Composite Hamon user (Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure) VS Muzan (Demon Slayer)

[Kuro]

The sun shine warrior faces off against Michael Jackson. Who wins?

The Hamon user also has the ability to predict what Muzan will say next.

[Nik Hasta]

Does the spiral count as Hamon and does the composite get any associated Stands?

Either way, I'm not liking their chances, Muzan is an absolute monster.

[Kuro]

I forget, what was the Spiral again? Also, I thought Stands and Hamon were completely unassociated? The only character who even used both was Joseph and he only used it like once during Stardust Crusaders. (Shame)

[Nik Hasta]

I can explain but means spoilers and tacit spoilers for Stone Ocean and the subsequent series Steel Ball Run.

In short, if we're counting Spiral users as part of Hamon, which it kind of is, then some of those users have Stands.

[Kuro]

Wait a minute. Hamon makes a comeback!?!?

[Nik Hasta]

Wait a minute. Hamon makes a comeback!?!?

Eeeeehh... kind of.

After the events of the finale of Stone Ocean - spoilers:

wherein the universe is reset at the close of the story.

end of spoilers

In Steel Ball Run we are introduced to the Spiral or Golden Ratio that - spoilers:

kind of operates in the same "magical kung fu/energy manipulation" space that Hamon did previously before the universe was reset.

end of spoilers

It's never fully confirmed that the Spiral /is/ Hamon spoilers:

albeit reimagined in a new universe

end of spoilers but they seem to occupy the same space.

And, all of the above said, some Spiral users have Stands and use the Spiral to enhance their Stand Abilities.

[Jcogginsa]

I don't think we have enough evidence to connect the Spiral* to Hamon.

However, We can connected Hamon to the Pillar Men, since Ultimate Lifeform Kars was a Hamon user

*Which I've alwasy seen refered to as the Spin

[Nik Hasta]

I don't think we have enough evidence to connect the Spiral* to Hamon.

However, We can connected Hamon to the Pillar Men, since Ultimate Lifeform Kars was a Hamon user

*Which I've alwasy seen refered to as the Spin

It is called the Spin in the series, my brain defaulted to the Spiral because of the Golden Ratio thing.

If we're not allowing the Spin into the composite then that leaves us with what... in terms of actual characters with feats:

- Jonathan Joestar
- Will A. Zeppelli
- Joseph Joestar
- Ceaser Zeppelli
- Lisa Lisa
- Dire
- Straits
- Ultimate Cars

Which effectively makes it Ultimate Kars versus Muzan because Kars is wildly above everyone else in the composite.

Personally, I'm not seeing Muzan losing this. Muzan is significantly faster than anyone in the composite, has insane regeneration and a sick range game as well. While Hamon should hurt him, as it's the power of the sun which he never learned to survive, I'm not seeing his opponent living long enough to make meaningful contact.

[Jcogginsa]

It is called the Spin in the series, my brain defaulted to the Spiral because of the Golden Ratio thing.

If we're not allowing the Spin into the composite then that leaves us with what... in terms of actual characters with feats:

- Jonathan Joestar
- Will A. Zeppelli
- Joseph Joestar
- Ceaser Zeppelli
- Lisa Lisa
- Dire
- Straits
- Ultimate Cars

Which effectively makes it Ultimate Kars versus Muzan because Kars is wildly above everyone else in the composite.

Personally, I'm not seeing Muzan losing this. Muzan is significantly faster than anyone in the composite, has insane regeneration and a sick range game as well. While Hamon should hurt him, as it's the power of the sun which he never learned to survive, I'm not seeing his opponent living long enough to make meaningful contact.

IIRC Muzan's chief fighting tactic was making a bunch of tendrils and whipping them back and forth. Which i don't see being very effective afainst Hamon

[Nik Hasta]

IIRC Muzan's chief fighting tactic was making a bunch of tendrils and whipping them back and forth. Which i don't see being very effective afainst Hamon

Tendrils that are moving way faster than anyone in the composite has been shown to react? Tendrils that dismember people and meta-human demons with ease? That tear through stone and the like?

He also has literally invisible projectiles.

[Jcogginsa]

Tendrils that are moving way faster than anyone in the composite has been shown to react? Tendrils that dismember people and meta-human demons with ease? That tear through stone and the like?

He also has literally visible projectiles.

Setting Aside the issue of the projectiles for a moment, the composite doesn't actually need to be able to react to the tendrils. All it needs to do is charge itself with Hamon. That'll destroy the tendrils when they make contact with the composite. They may or may not be do damange before they're destroyed, but the Composite is a pillar man, getting ripped to shreds isn't exactly lethal to him.

The way I see it, both of these guys are nigh unkillable. Muzan has the advantage of being much faster. Kars has the advantage of having his opponent's Kryptonite. Kars has a method of killing Muzan in the theoretical sense. Muzan doesn't have anything that can put down Kars permanently, so far as I know.

If you'll grant a dive into speculation territory, The Ultimate Liveform is stated to be able to gain the traits of any lifeform on Earth. That would include Wisteria, a plant which is stated in Demon Slayer to hurt demons and slow down their regen. So that's two kryptonites Kars has in his arsenal.

