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  1. #31
    Reborn Samurai Len Ikari145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post




    Everything has a primary canon - for Super it's apparently the anime and the Broly and I suppose Super Hero movies. That's what I've seen bandied about at any rate.
    Just to add my cents on this - In both Broly and Super Hero interviews, Toriyama states that he wrote the movies with the anime continuity in mind(Super Hero even has references to the Super anime series).
    Last edited by Len Ikari145; 06-24-2022 at 07:55 PM.
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  2. #32
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choptop View Post
    So I guess power scaling it would go like this?

    Gas>>>>Moro>>>Broly>>>CELL MAX?>>>Jiren>>>Beerus>>>Frieza>>>Hit?
    Gas, Moro, and Cell Max are not stronger than Beerus and Jiren. Broly might be slightly stronger than Beerus, maybe. But that's it.
    Last edited by Cody; 06-25-2022 at 06:41 AM.
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  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    LOL Thanks man. You too.




    Everything has a primary canon - for Super it's apparently the anime and the Broly and I suppose Super Hero movies. That's what I've seen bandied about at any rate.



    You kind of make the point yourself... the 50% version gets beaten, but the 100% version wins.






    The wish for Gran wasn't to make him the strongest mortal in the universe, it was to be the strongest warrior in the universe. And wasn't the Gas one off-panel?



    Nah dude, it's definitely being treated by the author as a new upgraded form, hence it being able to beat the guy who is stronger than Gran and PUI and UE and whatever. They even touch on this specifically: when PUI and UE are fighting Gas, Elec chatting with the others states that Gas is still stronger than they are because these are the same forms they already had when the wish was made. And of course new hair generally equals new form for a Saiyan.




    Gas was already stronger than Gran prior to the relative wishes. But anyway, we're going to find out next month as long as we don't get another 3 stupid issues of flashbacks. If I never see Bardock again, it'll be too soon.
    Oh make no mistake, a 100% Gran who knows how to use his new power effectively would beat manga pui Goku. Way I see it is PUI Goku has more offense game than UE Vegeta but is a bit of a glass Cannon while the accuracy of the form decreases. UE Vegeta is a goddamn tank, but the form makes him even more cocky than usual.

    And you're right, Gas wish was off panel while Grans wish was to be the strongest warrior in the universe, I got confused between than and the oracle fish talking about the strongest mortal. I still don't see either of them touching Jiren or Beerus though.

    And I've read that apparently the movies are also canon to the manga? With the events the the BoG and FnF movies being combined with their manga counterparts. So it's kind of weird. I remember seeing an FnF movie scene being referenced in the manga, but it's been a while so I don't remember.
    Last edited by Cody; 06-25-2022 at 06:40 AM.
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  4. #34
    Reborn Samurai Len Ikari145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post

    And I've read that apparently the movies are also canon to the manga? With the events the the BoG and FnF movies being combined with their manga counterparts. So it's kind of weird. I remember seeing an FnF movie scene being referenced in the manga, but it's been a while so I don't remember.
    Eh, it's a case of the primary canon influencing the secondary canon, but not the other way. While events of the anime will play out in the manga adaptation, the same isn't the case for the anime. Toriyama and Akio Iyoku (the head of the Dragon Ball Room) have established that the Super anime and manga exist as completely separate continuities; Toyotaro even recently tweeted the manga would continue being its own thing after the SH movie. It's why Super Hero completely ignores Toyotaro's Galactic Prisoner and Granolah arcs, with the movie even stating that the last major fight was with Broly, which was a couple of years ago in the anime timeline (while in the manga, Goku mentions his battle with Broly to Merus, with that battle being a few weeks ago).
    Last edited by Len Ikari145; 06-25-2022 at 08:14 AM.
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  5. #35
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len Ikari145 View Post
    Eh, it's a case of the primary canon influencing the secondary canon, but not the other way. While events of the anime will play out in the manga adaptation, the same isn't the case for the anime. Toriyama and Akio Iyoku (the head of the Dragon Ball Room) have established that the Super anime and manga exist as completely separate continuities; Toyotaro even recently tweeted the manga would continue being its own thing after the SH movie. It's why Super Hero completely ignores Toyotaro's Galactic Prisoner and Granolah arcs, with the movie even stating that the last major fight was with Broly, which was a couple of years ago in the anime timeline (while in the manga, Goku mentions his battle with Broly to Merus, with that battle being a few weeks ago).
    Is there a real difference with the manga vs anime?

  6. #36
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    Gas, Moro, and Cell Max are not stronger than Beerus and Jiren. Broly might be slightly stronger than Beerus, maybe. But that's it.
    How do you figure?

