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  1. #16
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Soul # 7 View Post
    Manga or anime versions of the characters that have both?

    Which state does Moro start out in?
    Is there Difference?
    Last edited by choptop; 06-22-2022 at 03:20 PM.

  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choptop View Post
    Is there a difference?
    Well, if Moro starts out in Florida he could end up getting mugged by sometime on bath salts before he can get to the ring.

  3. #18
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    With how silly dragon ball power levels are getting and how gas is being patred it seems like he can tak the other 3 by himself no prob and probably most the marvel and DC universe as well my god DBZ is out of control...

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choptop View Post
    With how silly dragon ball power levels are getting and how gas is being patred it seems like he can tak the other 3 by himself no prob and probably most the marvel and DC universe as well my god DBZ is out of control...
    God no. With Moro maybe since he has teleportation abilities but it's difficult to say. Jiren still stomps him though. In both mediums Jiren is > a G.o.D
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  5. #20
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    God no. With Moro maybe since he has teleportation abilities but it's difficult to say. Jiren still stomps him though. In both mediums Jiren is > a G.o.D
    This is simply false. Gas would pound and trounce Jiren. Gas pounds and trounces MUI Goku, the form that beat Jiren and would have won the ToP cleanly but instead Goku decides to monologue causing his power to run out. Granolah pounds and trounces that same MUI form prior to a couple of distinct power-ups, and is, himself, post-power-ups, pounded and trounced by Gas, more than once. Goku needs a whole new power-up to Sooper Dooper Mega With Smirk and Emotion and Quips Ultra Instinct (SDMWSEQUI for short) to start beating Gas, but of course Gas is about to get a power-up to "reveals true nature" level to make sure our pain continues for a while with this arc.
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  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    This is simply false. Gas would pound and trounce Jiren. Gas pounds and trounces MUI Goku, the form that beat Jiren and would have won the ToP cleanly but instead Goku decides to monologue causing his power to run out. Granolah pounds and trounces that same MUI form prior to a couple of distinct power-ups, and is, himself, post-power-ups, pounded and trounced by Gas, more than once. Goku needs a whole new power-up to Sooper Dooper Mega With Smirk and Emotion and Quips Ultra Instinct (SDMWSEQUI for short) to start beating Gas, but of course Gas is about to get a power-up to "reveals true nature" level to make sure our pain continues for a while with this arc.
    Lol no he wouldn't. Gas was having trouble with PUI Goku and Ego Vegeta, while Jiren just wasn't impressed with pui goku before outlasting him and sending Goku flying. I already told you there is a big difference between manga pui and anime pui, and explained it, so what're you doing considering the two are the same when the fight's were that much different?

    Have you even read the manga version of ToP? Can't blame you if you hadn't, it sucked. But Pui Goku was nothing to Jiren in the manga, there was no monologing in the manga version, Goku lost the transformation in the middle of fighting Jiren whom Pui Goku couldn't even harm in the manga who didn't even discover his buffed up form until well after Goku lost Pui.

    And Gran was outright inferior to pui goku(pretty much everything I said in our previous convo in another thread way back was vindicated when Gran and Gas fought as Grans duplication technique was once again stated to split the users power evenly while fighting Gas, meaning Pui Goku casually stomped a 50% Gran).

    PUI Goku in the manga barely harmed a Jiren holding back who laughed at the technique, and then failed to harm Jiren who pumped it to full and outlasted the transformation. If manga Goku had the power his anime counterpart had as PUI? Arc would have been over a loooong time ago.

    Also, pretty sure what we saw with Gas was the downside of the wish made to make him powerful. Him and Gran have a significant decrease in lifespan now, so he has become geriatric.
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  7. #22
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    If anything PUI in the manga was a lot more like UI -SIGN- was in the anime. Both in performance and power. PUI in the anime made Goku outright more powerful than both the GoDs and a buffed Jiren.
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  8. #23
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    Lol no he wouldn't. Gas was having trouble with PUI Goku and Ego Vegeta, while Jiren just wasn't impressed with pui goku before outlasting him and sending Goku flying. I already told you there is a big difference between manga pui and anime pui, and explained it, so what're you doing considering the two are the same when the fight's were that much different?

    Have you even read the manga version of ToP? Can't blame you if you hadn't, it sucked. But Pui Goku was nothing to Jiren in the manga, there was no monologing in the manga version, Goku lost the transformation in the middle of fighting Jiren whom Pui Goku couldn't even harm in the manga who didn't even discover his buffed up form until well after Goku lost Pui.

    And Gran was outright inferior to pui goku(pretty much everything I said in our previous convo in another thread way back was vindicated when Gran and Gas fought as Grans duplication technique was once again stated to split the users power evenly while fighting Gas, meaning Pui Goku casually stomped a 50% Gran).

