Thought experiment -How would the DCEU have shaped up had Bale agreed to return?

[bat39]

So, way back in the mid-2010's, DC/WB apparently wanted Christian Bale to return as Batman in the movie that eventually became BvS. I dunno how concrete any of this is (I remember an article from around that time claiming he'd been offered 50 million to return but turned it down!) but its nonetheless an idea that is out there and possibly had some truth to it.

Looking back, how do you think the DCEU would have panned out had Bale agreed to return as Batman?

I guess the big question is whether he'd be playing a new version of the character or the same version from the Nolanverse? But realistically, I think it'd likely have been the Nolanverse character. Which of course raises big questions about how they'd get Bruce back into the cowl without cheapening the ending of the trilogy. It also raises such thorny questions as ''Why did Clark not intervene during Bane's occupation of Gotham?'' and a ton of other such questions (well, Clark was hiding his powers at the time and not really acting as a hero except on a very small scale so I guess there's an explanation there?) In general, it'd destroy the sanctity of the idea that the Nolanverse was a 'grounded' world devoid of any supernatural/alien/sci-fi elements.

But let's just say that they decided to brazen it out...BvS would likely have been a very different movie. I just can't see Bale's Bruce planning to kill Superman the way Affleck's Bruce did. Or being as easily manipulated by Lex Luthor. I also don't exactly see Clark Kent/Superman being so critical and hostile of Batman, the man who (so people thought) sacrificed himself to save Gotham as opposed to Batman the violent vigilante branding criminals. Its possible that the film would have been a more straightforward team-up, with Superman and Batman being maybe vary of each other at first, but not really hostile and possibly becoming close friends.

One thing's for certain, Batman would have been even more dominant in the team-up film and the subsequent Justice League movie. I mean, Batfleck pretty much became the face of the franchise anyway, but Bale's Batman would have utterly dominated it and easily overshadowed Cavill's Superman and Gadot's Wonder Woman. Remember, Bale may still be loved as Batman today, but in those years immediately following TDKR, back when Michael Keaton was still just a distant memory and Robert Pattison as Batman wasn't even a pipe-dream, Bale as Batman was a legend. He would easily have been to the DCEU what RDJ was to the MCU, and then some. In such a scenario, would the other heroes have even been able to stand out? Would TPTB have the faith that they could carry their own films?

I'm interested in how stuff like Suicide Squad or Birds of Prey would have gone. Come to think of it, would we even have a Joker in SS? After all, whoever was cast to play the Joker (be it Jared Leto or anyone else) would, notionally at least, be stepping into the shoes of friggin'Heath Ledger's take on the character? I mean, effectively they'd be replacing Heath Ledger. Would any actor take the risk? Would WB? And along with the Joker, the bigger question mark is Margot Robbie's Harley Quinn. Ledger's Joker really didn't seem like the guy to have someone like Harley around, so would Harley's backstory have to be reworked to minimize her connection to the Joker? Could Margot Robbie's Harley, being as tonally at odds with the Nolanverse as she is, even have existed?

Last but not least, there's the question of returning Nolanverse characters. Would Michael Caine have been back as Alfred? Gary Oldman as Jim Gordon? Morgan Freeman as Lucius Fox? More pertinent to the plot, would we have Joseph Gordon-Levitt back as John Blake and would he have been Batman for any length of time? What about Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle? Would Bruce still be with Selina? Would she be part of the Justice League, or at any rate, a prominent character in these movies?

I can go down this rabbit hole forever. I think the DCEU could in the short term have been more successful, riding on the coattails of the Nolanverse. It might even have been less gritty (say what you will, the Nolanverse Batman films were fairly optimistic in their outlook, and Bale's Batman isn't a particularly dark version of the character). But in the long-term, it would have been even more Batman-centric (Batman-dependent rather), and a lot of the DCEU's 'stars' today perhaps wouldn't have risen to prominence.

Thoughts?

[marhawkman]

Nolanverse Batman would have been less insane. Maybe even relateable?

[Vakanai]

Worse. Bale wouldn't have changed anything, and the change between the grounded tone of his films to the larger DC universe would've been pretty bad. It'd be like if in the upcoming Joker sequel they decided to introduce Batmite. While I'm sure some here would prefer that, it just wouldn't be right.

