What changes would you make to the dc universe?

[Falcon16]

Which one is that? The Dini/Timm/McDuffie awesomeness? Or the 52 based stuff?

The first one.

[Kirk Brent]

Inspire. I haven't determined the age difference, but he's younger than the second. Like for example, he showed up and became public figure at 13 while Jay and Joan were in college or something.
Clark 13 Jay 21
Clark 25 Jay 29

Let's say Jay and the others formed JSA when they're 22-25

Clark and Bruce debuted at 25, met each other at 26, and joined JSA as honorary member at 27 while the Jay and the others are 35+ and Dick was 12

They remain honorary member since they also formed their own group JLA, in the same year or one year later. Their main commitment is in JLA, but they can switch team.

Something like that. I haven't thought further than this.

I can lengthen the time of Clark's teenage years to World War II and enlarge the age gap to make the JSA older using his Kryptonian slow aging, but that means The Kents are really young when they adopted him. As young as Jay. Maybe a year or two older and they got married young because it was a different time and war is coming.

Wait, no... that wouldn't work for Lana and Pete. Luthor was older in Byrne's run so it can work for him, but people would still notice the Kent boy not growing. Nevermind.

I'd love to see something like this. Reminds me a bit of John Byrne's Generations but it's also quite different. I know it would never happen, but this would also be a great basis for a movie or TV universe.

Of course there'd be one shots specials and minis! Anyone who doesn't play on nostalgia from time to time is just leaving money on the table. I can't believe that DC/WB has/had been so foolish as to not create specials set in pre-Crisis or pre-Flashpoint. Makes sense to at least make a yearly special set in the old continuity for at least the first decade after retiring a continuity. Keeps fans happy and excited, let's writer explore ideas only possible in the previous continuity and nets the company more money.

Of course with my idea of giving most of the main heroes success stories and happy endings, I predict most such specials would focus on legacy characters instead, but I suspect that would largely appeal to the people interested in that sort of thing anyway.

The closest they've come is Convergence and DC Retroactive, both of which had their own problems. It boggles the mind that they don't see the potential in doing more separate projects set in different continuities or eras. Waid's TWF feels a lot like it's a continuation of pre-COIE Earth One. I'd be thrilled to learn that this is the intent.

My first thought is making an official list of universes, and publish a guidebook showing which comics take place in each. Then going forward use that as part of the cover art on comics.

Excellent idea! The Multiversity Guidebook and series came close but those ideas were never used again in a lasting way. Decide on the core universes, publish a guidebook, and then label books with their respective designations. It's so easy, yet so impossible for DC.

Similar to many of the ideas in this thread just an emphasis on the multiverse and creating different Earths based around prior continuities, outside media (like Batman '89 or Superman '77), and of course original stories.

Big push towards writers being able to have creative freedom. Different Earths open the door for more storytelling and breathing room.

Books can also be set in the past, in the main universe just at a different time, allowing the ability to flesh a story or character out without having to turn to an entirely different Earth.

Our main Earth wouldn't be everything that happened but important events that are necessary for the universe to function where it's at. Stories set in the past allow iffy points in continuity to be explained.

Each book would have a marker of what Earth is on so readers are aware of what is main and what is out of continuity. Markers for minis and ongoing would also be a thing.

Clear visions for characters, maybe take seasonal approaches to stories, especially for mainline books. 12-month spans of a cohesive story and character direction to keep things cohesive and well-written. Of course, seasons can be longer or shorter depending. Breaks can be encouraged as manga writers do from time to time. Allow the writers to rejuvenate.

I wouldn't mind team books alternating artists in the same issue. It just needs to be good. Not sure if comic artists are hard to find but some of them gotta go. More structured stories and better art.

Like the poster ahead of it a guidebook would be created, maybe something readers can access online.

DC Universe Infinite would get a structural change. Easier to track books by characters, storyline, or team. Users can create reading lists etc. Very community-based. Multi/Omniverse map would be on there.

I don't think you can buy books there but I feel like print books, trades, and graphic novels should come with a digital code. Maybe up the price a bit (although I'm not for that personally).