    PUI Goku in the manga barely harmed a Jiren holding back who laughed at the technique, and then failed to harm Jiren who pumped it to full and outlasted the transformation. If manga Goku had the power his anime counterpart had as PUI? Arc would have been over a loooong time ago.

    Also, pretty sure what we saw with Gas was the downside of the wish made to make him powerful. Him and Gran have a significant decrease in lifespan now, so he has become geriatric.
    A couple of things:

    1. Yes, I sadly read the ToP arc in the manga, I've read all of it.

    2. You DO understand that the anime is primary canon for Super, right?

    3. No, UI Goku was not above UE Vegeta, who did better in every way against Granolah under equal circumstances.

    ANNNNND 4. No, if manga Goku had the same power as anime Goku (and it's just you saying that he doesn't, but let's go off of your hypothetical), he'd still have been losing to Gas, given that the nature of the freaking wish is that he's stronger than everybody who existed at the time it was made. This makes him stronger than Whis, stronger than Beerus, stronger than anyUIbeforeSDMWSEQUIsinceit'sanewform Goku, stronger than UE. It's what is actually on the pages and actually repeated, you know, repeatedly. For whatever reason, you have decided that Jiren is the strongerest ever, despite what we actually see on panel and on screen, and what is actually explained, and what is actually consistent with DB scaling forever.

    ANNNNNNNNND 5. Well, we'll see if Gas is geriatric, but I'm thinking it's more going to be "release his true nature" given that's a transformation he performed against Bardock and has not had to use against the Blue Boyz yet, but now that he's gone ahead and lost to SDMWSEQUI Goku (because of course he did), it makes sense to whip this out.

    EDIT: Also, it explicitly states that Gran's remaining life was shortened from 150 years to 2 years, and that compression is where the power-up came from. It doesn't make any sense that Gas, who was stronger than Gran before the wish, would need to go down to "several hours at the most" to jump back ahead of Gran.
    Last edited by big_adventure; 06-23-2022 at 09:22 AM.
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  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    A couple of things:

    1. Yes, I sadly read the ToP arc in the manga, I've read all of it.
    You have my condolences on your lost time

    2. You DO understand that the anime is primary canon for Super, right?
    Well we are talking manga here, not anime. Can't really compare the two they are different in how some of the forms function(even Blue). Technically neither medium is "primary" canon. Both are as canon as the other since AT isn't personally writing them(save for the movies),just providing rough drafts. Or by primary do you mean the one used most often?

    3. No, UI Goku was not above UE Vegeta, who did better in every way against Granolah under equal circumstances.
    Dude that's 2 scans that point out Grans power is split when he...... Splits. When a 50% Gran is stomped by a PUI Goku, how do you figure a full powered one would do better in the same circumstances? Gran stated the accuracy of PUI decreasing was what allowed him to get the drop on Goku, if he had instead been there himself, at full power, it is unlikely he would have done much better.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying PUI Goku was stronger than UE Vegeta. I think they are comparable but in different ways.

    ANNNNND 4. No, if manga Goku had the same power as anime Goku (and it's just you saying that he doesn't, but let's go off of your hypothetical)
    It isn't hypothetical, it's based off showings and statements.

    he'd still have been losing to Gas, given that the nature of the freaking wish is that he's stronger than everybody who existed at the time it was made. This makes him stronger than Whis, stronger than Beerus, stronger than anyUIbeforeSDMWSEQUIsinceit'sanewform Goku, stronger than UE. It's what is actually on the pages and actually repeated, you know, repeatedly. For whatever reason, you have decided that Jiren is the strongerest ever, despite what we actually see on panel and on screen, and what is actually explained, and what is actually consistent with DB scaling forever.
    Because this isn't true. The wish was to make them the strongest mortal in the universe. Not stronger than the gods or angels, and definitely not the strongest in the multiverse(Jiren isn't from their universe). There is no "for some reason". I'm going by feats and showings. Jiren laughed off manga Gokus PUI state, and was stated to be stronger than a G.od. Gran and Gas were only stronger than all mortals in their universe. That, was what was stated several times. The strongest MORTAL in the UNIVERSE. Not strongest being in the multiverse ^_^

    ANNNNNNNNND 5. Well, we'll see if Gas is geriatric, but I'm thinking it's more going to be "release his true nature" given that's a transformation he performed against Bardock and has not had to use against the Blue Boyz yet, but now that he's gone ahead and lost to SDMWSEQUI Goku (because of course he did), it makes sense to whip this out.
    Fyi his true nature was released when his brother took off his little head band. Plus, Gokus new state isn't a new form, just an improved UI, which Whis stated would happen at the beginning of the saga as Goku improves upon the form.

