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  1. #136
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    “We wouldn’t want to go back and age Christopher Robin – why would we want to read stories about Christopher Robin in his 30s?”

    Disney produces a film about precisely that, demonstrating that people do want to experience stories about Christopher Robin in his 30s.
    Nobody wants stories about an older Christopher Robin. What Disney did was make A story.

    There's a pretty big difference between showing an occasional one and done future tale and making the regular character that way.

    People were fine with Robin Williams being an older Peter Pan in Hook, but nobody wants the Continuing Adventures of Middle Aged Peter Pan. Or to use a more comic accurate example, the Dark Knight Returns is a classic, but you'll notice that in all this time nobody has ever tried to make the regular continuity Batman into a senior citizen.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Nobody wants stories about an older Christopher Robin. What Disney did was make A story.

    There's a pretty big difference between showing an occasional one and done future tale and making the regular character that way.

    People were fine with Robin Williams being an older Peter Pan in Hook, but nobody wants the Continuing Adventures of Middle Aged Peter Pan. Or to use a more comic accurate example, the Dark Knight Returns is a classic, but you'll notice that in all this time nobody has ever tried to make the regular continuity Batman into a senior citizen.
    “Senior citizen”

    Thanks for the great example of the reductio ad absurdum fallacy!

    Funny enough, Lost Girls is coming soon, exploring an aging Wendy…

    This is also a great example of the straw man fallacy. Note I never said anything about continuity (besides, classic Pooh is episodic, not serial, so comparing the two is apples to hammers) just pointing out Conway was wrong about people being interested in stories about Christopher Robin in their 30s, which made Christopher Robin relevant for a new audience and extended the longevity of the character in that he was given a reason to be in the public consciousness.
    Last edited by TinkerSpider; 06-21-2022 at 07:22 AM.

  3. #138
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Nobody wants stories about an older Christopher Robin. What Disney did was make A story.

    There's a pretty big difference between showing an occasional one and done future tale and making the regular character that way.

    People were fine with Robin Williams being an older Peter Pan in Hook, but nobody wants the Continuing Adventures of Middle Aged Peter Pan. Or to use a more comic accurate example, the Dark Knight Returns is a classic, but you'll notice that in all this time nobody has ever tried to make the regular continuity Batman into a senior citizen.
    Batman Beyond exists. And sure, Bruce wasn't THE Batman in that series, but the Spidey franchise already has another kid who got bitten by a spider and is becoming more popular as the years go on. There's a reason Insomniac began their game series with a post-College Peter Parker.
    Last edited by Kevinroc; 06-21-2022 at 08:30 AM.

  4. #139
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Batman Beyond exists. And sure, Bruce wasn't THE Batman in that series,
    And Spider-girl exists. Neither of them have taken the place of their main counterpart though so I don't see why you bring them up at all.

  5. #140
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    And Spider-girl exists. Neither of them have taken the place of their main counterpart though so I don't see why you bring them up at all.
    I notice you omitted the entire point of the post about Miles Morales.

  6. #141
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I’m sure Gwen, Captain Stacy, DeWolff, Marla, etc. all feel the same way. /s

    I’m not saying it’s Peter’s fault that he looks incompetent, but it just goes to show how hollow a lot of his progress is.
    To be honest that's the kind of thinking that lead to "no one dies" and that wasn't a healthy mindset for him at the time.

    Like, at what point does a Superhero stopping a bad guy and saving people not matter? Even if there is a human cost.

    He only looks incompetent when writers write him as needing a lot of help or not being able to do anything on his own.

    Would you want him to focus on rehabilitating or de-powering them? Would you be fine with them getting their powers back afterwards?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    That film's existence doesn't mean he was wrong. Given his statements, I doubt Conway would think that film is the definitive version of the character. Adult Spider-Man also exists, but he doesn't think that's the definitive version of that character.
    Which is weird when he's written so much adult Peter.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    To be honest that's the kind of thinking that lead to "no one dies" and that wasn't a healthy mindset for him at the time.

    Like, at what point does a Superhero stopping a bad guy and saving people not matter? Even if there is a human cost.

    He only looks incompetent when writers write him as needing a lot of help or not being able to do anything on his own.

    Would you want him to focus on rehabilitating or de-powering them? Would you be fine with them getting their powers back afterwards?

    Which is weird when he's written so much adult Peter.
    He looks incompetent because catching the bad guys doesn’t solve anyone’s problems. Bennett still dies (if he doesn’t turn more evil than before) and Doc Ock gets off scott free. GG continually shows up just to make his life miserable.

    He’s pretty much in the same place as where he started.

    While from a Deconstructionist’s standpoint, that’s what made Spider-Man appealing to begin with, it’s not very good in the long run.

    If his villains actually stayed defeated for once, then it wouldn’t be as glaring, but Vulture was practically cured of his cancer because the writers didn’t want to commit to his replacements.

    It says a lot when heroic and neutral characters are considered to be worth less than villainous ones.

  8. #143
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    So, I'm curious as to what you would have Spider-man do to make sure his enemies are no longer a threat anymore.

  9. #144
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    He looks incompetent because catching the bad guys doesn’t solve anyone’s problems. Bennett still dies (if he doesn’t turn more evil than before) and Doc Ock gets off scott free. GG continually shows up just to make his life miserable.

    He’s pretty much in the same place as where he started.

    While from a Deconstructionist’s standpoint, that’s what made Spider-Man appealing to begin with, it’s not very good in the long run.

    If his villains actually stayed defeated for once, then it wouldn’t be as glaring, but Vulture was practically cured of his cancer because the writers didn’t want to commit to his replacements.

    It says a lot when heroic and neutral characters are considered to be worth less than villainous ones.
    Isn't this the problem with the entire Superhero genre, though? Like, Batman with his entire Rogues Gallery, Flash with his Rogues, etc.

    Do you think all Superheroes are incompetent and stagnant by that measure because they don't put any kind of permanent stop to their villains? Even though they almost always stop them and sometimes that can make a difference to someone or something?

    Is it wrong to want to do more with established villains?

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Which is weird when he's written so much adult Peter.
    A gig is a gig. Gerry Conway has never been in a position where he could de-age Spider-Man.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    A gig is a gig. Gerry Conway has never been in a position where he could de-age Spider-Man.
    And thank goodness for it otherwise we would've missed out on some great Gerry Conway stories .

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