Spider-Man: The Lost Hunt

[xpyred]

Looks like Gregor is returning.

[Webhead]

The fact JMD refers to Peter and Kraven as people, instead of characters, really speaks of the commitment he shows in his stories.

[TinkerSpider]

https://www.cbr.com/spider-man-krave...eis-interview/

What I find interesting is that Marvel apparently approached JMD to write this story. He didn't pitch it. Maybe it's synergy/laying groundwork for the upcoming Kraven film, but still, interesting choice considering "the marriage never ever took place and Mary Jane was never ever pregnant" attitude until now. I do wonder how much Quesada departing has to do with the apparent softening toward mentioning and now even portraying the marriage.

[WebLurker]

Because fans would have recognised it as bulls*it and wouldn't have supported it. The marriage and pregnancy was a crucial component of the Clone Saga, if you're not telling that chapter accurately, you're not telling it at all.

And, again. Quesada was probably out the door by this point.

Think is, I'm not sure marriage fans are the majority, as we might want to believe (there was clearly enough support that Marvel hasn't needed to undo OMD).

[Matt Rat]

Think is, I'm not sure marriage fans are the majority, as we might want to believe (there was clearly enough support that Marvel hasn't needed to undo OMD).

We are not a minority and never have been.

The original Renew Your Vows mini-series from Slott was a solid hit, so that proves you wrong right there. The audience and the appetite is there, and it would not cost the book sales if the marriage were to come back tomorrow.

Spencer's run was a pretty good seller too, despite relying on continuity and status quos spanning decades prior. People aren't stupid, they collect back issues, they do the research to keep up with what the book is trying to sell them on presently. Comics are not just disposable fluff you necessarily read once and shelve indefinitely.

Marvel are releasing a new collection of the Wedding sometime this year, clearly they want to educate current readers on what has come before, and going the extra mile with Lost Hunt, a 616 pre-OMD story that includes MJ expecting Baby May, should be considered a big deal. It's going to get people curious about the baby and what happened to it, and with the tease at the end of Spencer's run, who knows where that curiosity will lead them.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Dunno; they did and do allow quite a few adaptations and AU series to depict MJ as the endgame (the latter being stuff that's going to reach more people and impact what general audiences think about the character.

Emphasis on "adaptations and AU". This is the first in-canon-to-616 story to allow them married. It proves my point that this is different from the other examples.

[Lukmendes]

Still, wonder why they didn't just ask the story to reflect the revisions?

Probably to give marriage fans something so they can hope it'll come back eventually in current continuity.

What I find interesting is that Marvel apparently approached JMD to write this story. He didn't pitch it. Maybe it's synergy/laying groundwork for the upcoming Kraven film, but still, interesting choice considering "the marriage never ever took place and Mary Jane was never ever pregnant" attitude until now. I do wonder how much Quesada departing has to do with the apparent softening toward mentioning and now even portraying the marriage.

JMS mentioned on twitter once that Marvel was kinda undoing OMD, and fact that Spencer's run back in Last remains had flashbacks to Spectacular#200 where MJ is explicitly called his wife was indication of that.

I don't think Marvel is really willing to undo OMD, at least for now, and they still would rather not have the marriage happen again (Well, at least for now too), but saying it happened at some point doesn't seem to be as taboo.

Think is, I'm not sure marriage fans are the majority, as we might want to believe (there was clearly enough support that Marvel hasn't needed to undo OMD).

If marriage fans are the majority then they're very stupid, considering they keep giving Marvel money even though they all supposedly hate all of this lol.

We are not a minority and never have been.

The original Renew Your Vows mini-series from Slott was a solid hit, so that proves you wrong right there. The audience and the appetite is there, and it would not cost the book sales if the marriage were to come back tomorrow.

I mean, it replaced ASM at the time, Superior kept selling well despite how many people bitched about it too (And from what I hear, it was going to be even longer, but Marvel told Slott to bring Spidey back 'cause of TASM movies), and that's the thing, ASM always sells, a lot of times more than events even lol.

Obviously there is a big interest in marriage, otherwise Marvel would've gotten rid of MJ long ago, but how many are interested in it is hard to measure, whatever it is, it's enough for Marvel to tease its return once in a while, but that amount and being the actual majority aren't the same thing.

