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  1. #46
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    Most boys 12 years and up bought the book to drool over Starfire and Wonder Girl.

    I personally found Gar and Terra's jokes hilarious at the time. I laughed for weeks over 'balloon bod'.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    Most boys 12 years and up bought the book to drool over Starfire and Wonder Girl.

    I personally found Gar and Terra's jokes hilarious at the time. I laughed for weeks over 'balloon bod'.
    Gar and Terra always have good bantz on the rare moments they're on the same roster, see New 52 Ravagers

  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Interesting. Usually I hear the opposite from the fans of the show. That Starfire was so naive and innocent on the show that they didn't like how sexualized she was in the comics.
    To be fair, the biggest complaints I've heard of comics Starfire from people who watched the show was related to New 52 Starfire, and in her case they went too far with that ridiculous "costume".

    Why do you think Starfire was worse off on the show?
    Looking back at it, she's probably the least developed character in that cartoon among the main characters, never getting a season dedicated to her sucked.

    As a character herself, I think she's kinda annoying, but that definitely ain't a popular opinion lol.

    I do find it stupid that DC may try to pick her cartoon traits and give to her comic version though, they're pretty incompatible...
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  4. #49
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Well, she still had a revealing outfit and solid figure (just look at that episode with her in a dress) if not as revealing as her Perez look.

    And with a dash more innocence than the sexual forwardness of her comic self, although still just as loving and spirited.

  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    To be fair, the biggest complaints I've heard of comics Starfire from people who watched the show was related to New 52 Starfire, and in her case they went too far with that ridiculous "costume".

    Looking back at it, she's probably the least developed character in that cartoon among the main characters, never getting a season dedicated to her sucked.

    As a character herself, I think she's kinda annoying, but that definitely ain't a popular opinion lol.

    I do find it stupid that DC may try to pick her cartoon traits and give to her comic version though, they're pretty incompatible...
    Woflman and Perez were trying to do a body positivity and sex positive message even when it got pervy, you could still see their intent. Nu52 Starfire was just pure male fantasy shit where Starfire was just a plain ol' sex object.

    I have seen some fans say that if you list all the Starfire focused episodes it add up to the same number as the characters who got a whole season focused on them. Even the characters who got a season focused didn't have every episode focused on them, some of the other characters fot spot lighted as well.

    Unpopular opinion but I thought Palmiotti and Connor's Starfire series did a good job of blending in classic Starfire and comic book Starfire into a single character. The characterization was fine, it was the plots that felt superfluous.

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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    The way Vic originally talked in the comic didn't make sense to a lot of us at the time. They tried to explain it as Vic trying to sound street--but it was pretty clumsy.
    I didn't read the early NTT stuff until maybe ten years ago, and as clumsy and weird as the dialogue is, Vic's kind of worked for me in a way because he's *not* from the street. He *is* faking that dialogue. Vic grew up, far as I know, in a nice neighborhood with two successful, semi-wealthy parents. Hanging with a bunch of thugs, trying to fit in with other black kids from the other side of town? Vic wasn't one of them, he was the rich kid rebelling against his parents. Of course he's not going to sound legit. He didn't know the Struggle. Which isn't to say that Vic was totally out of touch with his Blackness or never experienced racism or anything, but you can always tell the difference between someone who's really from the street, and someone who's pretending. So Wolfman's clunky ass dialogue fit, after a fashion.

    I knew a kid like Vic back in the day, which is probably why Vic's dialogue worked for me. He grew up in the country out east somewhere, mostly white town, adopted by a fairly successful couple, and my friend was just one of the local guys; flannel shirts and country music and big pickup trucks, or whatever country folk get up to I guess. When he moved to a big city it was a huge culture shock for him, and he told me about the difficulties he had relating to other black kids who had grown up poor, hungry and harassed in the inner city.

    Vic reminds me of my friend in that regard. Maybe I got part of Vic's backstory wrong, there's a lot of holes in my collection of NTT and I haven't read those issues in years, but as far as I know he grew up about as far from the street as you can get, so his slang being off-center was right and correct, yknow?
    Last edited by Ascended; 06-27-2022 at 01:40 PM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

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  7. #52
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    In Canada, when I was in high school in the 1970s, while we were multi-cultural there weren't a lot of African-Americans--most Black kids came from other countries and had their own culture. But because there were so many cool, Black guys on T.V.--these kids responded to peer pressure by acting "Black."

