"Flame On!" Johnny Storm: The Human Torch Appreciation 2022

[Crimz]

With Slott leaving, I wonder if he’ll fix Johnny’s issue of being trapped in his flame on state or if he’ll just leave it for the next writer.

When he's "cured", I hope he keeps this level of power. It's most effective he's been in years and I think this boost is what he needs to mat h his contemporaries. Of course there should be some downsides/ side effects to using this power like how he loses conscious when he nova's, but this should be his new upper limit as nova has lost its potency.

[Thirteen]

My favorite era for Johnny was the Bronze Age when he was wearing his red costume -- a variation on the costume worn by the original Human Torch. I was sad when Medusa left and Johnny went back to the standard blue uniform.

Always interesting to see members of the F4 in individualized costumes, even moderate ones like the aforementioned red suit, given their signature look is to be uniform.
https://www.cbr.com/fantastic-four-h...s-love-hate/4/




On the topic of the perpetual immaturity of Johnny Storm: Has he ever been pushed into a mentoring position with younger characters? Would be an interesting story thread to show some underlying maturity as he deals with actual adolescents - Champions, New Warriors etc for an arc or so, kind of like the move of making Hawkeye the leader of the Thunderbolts back in the day because he was one of the original generation reformed "villain" character.

[Digifiend]

lol at Reed's comment there about reading. If their powers were based on what they read as kids, Reed must've been a reader of Police Comics, which starred Plastic Man.

And no I can't think of any times where Johnny has mentored kids away from the FF. He wasn't even suggested when Power Pack needed a mentor in Outlawed, and half of the Powers were in the Future Foundation, so that's actually odd, that they never considered the Fantastic Four. I don't see him mentoring the Champions any time soon, since not only do most of the individual members already have one (Captain Marvel, Iron Man, etc), as a group their former teammate Cyclops can serve as one too. The New Warriors don't need one, they're all adults themselves and maybe only five years younger than Johnny, who, don't forget, started out at age 15 like Spider-Man did. The Young Avengers are basically like the Champions in that regard, they're mostly legacies who already have mentors. Collectively they'd consider Jessica Jones one too, as she helped them when they were first starting out (while pregnant, no less!).

[Darkshadow]

Johnny was 100% a mentor for Fantastic Force. This was probably the most mature version of Johnny we had seen. He was married, and he was put in charge of a team of teenagers trying to find their place in the world.

[CaptCleghorn]

On the topic of the perpetual immaturity of Johnny Storm: Has he ever been pushed into a mentoring position with younger characters? Would be an interesting story thread to show some underlying maturity as he deals with actual adolescents - Champions, New Warriors etc for an arc or so, kind of like the move of making Hawkeye the leader of the Thunderbolts back in the day because he was one of the original generation reformed "villain" character.

Johnny and Clint have a lot in common and Johnny dealing with kids could be a very nice fit. Johnny is still a kid in many way despite his character's age and understanding those qualities in himself and being able to help others deal with them would be very helpful. Unlike the rest of the team, Johnny never had to actually grow up. Ben, Reed, and Sue have all had life experiences which pushed them to need to deal with life on their own and Johnny's missed that.

[Darkshadow]

No Johnny hasn't missed that. I literally just said he was a mentor to a teenager team called Fantastic Force. Don't move on with an entirely missed blip in Johnny history and pontificate about his missed maturing opportunities.

[CaptCleghorn]

No Johnny hasn't missed that. I literally just said he was a mentor to a teenager team called Fantastic Force. Don't move on with an entirely missed blip in Johnny history and pontificate about his missed maturing opportunities.

Ben had to deal with a rough childhood and gang activity. Reed was buried in scientific work and had to develop his own maturing mechanism to deal with that. Sue had to support and raise Johnny after their parents died. Compared with Johnny, the other three had considerably more challenging situations. It's obvious that Johnny (and pretty much everybody) gets some opportunities, but compared with the other three FF members, he's had far less opportunity. The blip (good word for this, BTW) of Fantastic Force is far from what the others had to do.

[Iron Maiden]

Ben had to deal with a rough childhood and gang activity. Reed was buried in scientific work and had to develop his own maturing mechanism to deal with that. Sue had to support and raise Johnny after their parents died. Compared with Johnny, the other three had considerably more challenging situations. It's obvious that Johnny (and pretty much everybody) gets some opportunities, but compared with the other three FF members, he's had far less opportunity. The blip (good word for this, BTW) of Fantastic Force is far from what the others had to do.

