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  1. #76

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    Having read just The Judas Contract and nothing else for me, it's like coming in the last 15 minutes of Return of the Jedi (or any film trilogy) not only having not having seen the rest of that movie or its two previous movies and not understanding what is going who's who and etc.

    While George Perez was one certainly of the greatest but his Nightwing costume looks like Dick Greyson should be getting high at an 80s nightclub not battling supervillains.

  2. #77
    The Spirits of Vengeance K7P5V's Avatar
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    ^^^For what it's worth, the year was 1984 & it never really bothered me. In fact, I think it's cool. But yeah, your mileage may vary...

  3. #78
    Extraordinary Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    ^^^For what it's worth, the year was 1984 & it never really bothered me. In fact, I think it's cool. But yeah, your mileage may vary...
    I always desliked the lack of an utility belt in most of Dick's ´post-Robin costumes. He was supposed to store most of his gadgets in the bracelets here.

    Peace

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    As a black kid living outside USA, Cyborg's speech never bothered me since I just accepted that black people in other countries just had different slang to my local one.

    As for the female costumes, I'm surprised the cartoon got away with Starfire's and Raven's costumes since most superheroines were covered up at that time.
    Kory's outfit in the show wasn't that different from what was seen on other cartoons at the time like Winx Club. As long as she wasn't showing sideboob, she was clear.

    As for Raven, this was the time when Wonder Woman's classic outfit was considered acceptable for kids.

  5. #80
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberstrike View Post
    Having read just The Judas Contract and nothing else for me, it's like coming in the last 15 minutes of Return of the Jedi (or any film trilogy) not only having not having seen the rest of that movie or its two previous movies and not understanding what is going who's who and etc.

    While George Perez was one certainly of the greatest but his Nightwing costume looks like Dick Greyson should be getting high at an 80s nightclub not battling supervillains.
    Judas Contract was built up since NTT vol. 1 no. 2 so I wouldn't blame you for feeling like that.

    Also Beast Boy brings up Star Wars a lot in the early issues.
    "Cable was right!"

  6. #81
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    Who is this Beast Boy you speak of? I only know of Changeling!

    As far as costumes go, while I can't defend the first Nightwing costume that Dick Grayson wore or what Jericho had on, you have to put it in context. George Perez wasn't designing these costumes in a vacuum. Go look at what other super-heroes were wearing at this time and then get back to me.

    I also should point out that TALES OF THE NEW TEEN TITANS 44 (July 1984) was during their gap year--when TALES had all new material and wasn't reprinting work from the Baxter book. That means it was pencilled and inked for a newsprint comic--and the art didn't look like what you guys are all seeing now. Unfortunately, most people never see the art as it appeared in the original comics, where it somehow looks better even though the format is of lesser quality.

    As well, Mike DeCarlo was now inking Perez and not Romeo Tanghal. Over in THE NEW TEEN TITANS (1984 series), George Perez started out doing both pencils and inks and his art is designed to take advantage of the new format. Tanghal resumes inking with issue 3 of that new series, but Perez leaves after issue 6 to go and do CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. I feel like that book cost us a lot since it took George away for an extended period and it drained Marv Wolfman of his creative energy. Even though CRISIS was supposed to remake the universe in the image of the Titans, it actually did more harm to the Titans.

  7. #82
    Extraordinary Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberstrike View Post
    Having read just The Judas Contract and nothing else for me, it's like coming in the last 15 minutes of Return of the Jedi (or any film trilogy) not only having not having seen the rest of that movie or its two previous movies and not understanding what is going who's who and etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Judas Contract was built up since NTT vol. 1 no. 2 so I wouldn't blame you for feeling like that.
    Yeah, you missed out on a LOT of build up. Judas Contract was "just" the pay-off. Plus, there is one thing that people who didn't read TNTT at the time it was being published certainly never got. The Kitty Pryde comparrison.

    Peace
    Last edited by Nomads1; 07-02-2022 at 09:08 AM.

  8. #83
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    Screenshot 2022-07-02 094622.jpg
    this book says otherwise
    Last edited by Rac7d*; 07-02-2022 at 08:46 AM.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Who is this Beast Boy you speak of? I only know of Changeling!

    As far as costumes go, while I can't defend the first Nightwing costume that Dick Grayson wore or what Jericho had on, you have to put it in context. George Perez wasn't designing these costumes in a vacuum. Go look at what other super-heroes were wearing at this time and then get back to me.

