It’s funny that so many people think Spider-Man works best as a teen...

[Mistah K88]

One thing that must be noted about being a child/teen is that you have more people supervising you. In college you can practically only attend 3 classes and still pass it, not so much in high school, as then you would have to worry about truancy. That said, I suppose life isn't all that different from your mid to late 20's to your early to mid 30's. However the older you are, the more your job/career matters.

[Lee]

Yes, it would have. It would have broken the suspension of disbelief for him to be a high schooler forever. Because unlike Charlie Brown, his stories are serial. The genre matters and you just admitted they are not the same genre.

"Serial" isn't the genre. "Super-hero" is the genre.

Yes, you have never engaged on the point that Spider-Man - the entire Marvel U - is a serial story in which time passes and one story leads into and affects the next. Probably because if you did engage on that point, it would negate your stance.

Comics and cartoons can have stories where one event leads to the next, but the characters remain the same age.

The most recent DuckTales series had a lot of episode to episode continuity. Despite celebrating three Christmases, the kids remained the same age throughout the show.

Spider-Girl does not take place in real time. So the length of real time is irrelevant. Instead, it ran under different titles for 130+ issues, with breaks in publication.

May celebrating her birthday is an indication time passes in the Marvel U. But birthday celebrations are not the only indication. MJ was pregnant, Benjy was born and became a toddler. That indicates May are around 18 at the time her series ended.

I remember Tom or Ron being asked about her age once, probably on the Spider-Girl message board. Their response was along the lines of "We saw her 16th birthday, and she hasn't had a birthday since". The series ran for over 140 issues (including the Spectacular Spider-Girl digital series) with May as a teenager. I'm sure Tom and Ron could have gone even longer with the teenage super-hero premise if the series wasn't cancelled.

Mary Jane's pregnancy means nothing for the ages of the other characters. Mary Jane's original pregnancy that lead to May didn't follow the rules of real time. MJ announced she was pregnant whilst Ben Reilly was the Scarlet Spider. Ben took over as Spider-Man, and one of his earliest stories was set during the Christmas season. Ben Reilly was killed off and Mary Jane went into labour in a story set during Halloween. So was Mary Jane pregnant for 10+ months? The answer is "Don't think about it, it doesn't matter".

In Spider-Girls, May is referenced as older than Annie, who is 16 at the time - but May’s original age was 15. Another indication May ages.

I'm not arguing against the fact that certain Marvel characters have been aged up. I'm arguing against this statement:

He can only be in high school for so long before it breaks suspension of disbelief. By the time he worries about who to ask to his fifth prom or is excited about his tenth summer break vacation, the jig is pretty much up.

Spider-Girl was a teenager in high school for over 140 issues without it being a problem. Ultimate Peter Parker was a teenager in high school for over 160 issues without it being a problem. DC Comics' Tim Drake has been a teenager for 33 years (including over 200 issues of Robin/Red Robin) without it being a problem.

How many issues or years published would it take for it to become a problem?

[TinkerSpider]

"Serial" isn't the genre. "Super-hero" is the genre.

Yes, Spider-Man belongs to the serialized superhero genre.

Charlie Brown belongs to the comedic gag episodic genre.

Thanks for confiming my point and agreeing Spider-Man and Charlie Brown are NOT analogous and it is fallacious to posit that they are the same type of "cartoon" characters.

Comics and cartoons can have stories where one event leads to the next, but the characters remain the same age.

The most recent DuckTales series had a lot of episode to episode continuity. Despite celebrating three Christmases, the kids remained the same age throughout the show.

We've already established Spider-Man is not a cartoon character ala a Disney or Looney Tunes character, above. (Another way to look at it is called world building. All fictional worlds have rules, just like our real world has rules of physics, human behavior, etc. The Marvel U world has long been established as one long continuity in which stories build on one another and time passes. Not as fast as the real world, but passes nonetheless.)

I remember Tom or Ron being asked about her age once, probably on the Spider-Girl message board. Their response was along the lines of "We saw her 16th birthday, and she hasn't had a birthday since".

Meta doesn't matter. Readers should not have to scour the internet for what creators say in order to read a story. That answer also depends on when they were asked, and besides, other creators have used her since.

Mary Jane's pregnancy means nothing for the ages of the other characters. Mary Jane's original pregnancy that lead to May didn't follow the rules of real time. MJ announced she was pregnant whilst Ben Reilly was the Scarlet Spider. Ben took over as Spider-Man, and one of his earliest stories was set during the Christmas season. Ben Reilly was killed off and Mary Jane went into labour in a story set during Halloween. So was Mary Jane pregnant for 10+ months? The answer is "Don't think about it, it doesn't matter".