Exclusive digital books only, some can be printed as trades later. To some extent, that's there but I feel like with less restraint for release dates would get better long-form stories. Also, allow characters who wouldn't get stories otherwise. Different samples can be published, if readers like it more can be published down the line. Similar to the Round Robin but I do think digital allows more freedom in what gets told.

Most importantly no major Crisis events for 15 years at the very least. Since we're pushing various stories in various canons there's no need to try and take over the main universe. Characters successful in different continuities can crossover and be reinvented to fit, but having their own sanctioned universe allows some creativity as I said before.

Love these ideas!

One of my biggest problems with DC, as well as one of the things I think is most destructive and confusing about it, is the overabundance of redundant characters. That is, multiple characters using the same mantle, such as Superman, Aquaman, Green Lantern, Wonder Girl, Flash, and so on...
I haven't thought of a detailed master plan on how to address that issue, but I would certainly do something about that.

I understand that many of these characters, especially lately, were added in an effort to add more diversity to the DCU. That idea is great in and of itself, but I think we can have a Latina character just fine without her being yet another Green Lantern, or have a bisexual character without making him another Superman, or have a gay black guy without him being Aquaman.

"But wait! Nobody cares about new characters with new mantles!"
I don't think that is true. Rather, I believe DC has not been able to make them work well due to weak ideas, poor planning, lack of long term investing, and general failure at growing its audience.

The idea of "redundant characters" is interesting. As a kid, I would sneak peaks at my brother's comics (he didn't allow me to touch them, much less look inside) and he collected a lot of DC. This was the early 80s, so he had lots of the JLA/JSA/All-Star Squadron crossovers. As a kid, I didn't see multiple versions of characters as redundant, but instead, exciting. Years later, I came to see that alternate versions allowed for limitless story potential. Earth-One and Earth-Two Superman seemed similar but were quite different in a lot of ways. This was reflected in their crossovers and is something that could still be done today.

As for mantles, I'd like to see an Earth not unlike the late post-COIE era: heroes have either aged out of their roles or died or moved on and others have taken up their mantles. This could be DC's version of Marvel's "MC2" and also serve as an "Ultimate DC" that targets young readers with new versions of characters they know about but perhaps aren't interested in. I'm all for the legacy approach as long as it can coexist with the original characters continuing their adventures.

[krazijoe]

Why fix what isn't broken.

[Nomads1]

Why fix what isn't broken.

That never stopped DC before.

Peace

[CellarDweller]

Changes I would like to make have already been suggested here.

No more crisis events.

No more repetitive characters. There is no need for all of the Green Lanterns and Batman characters we have.

If there are different Earths, no cross-over events.


Not sure if this has been said, but no character (unless they belong to a team) deserves or needs to have more than three books. Example: Batman could have "Batman", "Brave & The Bold" (Batman and a non-Batman character team up) and "Batman Family" (stories that center around Batman, Nightwing, Batgirl, Robin). Of course, he would still be able to be used in JLA.

One book would be created that would be consistently used as a "whoever" book to tell stories using characters that are not getting a spotlight anywhere else. Example: Title the book "Tales of Justice". The first three issues would be a 3 story arc that stars Vixen. The next two issues contain a 2 issue arc focused on Hawkman and Hawkgirl. Next issue features a team up of Naomi and the Wonder Twins, and keep the rotation going to feature other characters.

[Vakanai]

The closest they've come is Convergence and DC Retroactive, both of which had their own problems. It boggles the mind that they don't see the potential in doing more separate projects set in different continuities or eras. Waid's TWF feels a lot like it's a continuation of pre-COIE Earth One. I'd be thrilled to learn that this is the intent.

What's TWF?

[John Venus]

When I was a kid I was reading Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-girl/Mayday Parker and the mainline Spidey books all at the same time. I understood that this was the same character but in universes and different points in the timeline. The problem isn't so much as too many characters with shared mantles, it's that we have too many characters and not enough books to place them in. There are like 8(?) human Lanterns but only one GL book. Of course fans of [insert GL here] is upset that their guys isn't the lead. DC spinning off 'John Stewart & The Emerald Knights' book is a good sign.