Johnny hasn't always had it easy either. Are you forgetting the horrific fate he endured in the Negative Zone? And this was done to him over and over again. (Fantastic Four #600)

[CaptCleghorn]

Johnny hasn't always had it easy either. Are you forgetting the horrific fate he endured in the Negative Zone? And this was done to him over and over again. (Fantastic Four #600)

Not at all. But what Johnny got in the Negative Zone was torture, plain and simple. That's not a way to bring someone to a more mature state. If it was, abused children would be far better developed emotionally. Sue, Reed, and Ben needed to develop the talents to deal with life as adults in our society. Those three certainly have varying degrees of that but with Johnny, he took the rocket flight as a HS student. One could offer the underdeveloped decision making processes in the adolescent brain being held back because of the cosmic rays for Johnny just as Ben's aging was halted in his Thing form. I don't see Marvel ever going with this, but it's certainly a topic which can come up on a comic book message board.

[Iron Maiden]

Not at all. But what Johnny got in the Negative Zone was torture, plain and simple. That's not a way to bring someone to a more mature state. If it was, abused children would be far better developed emotionally. Sue, Reed, and Ben needed to develop the talents to deal with life as adults in our society. Those three certainly have varying degrees of that but with Johnny, he took the rocket flight as a HS student. One could offer the underdeveloped decision making processes in the adolescent brain being held back because of the cosmic rays for Johnny just as Ben's aging was halted in his Thing form. I don't see Marvel ever going with this, but it's certainly a topic which can come up on a comic book message board.

I wouldn't characterize what Johnny went through as child abuse. This would be more akin to what happens to POWs. I don't pretend to be an expert in psychology but I would think there are more issues at play with child abuse...betrayal of trust by one's parent/caregiver for one. And for another thing, this occurs when Johnny is an adult. So I don't think your reference applies. I'm not on board with cosmic rays stunting Johnny's maturation either. Johnny's behavior patterns show much more of a maturation process back in the Lee/Kirby days. IMO the main issue is the propensity of far too many writers to ignore that.

[CaptCleghorn]

I wouldn't characterize what Johnny went through as child abuse. This would be more akin to what happens to POWs. I don't pretend to be an expert in psychology but I would think there are more issues at play with child abuse...betrayal of trust by one's parent/caregiver for one. And for another thing, this occurs when Johnny is an adult. So I don't think your reference applies. I'm not on board with cosmic rays stunting Johnny's maturation either. Johnny's behavior patterns show much more of a maturation process back in the Lee/Kirby days. IMO the main issue is the propensity of far too many writers to ignore that.

You are extremely correct in differentiating child abuse and the torture Johnny went through. I apologize for drawing too powerful a tie between the two. However, the point I wanted to make is that neither is helpful in emotional development.

The stunting of Johnny's maturation was something I pulled out of my ass. I don't like the idea either, but it could explain the decades of poor handling of Johnny's development.

[Iron Maiden]

You are extremely correct in differentiating child abuse and the torture Johnny went through. I apologize for drawing too powerful a tie between the two. However, the point I wanted to make is that neither is helpful in emotional development.

The stunting of Johnny's maturation was something I pulled out of my ass. I don't like the idea either, but it could explain the decades of poor handling of Johnny's development.

Our best hope is that the next writer doesn't follow that pattern. I wonder what the "bible" is like that Marvel gives to new writers or do they even bother? I would hope they would at least read the first 200 issues of the FF.

I don't mind when Johnny is the source of comedy relief. Let them focus on Franklin and Valeria to show their growing pains and other phases of development before adulthood. I think they should show Johnny working with Val and Franklin more. In a lot of families, there's always the favorite uncle that is able to relate to the kids in a different way from a father.

[Darkshadow]

Our best hope is that the next writer doesn't follow that pattern. I wonder what the "bible" is like that Marvel gives to new writers or do they even bother? I would hope they would at least read the first 200 issues of the FF.

I don't mind when Johnny is the source of comedy relief. Let them focus on Franklin and Valeria to show their growing pains and other phases of development before adulthood. I think they should show Johnny working with Val and Franklin more. In a lot of families, there's always the favorite uncle that is able to relate to the kids in a different way from a father.

That right there would be the best character development for Johnny. The favorite Uncle. The guy who's not perfect, doesn't pretend to be, but also offers a bit of growing pain related advice rooted in "don't make the mistake I did".

When Johnny came back from the grave, he was profoundly different. And it was profound because it was different. He was mature. He was a leader. He sluffed off the trappings that didn't matter. "Hold my Annihilus". Then he was reverted to sleeping with their team's worst enemy's girl.

Bring back the Future Foundation, and make Johnny the leader?

[Iron Maiden]

I'd vote for that idea!

[cmore]

I wonder how much of Johnny's immaturity has to do with him being dumped by pretty much every woman that he had deep feelings for. Experiencing that kind of rejection and heartbreak can wreak havoc on ones self esteem. Johnny seems to be at his best when he's in life threatening situations and fighting bad guys, but when it comes to relationships, he may not be able to take them seriously, because in the past they've always ended badly.

I wish Wyatt would come back and two could have an adventure together. One that doesn't involve any toxic relationships. Maybe Johnny should tell Reed that he wants his ship back.