?

[Cody]

I wouldn't say they ruined her per say. More just moved her a more psychic/spiritualist direction.

Also, wasn't Gamora meant to be above her in terms of combat and almost certainly still is?

I don't recall Gamora ever having Mantis' level of h2h, she's more of a sword and gun expert.

[big_adventure]

Yeah but that was to explain it's function, not the scale. The actual event(iirc) is more destructive than a hypernova. I'm not convinced he is at that scale. And if we can agree than he and post crisis supes are in the same strength ball park, how is he coming close to Nu Supes(who should be a casual planet busty himself), let alone Rebirth Supes who makes Nu Supes look like a dandy?

We don't agree that Garou is at post-crisis Supes level, I don't think. He's way past that level. Two full upgrades ago, he distorted the planet by punching Saitama through it while also breaking through dimensions. That's already around or past Post Crisis Supes' level. And Garou is hugely massively beyond that now.

And when the comic goes out of the way to explain that the energy he's releasing is, well, what it's presented to be, we have no reason to believe that it's not at that level. Saitama himself, who is blessed with some pretty ludicrous danger sense nonsense whatever, thought that even the scatter from the attack would destroy the planet, hence him jumping up to ensure that none of it even grazes the Earth. That's honestly beyond Rebirth or Nu Supes. Rebirth's best feat is, what, messing up a planet by jumping off of it when he's running pretty low? That's below "unintentional grazing from my attack will destroy the planet", wouldn't you say?

[Captain Morgan]

Yeah but that was to explain it's function, not the scale. The actual event(iirc) is more destructive than a hypernova. I'm not convinced he is at that scale. And if we can agree than he and post crisis supes are in the same strength ball park, how is he coming close to Nu Supes(who should be a casual planet busty himself), let alone Rebirth Supes who makes Nu Supes look like a dandy?

Because I think that Post Crisis Clark is comparable but loses to Garou and Saitama is stronger than both of them.

Post Crisis Clark << Garou <<<<Saitama < Nu Clark.

I also don't think Rebirth Clark is drastically more powerful than Nu. Their feats feel roughly consistent with each other when you consider the effort associated with each. The star chain feat is the only thing pushing past what Nu Clark could plausibly do, and Rebirth Clark has nothing else I'm aware of on that level himself. Rebirth is a composite of Nu and Post Crisis, and Nu does the heavy lifting on that composite. (You could argue post cris was the more durable half, though.)

[big_adventure]

I wouldn't say they ruined her per say. More just moved her a more psychic/spiritualist direction.

Also, wasn't Gamora meant to be above her in terms of combat and almost certainly still is?

Gamora was always meant to be above her (the "most dangerous woman in the universe"), she just wasn't by feats.

[Captain Morgan]

We don't agree that Garou is at post-crisis Supes level, I don't think. He's way past that level. Two full upgrades ago, he distorted the planet by punching Saitama through it while also breaking through dimensions. That's already around or past Post Crisis Supes' level. And Garou is hugely massively beyond that now.

And when the comic goes out of the way to explain that the energy he's releasing is, well, what it's presented to be, we have no reason to believe that it's not at that level. Saitama himself, who is blessed with some pretty ludicrous danger sense nonsense whatever, thought that even the scatter from the attack would destroy the planet, hence him jumping up to ensure that none of it even grazes the Earth. That's honestly beyond Rebirth or Nu Supes. Rebirth's best feat is, what, messing up a planet by jumping off of it when he's running pretty low? That's below "unintentional grazing from my attack will destroy the planet", wouldn't you say?

I think that's underselling Rebirth a bit. He wasn't "running pretty low," he was on the last dregs of power to the extent he couldn't even fly. And arguably his best feat is breaking chains used to tow stars around. Rebirth Superman also does things like chills on exploding planets without getting his hair mussed.

Saitama himself will probably be in that ball park once we confirm the gamma burst didn't hurt him, but I don't think Garou is there yet. Or at the very least I don't see Garou withstanding bloodlusted Rebirth Clark's attacks long enough to adapt. But give them another 3 chapters and who knows?