Personally, I think some characters work better if they existed in the period that they were created in. I don't think concepts like Challengers of the Unknown, Metal Men or the Blackhawk need to be revamped for the current zeitgeist. Their stories should always exist in the time period it happened in. At best you can have characters like Lady Blackhawk/Zinda Blake who time traveled to modern day as team members.

[Restingvoice]

I peeked at the old More Fun and Adventure Comics. While More Fun has Superboy as a high schooler, Adventure had him as a ten year old. That's even better. Now the age gap can be larger (I prefer taking as close to canon as possible) and both adventures range from his not yet named hometown at the time to Metropolis. He's known to the press.

Superboy Clark age 10 - Jay Garrick college student age 21-22 becomes Flash
Superboy age 14 - Jay The Flash age 25-26 JSA World War II era
Superman and Batman age 25 debuted - Jay Flash age 36-37
Trinity age 26-27 JSA junior/honorary members - Jay Garrick age 37-38 JSA senior
Then the Trinity created the Justice League, followed by Robin creating Teen Titans, as the JSA members hit 40+

[Kirk Brent]

Why fix what isn't broken.

You're serious? The DCU has been broken since COIE wreaked havoc in 1986. As a fictional construct, the pre-COIE DCU wasn't broken at all. As a publishing construct, it needed considerable revamping and revitalization. There is a distinct difference between the two. If the DCU wasn't broken, we wouldn't be talking about any of this and there wouldn't have been seven (counting Rebirth and Doomsday Clock as separate events and including Dark Crisis) events attempting to fix continuity.

What's TWF?

Sorry, "The World's Finest."

I don't have a problem with different versions of characters existing in alternate universes. If anything, I think DC doesn't do enough with its multiverse other than break it and try to put it back together in events.

However, I do have a problem with multiple Batgirls running around in one universe, multiple Flashes, multiple Aquamen, and loads and loads of Green Lanterns. GL is a little different because they come from a Corps, so more than one is okay, but...like...8 or 9 of them? That's overkill. I think there comes a point when things start getting confusing, you water down your concepts, and you accumulate more characters than you're likely able to facilitate. And of course, there are opposing fanbases that this sort of thing breeds, who want opposing things from the same mantle and property. I don't see that disunity and those varying expectations as strengths.

Ah, got ya. I agree. Marvel started the trend in recent years with Miles Morales and it's ridiculous there now with multiple versions in one universe. DC has sadly followed suit. I'm hoping whatever follows Dark Crisis will involve a streamlining of the DCU. Only one Batman, Superman, etc.

When I was a kid I was reading Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-girl/Mayday Parker and the mainline Spidey books all at the same time. I understood that this was the same character but in universes and different points in the timeline. The problem isn't so much as too many characters with shared mantles, it's that we have too many characters and not enough books to place them in. There are like 8(?) human Lanterns but only one GL book. Of course fans of [insert GL here] is upset that their guys isn't the lead. DC spinning off 'John Stewart & The Emerald Knights' book is a good sign.

Personally, I think some characters work better if they existed in the period that they were created in. I don't think concepts like Challengers of the Unknown, Metal Men or the Blackhawk need to be revamped for the current zeitgeist. Their stories should always exist in the time period it happened in. At best you can have characters like Lady Blackhawk/Zinda Blake who time traveled to modern day as team members.

DC's in such bad shape editorially and financially that it can't (or won't) take the risk of creating additional titles for these characters. They've put all their eggs in the Bat-basket and keep expecting that to somehow work out.

I peeked at the old More Fun and Adventure Comics. While More Fun has Superboy as a high schooler, Adventure had him as a ten year old. That's even better. Now the age gap can be larger (I prefer taking as close to canon as possible) and both adventures range from his not yet named hometown at the time to Metropolis. He's known to the press.

