The Flash #783 Preview (Dark Crisis Tie-In)

[millernumber1]

Anyone who disses his costume I would have words with .

His costume is awesome!

[Lucas 35]

Oh yeah, I don't think he and Iris are even married again...

It is kinda weird that Wally is married with kids and Barry is still technically single.

But Barry and Iris are married in Aquaman/The Flash: Voidsong, this comic isn't it canon?

[Frontier]

But Barry and Iris are married in Aquaman/The Flash: Voidsong, this comic isn't it canon?

That book seems to have a wonky timeline thing going on from what I've seen.

[Refrax5]

Anyone who disses his costume I would have words with .

Oh, definitely.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Well, that dimension is clearly a trap and an illusion, so no. I don't think we need to shuffle Barry off to another dimension or to the future. Whenever anyone says that, it's never about what's cool for the character. It's usually someone who isn't a fan that wants him out of the way.

I am a Barry fan, in theory. I just think no one - aside, oddly enough, for Jeremy Adams - has had the slightest idea what the hell to do with him and have turned him, ironically, into a Wally wannabe, at best, or a mopey, angsty pain in the ass, at worst. Mostly he's just been blah, though. Obviously, I understand that he's not actually going to stay in that dimension, but I do think that the more you lean into the Silver Age/ Bronze Age trappings, the better he works. I would love to have books for both Barry and Wally, but I think the latter simply fits better in the day to day DCU and they need to do something different with Barry.

[Refrax5]

I am a Barry fan, in theory. I just think no one - aside, oddly enough, for Jeremy Adams - has had the slightest idea what the hell to do with him and have turned him, ironically, into a Wally wannabe, at best, or a mopey, angsty pain in the ass, at worst. Mostly he's just been blah, though. Obviously, I understand that he's not actually going to stay in that dimension, but I do think that the more you lean into the Silver Age/ Bronze Age trappings, the better he works. I would love to have books for both Barry and Wally, but I think the latter simply fits better in the day to day DCU and they need to do something different with Barry.

I really never understand the "Wally wannabe" comments beyond the very skin-deep idea that Wally is funny in the cartoon and Barry is portrayed as being funny sometimes in the comics. It's not really the same kind of humor or personality at all.

It's just that no one can ever talk about Barry without inevitable comments that he should be dead/retired/somewhere else. I don't think there's anything about Barry that necessitates him being in the Silver Age or that he wouldn't fit in with the modern day at all. I do think DC hasn't bothered putting writers that really cared about or understood him on the book since maybe Johns. But I don't think a character being earnest or straight-laced makes them some kind of anachronism.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

I really never understand the "Wally wannabe" comments beyond the very skin-deep idea that Wally is funny in the cartoon and Barry is portrayed as being funny sometimes in the comics. It's not really the same kind of humor or personality at all.

No, I'm not talking about his sense of humour but his sort of bland everyman personality that reads like Wally with all the edges and personality trimmed off. And, again, that's on the positive side of his portrayal...

It's just that no one can ever talk about Barry without inevitable comments that he should be dead/retired/somewhere else. I don't think there's anything about Barry that necessitates him being in the Silver Age or that he wouldn't fit in with the modern day at all. I do think DC hasn't bothered putting writers that really cared about or understood him on the book since maybe Johns. But I don't think a character being earnest or straight-laced makes them some kind of anachronism.

But Johns wrote the worst Barry Allen by a country mile. And someone like Williamson clearly loves the character and he had an extremely lengthy run on the book but he failed spectacularly to make a modern Barry Allen remotely endearing, in my honest opinion. The only modern writers who have gotten Barry Allen right are Darwyn Cooke and Mark Waid and both of them wrote him in "retro" books. I'm not trying to sideline Barry but if he is to have any place in a world where Wally West proved to be the perfect modern age Flash, a new approach has got to be taken. And it doesn't have to be by putting him in the future or another dimension but if you are to have him in the present day, mainline DCU, they need to do something with him to actually set him apart. That he was the Flash before Wally isn't good enough, nor is stating over and over again that he's, like, the bestest Flash eva by diminishing Wally or adding moronic retcons like a dead mother or being the source of the Speed Force.