First, December to October is ten months.

Second, human pregnancy lasts 40 weeks - it's actually closer to ten months than nine - with 42 weeks still considered normal term.

Third, first babies are often late and can arrive two weeks later or so post-term.

So yes, the timing can work.

How many issues or years published would it take for it to become a problem?

I've answered this many, many times. When he starts to repeat life events like prom, more than three summer breaks, his mentor dies more than two times, he fights the Green Goblin for the eighth time but is still a high school freshman, he moves from tenth grade to eleventh grade more than once, etc. When he is no longer coming of age but has come of age, because coming of age is not only age but weight of experience.

(May I also point out that Ultimate Spider-Man is very much a decompressed story and some of the issues barely cover thirty minutes in Peter's life, if that. So no, it doesn't strain disbelief only a year or so went by in that run, since each issue features such a small slice of his life. And even then, they killed off Peter - yes, primarily to introduce Miles but also because there's only so much story in high school. And another reason why Miles was 13, to give them more room in the teenage years before the inevitable aging up).

But I will agree you are not alone in your beliefs. This why so many people dislike Dan Slott's run. Dan Slott set Peter's mentality at around 15 and he did treat Peter as if he were a cartoon Wile E. Coyote, falling off a cliff only to bounce back in the next scene absolutely no worse for wear. For example, Peter jumping from a space satellite to a pinpoint landing in Paris with little physical harm. He did break the rules of reality and the suspension of disbelief - and threw readers out of the story as a consequence. His stories had no heft or weight; they did not matter to the characters - and by extension to the readers - in the long run. Otto steals Peter's body and does immoral things in it? Peter's only reaction is "Otto is a jerk." That's not in any way, shape, or form a believable or understandable human reaction. It's nonsensical in its ridiculousness. But it is what a cartoon character who has little to no versimilitude would say.

So I understand if someone believes Slott's run is the apex instead of the nadir of a Spider-Man's history, one might think like you do. And perhaps you might enjoy Marvel's All Ages books, as they do contain the unchanging, bounces right back to factory settings no matter what happens, version that you seem to prefer.

However, there are decades of 616 stories that demonstrate Peter is a serialized character who ages, grows and changes over time. Along with the rest of the 616 universe.

Yes, I know you disagree. Again, so stipulated. I've explained myself ad nauseam without my posts apparently being read, so further discourse probably wouldn't be productive. * shrug* Feel free to have the last word!

One thing that must be noted about being a child/teen is that you have more people supervising you. In college you can practically only attend 3 classes and still pass it, not so much in high school, as then you would have to worry about truancy. That said, I suppose life isn't all that different from your mid to late 20's to your early to mid 30's. However the older you are, the more your job/career matters.

This is a great point.

[Naz]

But I will agree you are not alone in your beliefs. This why so many people dislike Dan Slott's run. Dan Slott set Peter's mentality at around 15 and he did treat Peter as if he were a cartoon Wile E. Coyote, falling off a cliff only to bounce back in the next scene absolutely no worse for wear. For example, Peter jumping from a space satellite to a pinpoint landing in Paris with little physical harm.

But Dan slott and others are following Tom Breevort Manifesto on spiderman.

[Huntsman Spider]

But Dan slott and others are following Tom Breevort Manifesto on spiderman.

Which is built on a fundamental misunderstanding of Spider-Man's character and story. That said, I did like your earlier post comparing and contrasting him with fellow societal outcast heroes, the X-Men, who formed a nation for their people while Peter Parker had continued to stagnate and even regress in some ways as a character.

[Reilly]

Spider-Man is a character who works all the time whatever his age is. The principles are the same.

[Huntsman Spider]

Spider-Man is a character who works all the time whatever his age is. The principles are the same.

And why? Because his actual theme --- that with great power, there must also come great responsibility --- is applicable and true in just about any kind of setting. Power may come with perks, yes, but it also comes with moral obligations to oneself, to others in one's life, to the larger world around one, in terms of how it gets used. That's something truly "relatable."

[Mercwmouth12]

And why? Because his actual theme --- that with great power, there must also come great responsibility --- is applicable and true in just about any kind of setting. Power may come with perks, yes, but it also comes with moral obligations to oneself, to others in one's life, to the larger world around one, in terms of how it gets used. That's something truly "relatable."

Responsibility

Capture.JPG

[Lee]

Yes, Spider-Man belongs to the serialized superhero genre.