[Nik Hasta]

Setting Aside the issue of the projectiles for a moment, the composite doesn't actually need to be able to react to the tendrils. All it needs to do is charge itself with Hamon. That'll destroy the tendrils when they make contact with the composite. They may or may not be do damange before they're destroyed, but the Composite is a pillar man, getting ripped to shreds isn't exactly lethal to him.

The way I see it, both of these guys are nigh unkillable. Muzan has the advantage of being much faster. Kars has the advantage of having his opponent's Kryptonite. Kars has a method of killing Muzan in the theoretical sense. Muzan doesn't have anything that can put down Kars permanently, so far as I know.

If you'll grant a dive into speculation territory, The Ultimate Liveform is stated to be able to gain the traits of any lifeform on Earth. That would include Wisteria, a plant which is stated in Demon Slayer to hurt demons and slow down their regen. So that's two kryptonites Kars has in his arsenal.

Couple of serious issues with this assessment.

1) Hamon is derived from breath. To infuse themself with Hamon energy, the Composite has to breath when the bell goes. As standard arena distance is 100 feet and Muzan is both significantly faster than them and has gigantic range - they are getting cut in half before they can do that. Can't make Hamon if you got no lungs.

2) Muzan infuses his attacks with his own blood which causes the body and cells of the target to breakdown so this means that the Composite's regeneration has to actively fight against being broken down as well as trying to heal.

3) Even stuff that is meant to work on demons - Nichirin Blades, Wisteria poison, etc - does not work on Muzan properly. Remember, a basic baby demon can survive having its head removed just fine and even regen from it, it's only because normal demons cannot regenerate from cuts from a Nichirin Blade that beheading kills them. Muzan regenerates so fast that blades that cut through his neck cleanly do essentially zero damage because he heals behind the blade as it cuts through him. While he won't /like/ Hamon, it's not like it will instant-kill him.

Further to this, Doma (Upper Moon Two) was able to metabolise and render Shinobu's basic Wisteria poisons (that had previously fully melted regular demons) completely ineffective. Muzan's ability to adapt is even higher so a poison that the Composite comes up with is not guaranteed to work for long.

4) Most of Muzan's feats that we see in combat are from after he was poisoned by Tamayo which, among other things, meant he was aging 50 years per minute and, in the course of the battle, aged more than 9,000 years. Ergo, he was far from his most optimal state and getting weaker with each second that passed. This will not be the case here.

All of which is to say, while Pillar Men are hard to put down, Muzan has such a raw stat advantage I don't really see how he doesn't just eviscerate the Composite and then keeps him down for a 10 count with repeated attacks.

[Captain Morgan]

Ah, but can Muzen turn his hand into a squirrel? If not, can you really call him a winner?

[Nik Hasta]

If it's referenced, it should be posted:

[Jcogginsa]

Couple of serious issues with this assessment.

1) Hamon is derived from breath. To infuse themself with Hamon energy, the Composite has to breath when the bell goes. As standard arena distance is 100 feet and Muzan is both significantly faster than them and has gigantic range - they are getting cut in half before they can do that. Can't make Hamon if you got no lungs.

2) Muzan infuses his attacks with his own blood which causes the body and cells of the target to breakdown so this means that the Composite's regeneration has to actively fight against being broken down as well as trying to heal.

3) Even stuff that is meant to work on demons - Nichirin Blades, Wisteria poison, etc - does not work on Muzan properly. Remember, a basic baby demon can survive having its head removed just fine and even regen from it, it's only because normal demons cannot regenerate from cuts from a Nichirin Blade that beheading kills them. Muzan regenerates so fast that blades that cut through his neck cleanly do essentially zero damage because he heals behind the blade as it cuts through him. While he won't /like/ Hamon, it's not like it will instant-kill him.

Further to this, Doma (Upper Moon Two) was able to metabolise and render Shinobu's basic Wisteria poisons (that had previously fully melted regular demons) completely ineffective. Muzan's ability to adapt is even higher so a poison that the Composite comes up with is not guaranteed to work for long.

4) Most of Muzan's feats that we see in combat are from after he was poisoned by Tamayo which, among other things, meant he was aging 50 years per minute and, in the course of the battle, aged more than 9,000 years. Ergo, he was far from his most optimal state and getting weaker with each second that passed. This will not be the case here.

All of which is to say, while Pillar Men are hard to put down, Muzan has such a raw stat advantage I don't really see how he doesn't just eviscerate the Composite and then keeps him down for a 10 count with repeated attacks.

Okay, thes are fair points. However I think Kars still has a path to Victory.

While Muzan is likely still faster, Kars was capable of deflecting bullets even before he became Ultimate. Assuming that Hamon can boost speed (Which I think is a fair assessment given the superhuman feats that the Jojo's can pull off) then Kars will have a boosted version of that. I think that should be enough to Kars to get off a breath.

Kars also doesn't need to get into Melee range with Muzan either, as Hamon can be channeled through the ground. Since Kars Hamon is much more powerful than the human Hamon masters, I think it's plausible that he could charge the entire arena with it, making every surface damaging to Muzan