  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choptop View Post
    How do you figure?
    I explained above already. There is nothing to suggest Moro reached the same level as Beerus when Beerus was about to intervene and kill Moro had Goku and Co hadn't taken care of it, with both Whis and Beerus confident Beerus would have put a stop to Moro. While Jiren was presented and stated as being stronger than a G.o.D. Goku and Vegeta(in the manga) aren't on the same level as Beerus yet, so there isn't really any indication Gas and Gran are remotely close to their level yet when their only stronger than two guys who are also weaker than Beerus and Whis.

    Cell Max just seem stronger than SSB, and maybe SSBE/SSBKKx20. Not much else.
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  8. #38
    Ultimate Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choptop View Post
    Is there a real difference with the manga vs anime?
    Manga has things like "perfected Blue", "Ultra Ego", Moro and Gas arcs, Vegeta learning Instant Transmission, Goku trying Hakai, a pretty different Tournament of Power, and a VERY different Future Trunks arc.

    Just off the top of my head.

  9. #39
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Manga has things like "perfected Blue", "Ultra Ego", Moro and Gas arcs, Vegeta learning Instant Transmission, Goku trying Hakai, a pretty different Tournament of Power, and a VERY different Future Trunks arc.

    Just off the top of my head.
    Can you tell me a little more about the tournament of power and future trunks arcs if you have time?

  10. #40
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choptop View Post
    Can you tell me a little more about the tournament of power and future trunks arcs if you have time?
    You can just read them on-line :-)

    The arcs aren't functionally different, they are just portrayed somewhat differently. ToP still has Vegeta against Toppo, Goku going UI and MUI, Goku and Frieza knocking Jiren off, 17 being the last man standing, etc. Future Trunks still has VB, has SOH Trunks, the Zamasu twins, and Zeno. There are just some differences in the portrayals of the individual conflicts. And of course they drag it out less.
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  11. #41
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    You can just read them on-line :-)

    The arcs aren't functionally different, they are just portrayed somewhat differently. ToP still has Vegeta against Toppo, Goku going UI and MUI, Goku and Frieza knocking Jiren off, 17 being the last man standing, etc. Future Trunks still has VB, has SOH Trunks, the Zamasu twins, and Zeno. There are just some differences in the portrayals of the individual conflicts. And of course they drag it out less.
    Were do you read them at?

  12. #42
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    *brakes screeching to a halt*

    Before anyone posts links to their favorite scan sites, I'd like to put up a reminder that doing so is against some rule somewhere on CBR. Ie, don't do so in a public thread.
    Why are we here?

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  13. #43
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    First of all, I had actually managed to avoid most spoilers about the Super Hero movie, so seeing the surprise antagonist casually mentioned in a thread that initially didn't even include the surprise antagonist is just a wee bit really annoying.
    Quote Originally Posted by choptop View Post
    Is there Difference?
    Yes there is.

    In the arcs that are in both the manga and anime, the antagonists are generally less powerful by presentation. Which by extension kinda means that the heroes aren't as impressive when defeating them.

    For example:
    - Goku only uses SSB against Hit and never brings out Kaio-ken to keep up with the Time-stops. In the manga Vegeta also gets an explanation for why he lost to Hit (activating SSB apparently drains tons of stamina and Vegeta had done so twice at this point). In the anime Hit just flat out kicks his ass and Vegeta gets no saving grace. Magetta also puts up way less of a fight against Vegeta in the manga.

    - The manga versions of Goku Black and Zamasu are just kinda sad and pathetic powerwise compared to their anime incarnations as they get beat up way more in the manga. Fused Zamasu doesn't fair much better. In the anime he's doing a fairly good job of trading blows with Vegito, while in the manga he's kinda humiliated. And when the Vegito fusion wears off Goku is able to attain some more controlled state of SSB and fights Fused Zamasu evenly

    - Manga Kefla fights Gohan to a standstill, which is just not as impressive as her battle against Goku in the anime. Toppo doesn't get to power up to his G.o.D. mode. Goku uses SSJ3 instead of SSB to test 17 (which misses the entire point of using the well-controlled SSB over the mega-draining SSJ3 for testing purposes). Jiren fares better in that he actually beats UI Goku, but there's not as many universe shaking moments as in the anime.

    So generally the characters just aren't as impressive in the manga continuity as they are in the anime continuity.

    And the level of Moro's power vary great depending on which point in the arc we're talking about. At one point Majin Buu could kick his ass since he was immune to his power draining.

  14. #44
    Ultimate Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    *brakes screeching to a halt*

    Before anyone posts links to their favorite scan sites, I'd like to put up a reminder that doing so is against some rule somewhere on CBR. Ie, don't do so in a public thread.
    viz media website, which is legal. But they only keep the 3 most recent chapters as free.

  15. #45
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    viz media website, which is legal. But they only keep the 3 most recent chapters as free.
    All good there.
    Why are we here?

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    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik
    "Why throw punches when you can be making everyone around you sterile mutant corpses?" - Pendaran, regarding Dr. Fate

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