Superboy Clark age 10 - Jay Garrick college student age 21-22 becomes Flash
Superboy age 14 - Jay The Flash age 25-26 JSA World War II era
Superman and Batman age 25 debuted - Jay Flash age 36-37
Trinity age 26-27 JSA junior/honorary members - Jay Garrick age 37-38 JSA senior
Then the Trinity created the Justice League, followed by Robin creating Teen Titans, as the JSA members hit 40+

Nice! I'd love to see this in some form, either a new Earth-Two or an Earth designed to focus on the next generation in the present day.

[John Venus]

Ah, got ya. I agree. Marvel started the trend in recent years with Miles Morales and it's ridiculous there now with multiple versions in one universe. DC has sadly followed suit. I'm hoping whatever follows Dark Crisis will involve a streamlining of the DCU. Only one Batman, Superman, etc.

Marvel didn't start the trend but they're the ones most popular and successful for it.

Back in the 00's, DC introduced Blue Beetle and Ryan Choi. In the 90's, they had Connor Hawk as Green Arrow, Steel got an ongoing, Birds of Prey launched, characters like Robin, Catwoman, Batgirl (Cass Cain) got ongoings for the first time, there was the Milestone initiative, Sandman and the Vertigo stuff which introduced more diverse character, Linda Park and Pied Piper were regulars in Flash, if all these initiatives were happening today, there would be outrage videos on YT and social media posts with folks bemoaning all this 'SJW' stuff. But because some of concepts have become so normalized, we don't even notice it. If DC keeps up their current pace, in a few years nobody is going to bat an eye at Jon Kent having a boyfriend, Nubia getting solo stories or Jo Mullein being a GL.

Going even further back, you had Infinity Inc where Obsidian who was gay, Yolanda Montez as Wildcat's successor and in All Star Squadron they introduced Amazing Man whose origin was tied to being attacked by KKK mob.

Point is, DC has always done this. The difference between then and now is how convoluted continuity has become. Though that's not a problem with diverse characters but because of a reboot that never should have happened, DC bottlenecking itself for almost a decade trying to erase the NTT generation then suddenly introducing a whole new slate of legacy characters. It's an all round mismanagement of both established characters and legacy characters. Now they're stuck having to fix every generation of heroes.

DC's in such bad shape editorially and financially that it can't (or won't) take the risk of creating additional titles for these characters. They've put all their eggs in the Bat-basket and keep expecting that to somehow work out.

For now.

I think they're in a slow re building phase. The overall shared universe is dead but there are good standalone titles. I think they're just taking their time slowly re establishing characters and building up new ones. John Stewart is getting his own ongoing spinning off his appearance in the main GL title and there is going to be a YJ title coming out of Dark Crisis. Lets see where it goes. I think they will slowly widen their horizons over time.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

Obsidian was portrayed as straight in Infinity, Inc. The possibility that he wasn't straight was first raised by Gerard Jones during his time writing Justice League America in the mid-90s, but it wasn't made canon until the Manhunter book starring Kate Spenser.

[marhawkman]

I don't have a problem with different versions of characters existing in alternate universes. If anything, I think DC doesn't do enough with its multiverse other than break it and try to put it back together in events.

However, I do have a problem with multiple Batgirls running around in one universe, multiple Flashes, multiple Aquamen, and loads and loads of Green Lanterns. GL is a little different because they come from a Corps, so more than one is okay, but...like...8 or 9 of them? That's overkill. I think there comes a point when things start getting confusing, you water down your concepts, and you accumulate more characters than you're likely able to facilitate. And of course, there are opposing fanbases that this sort of thing breeds, who want opposing things from the same mantle and property. I don't see that disunity and those varying expectations as strengths.

I see it as a good reason to have multiple universe. It's kinda the point of alt-us to have a different take ont eh characters.

[John Venus]

Obsidian was portrayed as straight in Infinity, Inc. The possibility that he wasn't straight was first raised by Gerard Jones during his time writing Justice League America in the mid-90s, but it wasn't made canon until the Manhunter book starring Kate Spenser.

Hmmm, I could have sworn there was a page or panel from Infinity Inc days that hinted that Obsidian was gay but it has been a while since I last saw it.