[WebLurker]

We are not a minority and never have been.

The original Renew Your Vows mini-series from Slott was a solid hit, so that proves you wrong right there. The audience and the appetite is there, and it would not cost the book sales if the marriage were to come back tomorrow.

The RYV mini was the only game in town at the time and written by a guy who was pretty popular across the board, so of course it sold and had a wide audience. When I said "minority," I was specifically thinking of fans who boycott stuff without the marriage period, not fans who prefer it but will accept the other status quo. The point is that the "never OMD-ers" seem to be their own subset.

And yeah, Spider-Man sells, so yeah, the marriage would sell if it came back. However, the issue is that, as we've seen over the years, getting rid of the marriage did nothing sales-wise overall. That's the bottom line. However popular MJ is with fans in general and her status as the franchise's OTP, there are not enough paying fans to move the needle and influence Marvel to undo OMD and restore the marriage. We are the minority.

Spencer's run was a pretty good seller too, despite relying on continuity and status quos spanning decades prior. People aren't stupid, they collect back issues, they do the research to keep up with what the book is trying to sell them on presently. Comics are not just disposable fluff you necessarily read once and shelve indefinitely.

Not everyone is the same kind of fan. Also, just because they buy stuff that depends on older stories doesn't mean that they would also want those older stuff to come back. It's irrelevant to the question.

Marvel are releasing a new collection of the Wedding sometime this year, clearly they want to educate current readers on what has come before, and going the extra mile with Lost Hunt, a 616 pre-OMD story that includes MJ expecting Baby May, should be considered a big deal. It's going to get people curious about the baby and what happened to it, and with the tease at the end of Spencer's run, who knows where that curiosity will lead them.

Yet another dog whistle for marriage fans? Old story, bro.

As we've seen, while Marvel doesn't want the marriage canon, they have no problem selling it. I will concede that Marvel is no longer as hostile to MJ and the marriage as they used to be (the current ASM crap notwithstanding), but that's not the same thing as bringing it back. Unless something happens, I think Lost Hunt is going to be a one-off.

Emphasis on "adaptations and AU". This is the first in-canon-to-616 story to allow them married. It proves my point that this is different from the other examples.

But wouldn't the whole OMD retcon apply here? ("All marriage stories were 'actually' about Peter and MJ as domestic partners.")

Probably to give marriage fans something so they can hope it'll come back eventually in current continuity.

If so, it's working around here, at least.

If marriage fans are the majority then they're very stupid, considering they keep giving Marvel money even though they all supposedly hate all of this lol.

I think there is a difference between those for whom it's a deal breaker and who prefer it but can live without it.

[RJT]

Emphasis on "adaptations and AU". This is the first in-canon-to-616 story to allow them married. It proves my point that this is different from the other examples.

And the Symbiote Spider-Man series featured Peter and Felicia together. Marvel has realized that it can sell miniseries by veteran creators that take place in previous time periods. See X-men:Legends. I don’t frequent the X-Men boards but I doubt people read the Louise Simonson-Walt Simonson X-Factor issues of Legends and took it as a sign that the Krakoa era was over and Scott and Jean were going to go back to pretending to be mutant hunters again.

Why is Marvel releasing a miniseries featuring the Clone Sage era Peter and MJ? Because it’s been a quarter century and the people who read those comics as kids are now nostalgic for that period. Marvel is not sending out secret signs through these miniseries. They are just selling comic books.

[The BaRoN]

Sounds like this is the only Spider-Man comic I’ll be buying from now on. They seem to have lots of these retro mini series going at the moment for people who remember the good interesting days.

Ben Reilly Spider-Man
New Fantastic Four
Venom lethal protector
Genis vell captain marvel
Gambit
Silver surfer rebirth
X-treme X-men
X-men 92

[Celgress]

Sounds like this is the only Spider-Man comic I’ll be buying from now on. They seem to have lots of these retro mini series going at the moment for people who remember the good interesting days.

Ben Reilly Spider-Man
New Fantastic Four
Venom lethal protector
Genis vell captain marvel
Gambit
Silver surfer rebirth
X-treme X-men
X-men 92

Well, with our boy Spidey when they've publically admitted they cannot or rather will not move the character forward nostalgia is all we really have...