Wally took up the mantle from Barry and established himself as THE modern Flash. Having Barry come back and automatically take up that title unsurprisingly didn't work. At this point, I think the best options are either have Barry removed from the main DCU and allow him to flourish in his own continuity or make the fact that he was successfully succeeded by his nephew a central part of modern Barry's story and have him eke out a new place in the DCU with that reality driving him. Anything other than "business as usual", really.

[KC]

There is nothing Wally has done that makes him so perfect a modern Flash that Barry is obsolete. There is no need for Barry to do anything other than "business as usual" because Barry still has a place in the DC Universe by being the protector of Central City. Wally successfully took up the mantle but there is still space in the main DC Universe for Barry as the Flash.

[KC]

This was a good issue.

I have seen some fans online be harsh on Jai and Irey for jumping in the Speed Force portal, but they are ultimately still kids so it is expected.

[Digifiend]

They just want to prove themselves... and there's a reason Irey was the second Impulse. The name describes her just as well as it does Bart.

[Digifiend]

Oh yeah, I don't think he and Iris are even married again...

Yeah, they regained their pre-Flashpoint memories and thus remember being married - though Wallace isn't in those memories, and through them found out he only exists because of Flashpoint! After Death Metal, with the new everything happened status quo, I would imagine the marriage was fully restored, and they'd now remember Ace being there, as like Jon Kent, he's been implanted into history. With Barry out of the picture though due to Infinite Frontier, they haven't had chance to explore that.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

There is nothing Wally has done that makes him so perfect a modern Flash that Barry is obsolete. There is no need for Barry to do anything other than "business as usual" because Barry still has a place in the DC Universe by being the protector of Central City. Wally successfully took up the mantle but there is still space in the main DC Universe for Barry as the Flash.

I'm sorry, but after fifteen or whatever it is years of Barry being back, it has been proven time and time again that this isn't the case. Having both of them as the "main" Flash but just in two different cities just doesn't work - especially not when we're talking about characters who can cross the globe in the blink of an eye. Inevitably, one will be side lined for the other, as has happened ever since Barry returned.

And Wally has certainly been infinitely more successful as a modern Flash. Obviously, in my opinion. Not only has Barry's modern Flash run been only a fraction as good as Wally's book from Messner-Loebs to the end of Johns first run, but he has not caught on as a character with DC having to either knick stuff from Wally and put it on Barry or artificially inflate Barry at the expense of Wally. Certainly, it's not for nothing that on these boards at least, this Wally run has been wildly more popular than anything Barry was involved in this century. Adams is obviously a huge part of that but Wally just fits as the headline Flash in a way that Barry hasn't as of yet. And there's no two ways about it, I do think that most modern creators seem to have a greater affinity for Wally than Barry.

Again, I'm certainly not against having Barry in the DCU and I think he's a character with real potential but shoving Barry back as the main Flash and having Wally try to adjust to that is fundamentally less interesting than having a character who arguably represents the Silver Age better than any other trying to find his place in a world that has moved on.

[Johnny]

Wally took up the mantle from Barry and established himself as THE modern Flash. Having Barry come back and automatically take up that title unsurprisingly didn't work. At this point, I think the best options are either have Barry removed from the main DCU and allow him to flourish in his own continuity or make the fact that he was successfully succeeded by his nephew a central part of modern Barry's story and have him eke out a new place in the DCU with that reality driving him. Anything other than "business as usual", really.

Basically you think DC should develop the same mindset towards Barry that DiDio used to have towards Wally when he thought there was no real place left for him with Barry around. Now Barry's own story has to be about him "looking for his place" due to being "successfully replaced" by Wally? Yeah I'm not sure that's gonna work since I very much doubt that's what Barry fans want to read about.

[KC]

I'm sorry, but after fifteen or whatever it is years of Barry being back, it has been proven time and time again that this isn't the case. Having both of them as the "main" Flash but just in two different cities just doesn't work - especially not when we're talking about characters who can cross the globe in the blink of an eye. Inevitably, one will be side lined for the other, as has happened ever since Barry returned.

