Should The Wildstorm Characters Be A Part of The DC Universe?

[Cel]

Wildstorm should be it's own universe. The characters always end up lost in translation in the DCU and seems way outta place. Have them in their own universe and create a Wildstorm line is what I think they should do.

Seconded.

Wildstorm characters feel like second- or third-stringers in the DCU. Good for the occasional cameo or brief supporting role in someone else's book, but they'll never be able to tell their own stories if they remain that way.

[Factor]

As a Wildstorm fan, I was very excited when the WS universe merged with the DCU in the New 52. The execution however left a lot to be desired. I don't feel strongly one way or another tbh, it's all about the creators involved and how the story is executed. I adored The WildStorm by Warren Ellis but it was a commercial failure and has probably put the nail in the coffin for WS in its own corner for a number of years. I'm not against a relaunched Wildcats, Gen13 etc set in the DCU but DC seems to be struggling with their own core team books at the moment so I don't see it happening anytime soon.

I would like to see DC try WS as a series of prestige graphic novels.
I think classic Wildstorm still does very well as trades, so new versions could appeal to the same audience

[Frontier]

"WildCATS will return" except not .

[Restingvoice]

Depends. Do they have a better chance being featured in their own book in a separate line, or as a guest characters in somebody else's book? (Batman family being the highest chance they get since the line is mostly Bat fam. There's less option for their own book inside DCU line when they don't even have space for Aquaman or Green Lantern)

[red winter]

First of all Wildstorm would have integrated better in Marvel since DC rebooted their universe three or four times at least in the the last fifteen years and still hasn't integrated Wildstorm well. The Justice League is dead now so why not bring Stormwatch in as the United Nations Superteam that NATO puts together as homage to the JLA with former members added for example, then we have S.H.A.D.E. Wetworks would have been a great tactical response team for the organization and don't get me started on Gen 13 & DV8 who would be great as pupils or students at the Titans Academy or revamped version of the Team Titans.
What I'm saying is Wildstorm could be an alternate earth separate or integrated into the DCU but they just want comics that show you the legacy of Supes ,Bats, and Wonder Woman and nothing else matters

[Agent Z]

First of all Wildstorm would have integrated better in Marvel since DC rebooted their universe three or four times at least in the the last fifteen years and still hasn't integrated Wildstorm well. The Justice League is dead now so why not bring Stormwatch in as the United Nations Superteam that NATO puts together as homage to the JLA with former members added for example, then we have S.H.A.D.E. Wetworks would have been a great tactical response team for the organization and don't get me started on Gen 13 & DV8 who would be great as pupils or students at the Titans Academy or revamped version of the Team Titans.
What I'm saying is Wildstorm could be an alternate earth separate or integrated into the DCU but they just want comics that show you the legacy of Supes ,Bats, and Wonder Woman and nothing else matters

The Wildstorm characters wouldn't have integrated any better into Marvel. The issue isn't that DC keeps rebooting. The issue is that the Wildstorm characters were not designed to fit into a universe that isn't there own.

[ed2962]

I think the Wildstorm characters work best either in their own universe or at least if they're in the main DCU they should kinda stay in their own little corner. I think part of the problem is that many of them were edgier more modern version of several Marvel and DC archetypes. Some of those characters still work, but many of them just become redundant. Apollo works but what's the point of Mr Majestic when you've got Superman and a dozen Supes spin off heroes already? What's the point of John Lynch when you've got Nick Fury and Nick Jr running around?

Plus the mythos that's connects Stormwatch/Wildcats/Authority works better when it is it's own little thing.

[Ascended]

The Wildstorm characters wouldn't have integrated any better into Marvel. The issue isn't that DC keeps rebooting. The issue is that the Wildstorm characters were not designed to fit into a universe that isn't there own.

This.

While some WS characters and concepts fit the DCU, WS on the whole was designed to be a little more morally gray than either DC or Marvel. This was the era of the paramilitary hit squad, corporate run meta-security firms, and extremist political terrorism, and groups like the Authority just don't easily fit the binary mold of the DCU where heroes (generally) do heroic things and villains (generally) do evil things.