DC switches management and figureheads so much these days, I don't know that there is much of a plan to what they're doing. Discovery could have its own ideas for how the DC universe should be handled, and that could upend whatever Daniel Cherry was trying to do, who still had to deal with whatever it was DiDio had already set in motion.

Also, I want to clearly say I don't have a problem with diverse heroes. I generally don't like multiple heroes using the same moniker at the same time in the same universe. GL is an exception because of the nature of the character's backstory, but even then, I can't abide 8 or 9 of them.
It doesn't really even matter to me if there are enough books to facilitate that. That's just not a concept that excites me and it makes all the heroes who engage in this practice seem less special than they could be, while also watering down whoever they're sharing the mantle with.

Unfortunately, this just happens to be a way DC often handles diverse heroes. I imagine because it's a lot easier than building one from scratch that actually works well and is successful. Though, I believe it typically causes a large host of its own problems.

I think newer characters symptomatic of a confusing continuity in that it's easier to create new characters and gain residual income from when they are adapted than work through a confusing and contradictory back log.

Of the new characters, I like Gold Beetle, fun, intriguing and doesn't take away spot light from the main character of the book.

Adding new human GL's when long time existing GL's can barely get any spotlight for themselves is counter productive.

But Steve Orlando just dropping in a character like the female Aztec during WW run just raises more questions. What about the previous Aztek? Is he still around? What's the backstory of this new one? I thought the bad guy that Aztec was fated to fight was done with in Morrison's JLA, is Maggedon back again? What? If the story is not even about this new character in the first place and she just disappears afterwards then what's the point of introducing her in the first place?

[Nomads1]

Hmmm, I could have sworn there was a page or panel from Infinity Inc days that hinted that Obsidian was gay but it has been a while since I last saw it.

I don't think so. He had kind of a wierd relationship with his long lost twin sister, Jade, and was a bit abrassive with all his other teammates, but I don't think they suggested in any way him being gay in Infinity Inc. Even in Gerard's JLA, I found that Fire and Ice Maiden's relationship was much more suggestive of a lesbian envolvement (openly from Ice Maiden's part I think). I think there were a couple of lines that showed that Todd's felling towards Al went beyond simple friendship, but, mostly, what I remember was that I found both of them annoying and didn't think they belonged in that book (even though I was a big Infinity Inc fan). Honestly, be it, gay, lesbian or straight, what I remember most about that run was that I found most of the interpersonal relationships in that book (Al and Bea, Al and Todd, Bea and Ingrid, Rex and Constance, or was it Vivian? etc...) VERY "unhealthy".

Peace

[Restingvoice]

I read more and the youngest Clark Superboy have been was apparently 8 years old, and that's the night after he's been photographed by the press and became worldwide famous. Though only Smallville people have seen him live thus far.

Current possible timeline based on Superman's life in multiple continuities:
Edit: Adding Bruce (same age) and Dick

Clark age 1 - Super Strength activated

Bruce age 3 - Death of Thomas Wayne Jr.
Clark age 4 - Super Jump activated
Bruce age 5 - Alfred's arrival
Bruce age 6 - Headmaster Whisper
Bruce age 7 - Best friend Tommy Elliot

Clark 8 Jay 21 - Superboy + The Flash
Bruce age 9 - Therapy alongside Harvey Dent
Clark age 10 - Super Hearing activated
Bruce age 11 - Childhood with Uncle Phillip Wayne
Clark 12 Jay 25 - JSA?
Bruce age 13 - Left the home of Phillip Wayne

Clark age 15 - Heat and X-Ray Vision activated
Clark age 16 - How Luthor lost everything?
Clark age 17 - Prom date with Lana
Clark age 18 - The Navy?
Bruce age 19 - How Batman learned to drive

Clark age 20 - Daily Star reporter
Clark age 21 - The Anti Superman Army
Bruce age 23 - Minkhoa Khan rivalry

Clark age 24 - Daily Planet internship
Clark 25 Jay 38 - JSA honorary member?
Clark age 26 - World's Finest
Clark 27 Jay 40 - JLA formation
Dick age 14 - Teen Titans Year One