And Wally has certainly been infinitely more successful as a modern Flash. Obviously, in my opinion. Not only has Barry's modern Flash run been only a fraction as good as Wally's book from Messner-Loebs to the end of Johns first run, but he has not caught on as a character with DC having to either knick stuff from Wally and put it on Barry or artificially inflate Barry at the expense of Wally. Certainly, it's not for nothing that on these boards at least, this Wally run has been wildly more popular than anything Barry was involved in this century. Adams is obviously a huge part of that but Wally just fits as the headline Flash in a way that Barry hasn't as of yet. And there's no two ways about it, I do think that most modern creators seem to have a greater affinity for Wally than Barry.

Again, I'm certainly not against having Barry in the DCU and I think he's a character with real potential but shoving Barry back as the main Flash and having Wally try to adjust to that is fundamentally less interesting than having a character who arguably represents the Silver Age better than any other trying to find his place in a world that has moved on.

In the past 15 years, they have not been the Flash together in the Twin Cities long enough to judge if it works or not. But, considering they both have their own supporting casts, jobs, and motivations there is little to suggest that two books can't be made out of it.


a LOT of "Citation needed" is required for your second paragraph and it is mostly just your extremely subjective opinion rather than anything serious or concrete.

A lot of modern writers have an affinity for Wally because he is the Flash they grew up with. But these writers bringing in their nostalgia is somehow different from when writers who like Barry do it.

Strongly disagree, having Barry as a main Flash working in Central City is fundamentally more interesting than shoving him off to some corner of the Multiverse because Wally fans can't stand that Barry is also around.

[Kirk Brent]

Oh yeah, I don't think he and Iris are even married again...

That's because DiDio was openly against married superheroes. Now that he's gone, I'd say it's time for Barry and Iris to be happy and head to the 30th century.

It is kinda weird that Wally is married with kids and Barry is still technically single.

Dan DiDio was responsible for this as well. He didn't want married heroes and he hated Wally.

There is nothing Wally has done that makes him so perfect a modern Flash that Barry is obsolete. There is no need for Barry to do anything other than "business as usual" because Barry still has a place in the DC Universe by being the protector of Central City. Wally successfully took up the mantle but there is still space in the main DC Universe for Barry as the Flash.

Agree to disagree. Barry's no obsolete but Wally is the superior Flash based on duration and achievements alone.

And Wally has certainly been infinitely more successful as a modern Flash. Obviously, in my opinion. Not only has Barry's modern Flash run been only a fraction as good as Wally's book from Messner-Loebs to the end of Johns first run, but he has not caught on as a character with DC having to either knick stuff from Wally and put it on Barry or artificially inflate Barry at the expense of Wally. Certainly, it's not for nothing that on these boards at least, this Wally run has been wildly more popular than anything Barry was involved in this century. Adams is obviously a huge part of that but Wally just fits as the headline Flash in a way that Barry hasn't as of yet. And there's no two ways about it, I do think that most modern creators seem to have a greater affinity for Wally than Barry.

Again, I'm certainly not against having Barry in the DCU and I think he's a character with real potential but shoving Barry back as the main Flash and having Wally try to adjust to that is fundamentally less interesting than having a character who arguably represents the Silver Age better than any other trying to find his place in a world that has moved on.

Even if you didn't grow up reading Wally as the Flash like you and I clearly did (I was luck to get in on the ground floor from the first issue), it's evident that Wally is more developed and explored character. Wally had consistent and quality writing and development since Mike Baron was on the book all the way through Geoff Johns' run. I don't know how many years worth of stories that is, but even if Barry had more time, the sheer quality of Wally's time (outside of his own title included) as the Flash is much greater than Barry's. Barry's great and I think he should absolutely have a role in the DCU and can even remain a Flash, but his return has done nothing but damaged a character who had a rich and full arc that began with being a sidekick, taking up his mentor's mantle, and then excelling in ways Barry never did.

Basically you want them to have the same mindset towards Barry that DiDio used to have towards Wally when he thought he was too dependent on Barry. Now Barry's story has to be about him "looking for his place in the modern world" due to being "successfully replaced". Yeah I'm not sure that's gonna work since I very much doubt that's what Barry fans want to read about.

Wally fans didn't want to read that, either. There is a solution that can make both groups happy. DC is on the cusp of it with the multiverse-traveling Barry, but I don't know if that's going to stick.