Charlie Brown belongs to the comedic gag episodic genre.

Thanks for confiming my point and agreeing Spider-Man and Charlie Brown are NOT analogous and it is fallacious to posit that they are the same type of "cartoon" characters.

They're both cartoons that only age up when the people in charge of the stories decide to age them up, and whose stories cannot exist within a realistic timeline.

The story that introduced Silk established that Peter became Spider-Man 13 years ago. There's no way the entirety of the Spider-Man saga up until that point could realistically have happened within the span of 13 years. It's as far-fetched as any other cartoon character's longevity.

Meta doesn't matter. Readers should not have to scour the internet for what creators say in order to read a story. That answer also depends on when they were asked, and besides, other creators have used her since.

In Web Warriors May called herself a high schooler. It was published in 2016. At that point May had been in high school for 18 years. Readers didn't have a problem suspending their disbelief. They accepted that she was still a high schooler because the comic said that she was still a high schooler.

First, December to October is ten months.

Second, human pregnancy lasts 40 weeks - it's actually closer to ten months than nine - with 42 weeks still considered normal term.

Third, first babies are often late and can arrive two weeks later or so post-term.

So yes, the timing can work.

You've misunderstood. Mary Jane announced she was pregnant long before the Ben Reilly Spider-Man Christmas story.

MJ announced her pregnancy in Spectacular Spider-Man #220. Then there were months of big Clone Saga story arcs (The Gift, Mark of Kaine, The Trial of Peter Parker, Planet of the Symbiotes, Maximum Clonage etc.). By Spectacular Spider-Man #229 Mary Jane was visibly pregnant enough to have gotten a job modelling maternity wear. Then Peter quit being Spider-Man. Then Ben Reilly had some solo Scarlet Spider adventures. Then Ben Reilly had a handful of Spider-Man adventures. Then Ben Reilly had some adventures around the Christmas season in "Media Blizzard" and the Spider-Man Holiday Special 1995. Many adventures later, Mary Jane went into labour on Halloween.

Mary Jane's pregnancy lasted well over 10 months. The timeline doesn't work. It's all cartoon nonsense. The readers rolled with it.

I've answered this many, many times. When he starts to repeat life events like prom, more than three summer breaks, his mentor dies more than two times, he fights the Green Goblin for the eighth time but is still a high school freshman, he moves from tenth grade to eleventh grade more than once, etc. When he is no longer coming of age but has come of age, because coming of age is not only age but weight of experience.

(May I also point out that Ultimate Spider-Man is very much a decompressed story and some of the issues barely cover thirty minutes in Peter's life, if that. So no, it doesn't strain disbelief only a year or so went by in that run, since each issue features such a small slice of his life. And even then, they killed off Peter - yes, primarily to introduce Miles but also because there's only so much story in high school. And another reason why Miles was 13, to give them more room in the teenage years before the inevitable aging up).

If you go back and re-read the first 160 issues of Ultimate Spider-Man and all of Ultimate Marvel Team-Up, you'll see references to the passage of time between stories that don't add up. Even with Bendis' decompressed writing, all those stories and the gaps between them couldn't possibly fit within a single calendar year. But the readers rolled with it. (And that's without even getting into The Ultimates 2 taking place one year after the first volume, and Peter remaining the same age in Ultimate Spider-Man.)

MC2 Spider-Girl ran for almost as many issues and didn't have decompressed writing. There's no way all of those stories could realistically have happened in just a year or two. The readers rolled with it.

So I understand if someone believes Slott's run is the apex instead of the nadir of a Spider-Man's history, one might think like you do. And perhaps you might enjoy Marvel's All Ages books, as they do contain the unchanging, bounces right back to factory settings no matter what happens, version that you seem to prefer.

This isn't about preferences. I'm not arguing preferences. I'm not inviting you to make assumptions about my preferences.

All I'm saying is that your "He can only be in high school for so long before it breaks suspension of disbelief" argument is bogus. Readers of American super-hero comics are willing to accept a character remaining in a certain age range and having an implausible number of adventures and life events.

However, there are decades of 616 stories that demonstrate Peter is a serialized character who ages, grows and changes over time. Along with the rest of the 616 universe.

I know Spider-Man has been aged up. I am familiar with Spider-Man.

"He can only be in high school for so long before it breaks suspension of disbelief" is the statement I disagree with. Marvel could have kept him in high school for decades, and readers would have rolled with it, just like they did with hundreds of other comic characters. They could keep Kamala Khan in high school for decades and readers will roll with it.