    I also should point out that TALES OF THE NEW TEEN TITANS 44 (July 1984) was during their gap year--when TALES had all new material and wasn't reprinting work from the Baxter book. That means it was pencilled and inked for a newsprint comic--and the art didn't look like what you guys are all seeing now. Unfortunately, most people never see the art as it appeared in the original comics, where it somehow looks better even though the format is of lesser quality.

    As well, Mike DeCarlo was now inking Perez and not Romeo Tanghal. Over in THE NEW TEEN TITANS (1984 series), George Perez started out doing both pencils and inks and his art is designed to take advantage of the new format. Tanghal resumes inking with issue 3 of that new series, but Perez leaves after issue 6 to go and do CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. I feel like that book cost us a lot since it took George away for an extended period and it drained Marv Wolfman of his creative energy. Even though CRISIS was supposed to remake the universe in the image of the Titans, it actually did more harm to the Titans.
    Agreed on all this. Crisis really took the wind (= Perez) out of DC's best-selling book at the time and New Teen Titans, later New Titans, never really recovered from that, with just a couple of glimpses of the past glory in the form of Who is Wonder Girl? and Titans Hunt.

    That said, the George Perez of those initial Baxter series issues inking himself is probably my favourite Perez of all time. Which is a hard call to make because basically all of his work is so good all the time. But the level of detail when inking himself, the characters, the page compositions in that Terror of Trigon saga are just breathtaking.

  10. #85
    Extraordinary Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny X-Man View Post
    Agreed on all this. Crisis really took the wind (= Perez) out of DC's best-selling book at the time and New Teen Titans, later New Titans, never really recovered from that, with just a couple of glimpses of the past glory in the form of Who is Wonder Girl? and Titans Hunt.

    That said, the George Perez of those initial Baxter series issues inking himself is probably my favourite Perez of all time. Which is a hard call to make because basically all of his work is so good all the time. But the level of detail when inking himself, the characters, the page compositions in that Terror of Trigon saga are just breathtaking.
    Actually, COIE robbed Titans of more then just its star artist and co-plotter. I actually think that Baxter Titans was doing fine without Perez, with a fantastic Titans of the Myth arc illustrated by the awsome Jose Luiz Garcia Lopez and a couple of other good stories. And over in the now retitled Tales of the New Teen Titans, it also was doing fine with art by Buckler and DeCarlo and stories that tied up a few loose ends. Sure, Marv was going a bit overboard with his soap-opera dialogue and romances (George appearently seemed to rein him in a bit), however, it was when they decided to split the team, and kill Kole, both events directly tied to and showcased in COIE, that, IMHO, the book started to loose its foward momentum. Barreto was a pretty dawm fine artist, but the stories started to become formulaic and Marv seemed lost in his own plots. He didn't seem to know what to do. Great set-ups started to have poor pay-offs, such as in the Mento and the Hybrid storyline or the Red Star/People's Heroes clash and the Cyborg and the Titans West hints that went nowhere, he honestly didn't seem to know what he wanted to do with the Wildebeest, and stupid, annoying characters, such as Godiva and Danny Chase, started to hog the spotlight. Yes things did heat up a bit when George returned, however, he soon left, and, although I do consider the original Titans Hunt a very underrated classic, Marv started to loose focus again, over-prolonging the stories and introducing too many things at once, and the, later known, strain with his editors started to reflect on his work. Titans dragged on aimlessly, and, without a strong co-collaborator, not even a total revamp of the team prevented the book from ending with #125. A shame, really.

    Peace
    Last edited by Nomads1; 07-03-2022 at 07:53 AM.

  11. #86
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post

    Screenshot 2022-07-02 094622.jpg
    this book says otherwise
    Well this was a very skewed, in-character, take on everything.

  12. #87
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    Well admittedly there have been poor choices made during this run like not trying harder with Terry Long or upstaging Nightwing's debut with Jericho's costume in a slightly smug tone (or at least that's what I get from those two panels), and then there's the whole Deathstroke/Terra/Changeling fiasco that pretty much consumed the book for quite a while.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragolord09 View Post
    Well admittedly there have been poor choices made during this run like not trying harder with Terry Long or upstaging Nightwing's debut with Jericho's costume in a slightly smug tone (or at least that's what I get from those two panels), and then there's the whole Deathstroke/Terra/Changeling fiasco that pretty much consumed the book for quite a while.
    I'd argue that Wolfman tried too hard with Terry Long, among other poor choices.

  14. #89
    Extraordinary Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post

    Screenshot 2022-07-02 094622.jpg
    this book says otherwise
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well this was a very skewed, in-character, take on everything.
    I don't know what this is. Can anybody help?

    Peace

  15. #90
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Yeah, re-upload it so not only ants can read it.
    "Cable was right!"

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