Granted, the WS stable *could* be used to great effect to introduce a third morality "faction" in DC. The "gray Jedi" of the DCU, the anti-heroes, where things aren't as clear cut as the typical superheroic tale. We have guys like Black Adam or Red Hood and groups like the Suicide Squad that already kinda-sorta fit the bill and the WildStorm characters could flesh it out in a way that enriches and expands the entire DCU.

But the issue is execution. Trying to take something like the Authority and do them properly while walking a line where the League doesn't go after them but they're still the proactive, revolutionary bastards they are? That's a fine like to walk.

It could be done, but I wouldn't trust DC to do it well.

[skyvolt2000]

First of all Wildstorm would have integrated better in Marvel since DC rebooted their universe three or four times at least in the the last fifteen years and still hasn't integrated Wildstorm well. The Justice League is dead now so why not bring Stormwatch in as the United Nations Superteam that NATO puts together as homage to the JLA with former members added for example, then we have S.H.A.D.E. Wetworks would have been a great tactical response team for the organization and don't get me started on Gen 13 & DV8 who would be great as pupils or students at the Titans Academy or revamped version of the Team Titans.
What I'm saying is Wildstorm could be an alternate earth separate or integrated into the DCU but they just want comics that show you the legacy of Supes ,Bats, and Wonder Woman and nothing else matters

Ultraverse wants a WORD....

The universe as WHOLE does not fit DC. Parts of it-yes but not everyone.

[Mr. White]

No thanks. IMO, incorporating WS characters into the DC Universe will only bring with it a whole bunch of limitations.

Especially after the revamped version Ellis did a few years ago. Would like to see a whole world built around that concept.

[Vordan]

This.

While some WS characters and concepts fit the DCU, WS on the whole was designed to be a little more morally gray than either DC or Marvel. This was the era of the paramilitary hit squad, corporate run meta-security firms, and extremist political terrorism, and groups like the Authority just don't easily fit the binary mold of the DCU where heroes (generally) do heroic things and villains (generally) do evil things.

Granted, the WS stable *could* be used to great effect to introduce a third morality "faction" in DC. The "gray Jedi" of the DCU, the anti-heroes, where things aren't as clear cut as the typical superheroic tale. We have guys like Black Adam or Red Hood and groups like the Suicide Squad that already kinda-sorta fit the bill and the WildStorm characters could flesh it out in a way that enriches and expands the entire DCU.

But the issue is execution. Trying to take something like the Authority and do them properly while walking a line where the League doesn't go after them but they're still the proactive, revolutionary bastards they are? That's a fine like to walk.

It could be done, but I wouldn't trust DC to do it well.

Easy way to make them work is that they’re the guys who do the governments work, “super-agents” if you will. They don’t operate along lines of morality but along lines of nation-states, so you’ve got the JL in the tough position of potentially being at odds with governments. They may want to stop them but when these teams are officially sanctioned by NATO or what have you, what can they do? There’s always questions of “why don’t heroes intervene in wars?”, well make these guys the heroes that DO that, and explore the moral quandaries of them doing that. I think it could work very well.

Problem with them on their own is they won’t sell. Milestone isn’t selling very well, I really don’t think there’s an appetite for these characters on their own anymore. People want them in the shared universe.

[Adekis]

Apollo and Midnighter have made a pretty good translation into the DCU, but in general I think the Wildstorm world's backstory is too... specific? And too setting-defining to really work as part of the DCU. All the secret government cabals, the ancient feuds between different races of aliens living on Earth... I mean I get that the universe is a big place, but Khera and Oa just kind of... clash, for me. The Justice League and StormWatch are hard to make co-exist. Early New 52 was a good example of how difficult, and they did kind of a neutered version of StormWatch too, if I recall. Not to mention they mostly just didn't bother with the WildC.A.T., whose membership was a lot more commonly tied into Kheran and Daemonite heritage.