[WebLurker]

Guess I was right that this miniseries was not the start of undoing OMD and fixing things.

[Lukmendes]

As we've seen, while Marvel doesn't want the marriage canon, they have no problem selling it. I will concede that Marvel is no longer as hostile to MJ and the marriage as they used to be (the current ASM crap notwithstanding), but that's not the same thing as bringing it back. Unless something happens, I think Lost Hunt is going to be a one-off.

I wonder how MJ's treatment now is compared with BND era...

If so, it's working around here, at least.

It always does.

Back when ASM#796 came out, and it ended with Spidey and MJ having a date in her apartment with her even saying she missed the Spidey ****, I could tell immediately that it was bait, but the more desperate marriage fans were hopeful that it was coming back, or that at least Spidey and MJ are gonna date again.

I unfortunately ended up being right, and the very next issue has MJ saying "Nope, can't do it, **** outta my aparment" lol.

Then ASM#1 vol 5 ends with them together again, and while I don't like how it happened (Since just a few issues before MJ rejected him), it was surprising, and pretty nice since Spencer wrote 'em well the few times they did show up together.

I think there is a difference between those for whom it's a deal breaker and who prefer it but can live without it.

There is, it's just that Matt Ratt talks like marriage fans will bring the big money if they get married again or whatever, when the way people like the relationship is really not the same lol.

Sounds like this is the only Spider-Man comic I’ll be buying from now on. They seem to have lots of these retro mini series going at the moment for people who remember the good interesting days.

Ben Reilly Spider-Man
New Fantastic Four
Venom lethal protector
Genis vell captain marvel
Gambit
Silver surfer rebirth
X-treme X-men
X-men 92

From what I hear New Fantastic Four is boring.

Gambit was pretty fun, and Gambit fans in particular are really liking it since he's finally being written well, 'cause apparently he's been getting the short end of the stick for a long time.

Didn't check out Ben's comic, but Ben fans do like and what I saw did look interesting.

Guess I was right that this miniseries was not the start of undoing OMD and fixing things.

It'd be more surprising if you were wrong to be fair, nostalgia bait is something companies like to do lol.

[WebLurker]

I wonder how MJ's treatment now is compared with BND era...

From what I've heard, sounds kinda samey (them broken up and clearly no plans for a reunion in the near future). My impression with BND, though, was that the message that was trying to be sent was "the marriage was always a mistake and MJ should not be Spider-Man significant other." While, as we've see, Marvel still does not like the marriage at all in terms of "canon," they have done a lot of AUs where Peter and MJ being a couple has been treated with respect and MJ is still the go-to love interest for adaptations and tie-ins (my understanding is that Marvel would have to sign off on them and, while few depict them married, most of them, like the PS2 video game franchise, do depict them as essentially being the endgame, if that makes any sense).

It always does.

Back when ASM#796 came out, and it ended with Spidey and MJ having a date in her apartment with her even saying she missed the Spidey ****, I could tell immediately that it was bait, but the more desperate marriage fans were hopeful that it was coming back, or that at least Spidey and MJ are gonna date again.

I unfortunately ended up being right, and the very next issue has MJ saying "Nope, can't do it, **** outta my aparment" lol.

Then ASM#1 vol 5 ends with them together again, and while I don't like how it happened (Since just a few issues before MJ rejected him), it was surprising, and pretty nice since Spencer wrote 'em well the few times they did show up together.

Weren't those by different writers?

There is, it's just that Matt Ratt talks like marriage fans will bring the big money if they get married again or whatever, when the way people like the relationship is really not the same lol.

Pretty sure Marvel would've backed off if marriage-only fans had enough clout by voting with their wallets.

It'd be more surprising if you were wrong to be fair, nostalgia bait is something companies like to do lol.

Admittedly, I do think Barry Allen coming back in DC is proof that nothing is set in stone (and I do wonder how things will change when readers who grew up with the marriage are in charge of Marvel, just like how OMD was partially the result of people who grew up with single Spider-Man), but I think Marvel has consistently shown that they do not want this to be part of 616.

[Matt Rat]

Guess I was right that this miniseries was not the start of undoing OMD and fixing things.

Creators have lied at panels before

The fact Lost Hunt is the first marriage story to be set in 616 since 2007 rather than an AU is more telling