[kingaliencracker]

Bale has said he was never asked to return. Reportedly, Nolan told WB he did not want his trilogy to be part of any extended universe, and they obliged.

[Ascended]

Wouldn't have changed much, if anything.

The problem with the DCEU was never the casting. It was always the people behind the scenes and the corporate suits who had no idea how to use the IP properly. And they wouldn't have treated any of the other characters any better, or used a different approach with them, had Bale still played Batman.

We would have gotten some new Bale-Bat films, which might have been nice, except WB likely would have forced other characters into the movies, which may have ruined a second Bale trilogy.

No, there is no salvaging the DCEU. Things at the top were a complete mess, the people in charge rotated in and out too fast to truly course correct anything, and they were all horrible at the job anyway. Better for all of us that Bale and his films are unconnected to anything else.

[Confuzzled]

Unpopular opinion: I felt Affleck was better than Bale, at least when it came to playing Bruce Wayne.

[John Venus]

Wouldn't have worked any better. Bale is a better actor but you would still have Snyder at the helm who is all style and very little substance.

Plus doing BvS would have been committing to more solo films which is something I don't think Bale was ever interested in and I don't think anyone would want a DC Cinematic Universe with no solo Batman movies at all.

The problem with Affleck was, as he admitted in an interview, he took on the role because he thought it was something he had to do. It didn't work out and coupled with his own personal problems and his passion projects failing, lead to him bowing out of the role. If Bale took on the role just for the money and no real creative interest, it would have lead him down a similar path of frustration. So I would say he dodged a bullet there.

Imagine if they had cast a Batman actor who wanted the role, was truly committed to it, had a real creative interest in it and managed to stick around until his solo movie was made, the DCEU as a whole would have been in a better shape.

[Alan2099]

We would have pretty much got the same movie, but Batman would have had a much stupider voice and more people would be complaining about how the older movies and the newer ones didn't match up.

[bat39]

Unpopular opinion: I felt Affleck was better than Bale, at least when it came to playing Bruce Wayne.

While I personally prefer Bale, I do love Affleck's performance as well...I just don't feel they're very comparable though. They played pretty different versions of the character.

Affleck's Batman was someone who started out as Batman with noble intentions. But twenty years of a futile crusade against crime and corruption that also cost him his partner/foster son took its toll on him and led him down an increasingly darker path - culminating in his decision to kill Superman because ''there's a 1% chance that he's a threat''. He's pulled back from the brink of absolute darkness when he's reminded of Clark's humanity (in the infamous Martha scene, which I'll defend to the death) and is then inspired by Clark's sacrifice to rediscover his early idealism and work towards forming the Justice League to defend humanity.

Bale's Batman has a somewhat different arc, albeit similar in part. He had his moral crisis much earlier in life, when he considered killing Joe Chill. But that apart, he's always had a moral clarity about his crusade. Moreover, his crusade actually succeeded - he wasn't interested in fighting a never-ending battle against crime and corruption, but he simply wanted to inspire the ordinary citizens of Gotham, including honest officials like Harvey Dent and Jim Gordon, to rise up and take back their city. Yes, the loss of Rachel sent him into a downward spiral, but he still tried to do good in the world through the energy project before even that had to be shelved. And he returns to stop Bane (twice) with nothing but the noblest of intentions.

My point, especially when it came to this thread, is that Bale's Batman, if they kept his characterization in the DCEU consistent with the Nolanverse, wouldn't have plotted to kill Superman.

[Restingvoice]

"So, way back in the mid-2010's, DC/WB apparently wanted Christian Bale to return as Batman in the movie that eventually became BvS

Looking back, how do you think the DCEU would have panned out had Bale agreed to return as Batman?"

Well, for starters... instead of Jason Todd or Dick Grayson dying, it's Levitt's Robin character who died, forcing Bruce-Bale to come back, with Selina alongside. IF they're doing a continuation of that world.

If not, then it's just the same story anyway, since it's determined by Snyder and not the actor. Bale would just be playing the character.