If I was given the option to just see Wildstorm published as just like, two or three books in their own independent setting from the DCU? Maybe even totally divested from DC as a company? That'd probably be my preferred approach.

[Ascended]

Easy way to make them work is that they’re the guys who do the governments work, “super-agents” if you will. They don’t operate along lines of morality but along lines of nation-states, so you’ve got the JL in the tough position of potentially being at odds with governments. They may want to stop them but when these teams are officially sanctioned by NATO or what have you, what can they do? There’s always questions of “why don’t heroes intervene in wars?”, well make these guys the heroes that DO that, and explore the moral quandaries of them doing that. I think it could work very well.

Problem with them on their own is they won’t sell. Milestone isn’t selling very well, I really don’t think there’s an appetite for these characters on their own anymore. People want them in the shared universe.

Yeah, that's probably how I'd spin them as well; along political lines rather than ethical ones.

But we'd still be left in a very similar position where these characters/groups are at odds with the heroic community, and I have my doubts that DC's editorial and talent pools could maintain that balance.

The League does try to stay out of politics, which opens up some room for groups like StormWatch....but the League will still step in when they feel it's necessary. So sure, the UN could send StormWatch into Bialya to kill Queen Bee and set up a puppet regime, and the League probably wouldn't say anything. But after the UN has done the same to Khandaq, Pokolistan, Markovia? How far can you push it before the heroes decide a line has been crossed and the UN/StormWatch needs to be put down?

How do you handle groups like the Authority destabilizing tyrannical governments without making the League look bad? How do you handle the League without making the Authority look like legit villains?

Now, this stuff "could" make for a fantastic story and we've probably all got examples in our heads where this sorta thing was done really well. I myself would very much approve of seeing DC's heroes deal with the complexities of national politicking more often. But would DC *actually* do it well? Consistently? They've historically struggled with their anti-heroes and how those characters fit into the wider DCU's mold. I don't think increasing the number of anti-heroes and political agents would somehow make DC better able to deal with the situation.

Maybe if the WS characters were covert agents that people didn't know about, you could sell the idea that they're so deep state the League hasn't heard of them, or can't locate them if they have heard. And that'd work to a point, but a lot of the WS roster aren't exactly "covert" yknow?

If I was given the option to just see Wildstorm published as just like, two or three books in their own independent setting from the DCU? Maybe even totally divested from DC as a company? That'd probably be my preferred approach.

Probably the best option. A handful of WS characters can (and have) translated into DC fairly well, and I'd be fine with them sticking around....but as multiversal Variants of the "real" characters on earth-WS.

But of course, odds are sales would be terrible no matter what was done. The market can barely support the Big Name heroes these days, DC itself can barely support anything that isn't Batman, and the odds of a WS book staying above cancellation seems real damn low to me no matter how DC handled them.

[lefthanded]

I mean, part of the allure of Wildstorm comics is that they'll do stuff Marvel/DC won't.

Why doesn't Batman just kill the Joker? Just watch Midnighter do his thing.
Isn't Nick Fury even sketchier than the Marvel has him being? Let's follow John Lynch for a spell.
Why doesn't the Justice League truly make a change? Authority says hold my beer.

If they are in the same universe, then the DC superheroes will either have to veer more towards being like Wildstorm, or veer away and shut them down. Either way, Wildstorm characters are only good for a short time.

[Agent Z]

Easy way to make them work is that they’re the guys who do the governments work, “super-agents” if you will. They don’t operate along lines of morality but along lines of nation-states, so you’ve got the JL in the tough position of potentially being at odds with governments. They may want to stop them but when these teams are officially sanctioned by NATO or what have you, what can they do? There’s always questions of “why don’t heroes intervene in wars?”, well make these guys the heroes that DO that, and explore the moral quandaries of them doing that. I think it could work very well.

Problem with them on their own is they won’t sell. Milestone isn’t selling very well, I really don’t think there’s an appetite for these characters on their own anymore. People want them in the shared universe.

Isn't this just the Suicide Squad, Checkmate and numerous other government characters that already exist in the main DC universe?