    Wolfman and Perez created a problem for themselves with Victor Stone. On the one hand, they wanted to create a character who related to the Black experience in the United States. But on the other hand, Victor's circumstances--being born into a family of scientists that worked for S.T.A.R.--should mean he was upper class. The well-meaning white writers felt that their African-American characters should share the Black experience of poverty and prejudice. So Marv and George were wrestling with how to make Vic relatable yet still come from that privilege.

    However, this was only a difficulty in the very early issues. Once readers got to know Vic as an individual, his socio-economic status didn't matter.

    For me, what I appreciated was the relationship between Vic and Gar. I liked their friendship and how they were there for each other. Claremont's female characters supported each other--but here you had male characters showing the same compassion and that was a wonderful thing to behold.

    In the summer of 1981, I was cycling through Europe and I remember one morning riding my bike along the Rhine, the sun shining. It was a beautiful scene, but as I paused to sit there and admire the view, I was thinking, "I wonder what Vic and Gar are doing right now?" There I was in this beautiful place, but I was missing my Titans. I wanted to know how they were doing and I would have to wait another month before I could get home and pick up their story.

    That's how much they meant to me.

  8. #53
    The Spirits of Vengeance K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, she still had a revealing outfit and solid figure (just look at that episode with her in a dress) if not as revealing as her Perez look.

    And with a dash more innocence than the sexual forwardness of her comic self, although still just as loving and spirited.
    Amen, Frontier! Couldn't agree more!!




  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    Most boys 12 years and up bought the book to drool over Starfire and Wonder Girl.
    And get smacked across the face for saying half of what Gar does.

  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    Most boys 12 years and up bought the book to drool over Starfire and Wonder Girl.
    Seriously? Those kids didn't know where to find porn?

    Peace

  11. #56
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    I realize that a twelve year old in those days had a tough time finding any porn--but a mainstream comic book hardly seems like it would have satisfied that interest.

    I never could view Starfire as a sex object--she looked like a cross between Omaha the Cat Dancer and Little Orphan Annie--I don't find cats with no pupils sexy.

    Donna Troy, on the other hand, has had greater artists who made her look very beautiful. But she's still just a drawing.

    I didn't think it was a great idea to make Starfire a model and Donna her fashion photographer. Those seem like the common place jobs that are always given to female characters. Maybe they deserved better.

  12. #57
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    Giving Kory pupils is the best design change the cartoon made.

    I mean, Dick would be the one I'm drooling over anyway, but of the ladies I can still see the appeal of Donna and at times Raven over Kory and her lifeless eyes.

  13. #58
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Woflman and Perez were trying to do a body positivity and sex positive message even when it got pervy, you could still see their intent. Nu52 Starfire was just pure male fantasy shit where Starfire was just a plain ol' sex object.
    Yep, it's why that first issue of Red Hood and the Outlaws is so damn infamous still lol.

    I have seen some fans say that if you list all the Starfire focused episodes it add up to the same number as the characters who got a whole season focused on them. Even the characters who got a season focused didn't have every episode focused on them, some of the other characters fot spot lighted as well.
    Huh, I'd have to check that out.

    Unpopular opinion but I thought Palmiotti and Connor's Starfire series did a good job of blending in classic Starfire and comic book Starfire into a single character. The characterization was fine, it was the plots that felt superfluous.
    What I saw of that comic made it look like she got hit on the head repeatedly before the comic started lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads1 View Post
    Seriously? Those kids didn't know where to find porn?

    Peace
    Was a bit harder to find porn before the internet, nowadays you can just pick a cellphone, search for "big tiddy anime gurl" and that'll be that .
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  14. #59
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Giving Kory pupils is the best design change the cartoon made.

    I mean, Dick would be the one I'm drooling over anyway, but of the ladies I can still see the appeal of Donna and at times Raven over Kory and her lifeless eyes.
    I think she looks good with pupils but the pure green eyes also have a strong visual appeal (and the show appropriated them for her "angry" face).

  15. #60
    Extraordinary Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Was a bit harder to find porn before the internet, nowadays you can just pick a cellphone, search for "big tiddy anime gurl" and that'll be that .
    Of course it Was. Demanded much more commitment and creativity to get porn before the internet.

    Peace

    PS: On the who I found most drolling over worthy debate, I'm gonna go with Donna. All the way.
    Last edited by Nomads1; 06-28-2022 at 12:28 PM.

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