    EDIT: Also, it explicitly states that Gran's remaining life was shortened from 150 years to 2 years, and that compression is where the power-up came from. It doesn't make any sense that Gas, who was stronger than Gran before the wish, would need to go down to "several hours at the most" to jump back ahead of Gran.
    Depends on the wish. Iirc, the shortening of the wishers life-span was dependent on their potential. Could be Gas just had less potential? Idk, have to wait and see.
    Last edited by Cody; 06-23-2022 at 11:12 AM.
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  10. #25
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    So I guess power scaling it would go like this?

    Gas>>>>Moro>>>Broly>>>CELL MAX?>>>Jiren>>>Beerus>>>Frieza>>>Hit?

  11. #26
    Ultimate Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choptop View Post
    So I guess power scaling it would go like this?

    Gas>>>>Moro>>>Broly>>>CELL MAX?>>>Jiren>>>Beerus>>>Frieza>>>Hit?
    For now? Maybe? Though, Broly is barely acknowledged in the manga, and I doubt Super Hero will be as well. And the anime/films have clearly their own canon.

  12. #27
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    For now? Maybe? Though, Broly is barely acknowledged in the manga, and I doubt Super Hero will be as well. And the anime/films have clearly their own canon.
    Super hero and the Broly moves are Canon for now at least BOG and F are there own universe.

  13. #28
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choptop View Post
    So I guess power scaling it would go like this?

    Gas>>>>Moro>>>Broly>>>CELL MAX?>>>Jiren>>>Beerus>>>Frieza>>>Hit?
    I forgot about Goku black were does he fit in?

  14. #29

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    Isn’t Broly at his strongest above Jiren give the former required Golu and Vegeta to fuse to defeat? I believe Broly was also noted above the Gods of Destruction as well. Of course I could be wrong.

    I’m guessing Moro gets blitzed and one hit killed by everyone here. Gas especially with his Instant teleportation should be able to accomplish that…

  15. #30
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    You have my condolences on your lost time
    LOL Thanks man. You too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    Well we are talking manga here, not anime. Can't really compare the two they are different in how some of the forms function(even Blue). Technically neither medium is "primary" canon. Both are as canon as the other since AT isn't personally writing them(save for the movies),just providing rough drafts. Or by primary do you mean the one used most often?
    Everything has a primary canon - for Super it's apparently the anime and the Broly and I suppose Super Hero movies. That's what I've seen bandied about at any rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    Dude that's 2 scans that point out Grans power is split when he...... Splits. When a 50% Gran is stomped by a PUI Goku, how do you figure a full powered one would do better in the same circumstances? Gran stated the accuracy of PUI decreasing was what allowed him to get the drop on Goku, if he had instead been there himself, at full power, it is unlikely he would have done much better.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying PUI Goku was stronger than UE Vegeta. I think they are comparable but in different ways.
    You kind of make the point yourself... the 50% version gets beaten, but the 100% version wins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    It isn't hypothetical, it's based off showings and statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    Because this isn't true. The wish was to make them the strongest mortal in the universe. Not stronger than the gods or angels, and definitely not the strongest in the multiverse(Jiren isn't from their universe). There is no "for some reason". I'm going by feats and showings. Jiren laughed off manga Gokus PUI state, and was stated to be stronger than a G.od. Gran and Gas were only stronger than all mortals in their universe. That, was what was stated several times. The strongest MORTAL in the UNIVERSE. Not strongest being in the multiverse ^_^
    The wish for Gran wasn't to make him the strongest mortal in the universe, it was to be the strongest warrior in the universe. And wasn't the Gas one off-panel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    Fyi his true nature was released when his brother took off his little head band. Plus, Gokus new state isn't a new form, just an improved UI, which Whis stated would happen at the beginning of the saga as Goku improves upon the form.
    Nah dude, it's definitely being treated by the author as a new upgraded form, hence it being able to beat the guy who is stronger than Gran and PUI and UE and whatever. They even touch on this specifically: when PUI and UE are fighting Gas, Elec chatting with the others states that Gas is still stronger than they are because these are the same forms they already had when the wish was made. And of course new hair generally equals new form for a Saiyan.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    Depends on the wish. Iirc, the shortening of the wishers life-span was dependent on their potential. Could be Gas just had less potential? Idk, have to wait and see.
    Gas was already stronger than Gran prior to the relative wishes. But anyway, we're going to find out next month as long as we don't get another 3 stupid issues of flashbacks. If I never see Bardock again, it'll be too soon.
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