[Mercwmouth12]

They're both cartoons that only age up when the people in charge of the stories decide to age them up, and whose stories cannot exist within a realistic timeline.

The story that introduced Silk established that Peter became Spider-Man 13 years ago. There's no way the entirety of the Spider-Man saga up until that point could realistically have happened within the span of 13 years. It's as far-fetched as any other cartoon character's longevity.



In Web Warriors May called herself a high schooler. It was published in 2016. At that point May had been in high school for 18 years. Readers didn't have a problem suspending their disbelief. They accepted that she was still a high schooler because the comic said that she was still a high schooler.



You've misunderstood. Mary Jane announced she was pregnant long before the Ben Reilly Spider-Man Christmas story.

MJ announced her pregnancy in Spectacular Spider-Man #220. Then there were months of big Clone Saga story arcs (The Gift, Mark of Kaine, The Trial of Peter Parker, Planet of the Symbiotes, Maximum Clonage etc.). By Spectacular Spider-Man #229 Mary Jane was visibly pregnant enough to have gotten a job modelling maternity wear. Then Peter quit being Spider-Man. Then Ben Reilly had some solo Scarlet Spider adventures. Then Ben Reilly had a handful of Spider-Man adventures. Then Ben Reilly had some adventures around the Christmas season in "Media Blizzard" and the Spider-Man Holiday Special 1995. Many adventures later, Mary Jane went into labour on Halloween.

Mary Jane's pregnancy lasted well over 10 months. The timeline doesn't work. It's all cartoon nonsense. The readers rolled with it.



If you go back and re-read the first 160 issues of Ultimate Spider-Man and all of Ultimate Marvel Team-Up, you'll see references to the passage of time between stories that don't add up. Even with Bendis' decompressed writing, all those stories and the gaps between them couldn't possibly fit within a single calendar year. But the readers rolled with it. (And that's without even getting into The Ultimates 2 taking place one year after the first volume, and Peter remaining the same age in Ultimate Spider-Man.)

MC2 Spider-Girl ran for almost as many issues and didn't have decompressed writing. There's no way all of those stories could realistically have happened in just a year or two. The readers rolled with it.



This isn't about preferences. I'm not arguing preferences. I'm not inviting you to make assumptions about my preferences.

All I'm saying is that your "He can only be in high school for so long before it breaks suspension of disbelief" argument is bogus. Readers of American super-hero comics are willing to accept a character remaining in a certain age range and having an implausible number of adventures and life events.



I know Spider-Man has been aged up. I am familiar with Spider-Man.

"He can only be in high school for so long before it breaks suspension of disbelief" is the statement I disagree with. Marvel could have kept him in high school for decades, and readers would have rolled with it, just like they did with hundreds of other comic characters. They could keep Kamala Khan in high school for decades and readers will roll with it.

But now you're in a path that you can't go backwards from. Different from the old stories is now you have 2 characters Miles and Gwen as spider characters and are now the teenage characters while Peter is in his 20s and can have him have a kid. Get a decent job. Him being a teen can can be done in a mini or book set in highschool or whatever. It really doesn't matter with the what ifs. It's only moving forward. Slowly but there's a progression

[Lee]

But now you're in a path that you can't go backwards from. Different from the old stories is now you have 2 characters Miles and Gwen as spider characters and are now the teenage characters while Peter is in his 20s and can have him have a kid. Get a decent job. Him being a teen can can be done in a mini or book set in highschool or whatever. It really doesn't matter with the what ifs. It's only moving forward. Slowly but there's a progression

I'm not saying that Marvel should de-age anyone. I'm saying that readers of American super-hero comics will accept the characters being whatever age the comic says they are. If a character is aged up from high school to college, they'll accept it. If a character is in high school for decades, they'll accept that too.

[Mercwmouth12]

I'm not saying that Marvel should de-age anyone. I'm saying that readers of American super-hero comics will accept the characters being whatever age the comic says they are. If a character is aged up from high school to college, they'll accept it. If a character is in high school for decades, they'll accept that too.

Then they can accept again him being married and having a kid

[PCN24454]

Responsibility

Capture.JPG

Yeah, there’s nothing more responsible than always having an excuse for why you can’t do better.

/s

[Mercwmouth12]

Yeah, there’s nothing more responsible than always having an excuse for why you can’t do better.

/s

asa..jpg

Sure why not

[WebLurker]

I kinda think that, as much as people say they want change, they would hate it if it actually happened. Heck, I think most of us actually want things frozen at our favorite status quo.