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  1. #121
    Astonishing Member Habis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dipter View Post
    When Apocalypse was on Krakoa every conversation on these boards were people calling him daddy material and such. Now that he's gone y'all are talking shit about him behind his back. I see how it is...
    I have always said that it was insane that he was accepted in Krakoa after all the horrible stuff he had done over the years. The X-Men and adjacent groups should have rebelled against Xavier and Magneto (Apocalypse has caused suffering and loss to almost all of them...). Also, AvX II should have started the same day it was revealed that he sat on the QC.

  2. #122
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    I was okay with Apocalypse's presence in the vein of a political angle that was at most tolerated to get Krakoa up and running, and I do like that it made way for stories about Arakko and its mutants, but I always hated the Apocalypse and Rictor stuff and thought it was massively OOC for Julio. I think they could have threaded the needle between characters in general tolerating him vs being cool with him a lot better than they did. (And obviously, there were still those who distrusted him like Rogue and Remy, but they could have leaned into that more I feel). Its just that I only vented about it a couple of times and didn't bring it up every time Julio or Apocalypse was mentioned.

    Course, to be fair, that's mostly because I'm a little busy always making everything about Bobby. I can only do so much.
    Last edited by BobbysWorld; 06-25-2022 at 05:50 PM.

  3. #123
    Mighty Member Outburstz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habis View Post
    I have always said that it was insane that he was accepted in Krakoa after all the horrible stuff he had done over the years. The X-Men and adjacent groups should have rebelled against Xavier and Magneto (Apocalypse has caused suffering and loss to almost all of them...). Also, AvX II should have started the same day it was revealed that he sat on the QC.
    It's like you just miss the whole point of Krakoa or something

  4. #124
    Astonishing Member Habis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    It's like you just miss the whole point of Krakoa or something
    And you don't seem to understand normal human emotions.

    Apocalypse has done HORRIBLE things to Warren, to the the whole Summers clan, to Wolverine, to Gambit, to Ship... etc. Hell, Rachel and Cable's entire reason to live was to fight Apocalypse's regime during most of their adult lives, Jean and Scott spent more time fighting Apocalypse's regime in Cable's future than they have spent as X-Men. Plus, he has tried to force the governments of the world to kill 99 % of the world's population...

    They all should hate his guts and they should be terrified of him... how could they accept it so easily when Xavier went "we are going to invite Apocalypse to live with us, and we are going to make him part of our government; it will be okay, he just need more cuddles...".

  5. #125
    Mighty Member Outburstz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habis View Post
    And you don't seem to understand normal human emotions.

    Apocalypse has done HORRIBLE things to Warren, to the the whole Summers clan, to Wolverine, to Gambit, to Ship... etc. Hell, Rachel and Cable's entire reason to live was to fight Apocalypse's regime during most of their adult lives, Jean and Scott spent more time fighting Apocalypse's regime in Cable's future than they have spent as X-Men. Plus, he has tried to force the governments of the world to kill 99 % of the world's population...

    They all should hate his guts and they should be terrified of him... how could they accept it so easily when Xavier went "we are going to invite Apocalypse to live with us, and we are going to make him part of our government; it will be okay, he just need more cuddles...".
    Because it is for the greater good of mutants.

    No one has said that they need to be friends with Apoc but mutants constantly fighting each other has lead to them being is the dismal state that they were in previous. You see how much of a force mutants are now that they are not constantly attacking each other on a galactic and realm scale.

    Hickman had Magneto and Apoc make it pretty clear that they were going to play the humans game against them and do it better. I don't need to give you a history lesson on how many countries and people who have worked with evil for the sake of their countries prosperity do I?

  6. #126
    Astonishing Member Habis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    Because it is for the greater good of mutants.

    No one has said that they need to be friends with Apoc but mutants constantly fighting each other has lead to them being is the dismal state that they were in previous. You see how much of a force mutants are now that they are not constantly attacking each other on a galactic and realm scale.

    Hickman had Magneto and Apoc make it pretty clear that they were going to play the humans game against them and do it better. I don't need to give you a history lesson on how many countries and people who have worked with evil for the sake of their countries prosperity do I?
    This is not about some government working with some foreign terrorist group. This is not about some voter giving the benefit of the doubt to a politician who has signed a friendship pact with a dictator... this is close and personal; this is about sitting at the same table with the guy who kidnapped your baby and infected him with a techno-virus that is still devouring him as an adult, forcing you to send him to a hellish future world where he grew fighting; this is about forgiving the monster who kidnapped you, brainwashed you and turned you into a monster, forcing you to kill innocent people and to fight your own friends; this is this is about trusting a killer of millions to have power over you and your loved ones...

    And the X-Men not only accept it, they don't even show resentment or frustration, they are happy and optimistic about it... it looks like they have been brainwashed into shedding their human emotions and becoming patriotic robots, like some fanatic suicide bomber...

    And anyways, even if the X-Men are okay with forgiving Apocalypse... why do they think bringing him is really for the greater good of their race/country/whatever...? How can they be so sure he won't destroy Krakoa from the inside? The guy has raised a rebellious faction in Attilan in order to seize power, he has purposely provoked wars between humans and mutants for the sake of his Darwinist ideology, he has captured powerful mutants and tried to eat their powers...! How can they be so sure he won't do it again...?

    Not to mention that presenting Apocalypse as one of their rulers should have provoked Krakoa to be bombed with singularity bombs by the terrorized governments of the world...
    Last edited by Habis; 06-25-2022 at 07:08 PM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobbysWorld View Post
    I was okay with Apocalypse's presence in the vein of a political angle that was at most tolerated to get Krakoa up and running, and I do like that it made way for stories about Arakko and its mutants, but I always hated the Apocalypse and Rictor stuff and thought it was massively OOC for Julio. I think they could have threaded the needle between characters in general tolerating him vs being cool with him a lot better than they did. (And obviously, there were still those who distrusted him like Rogue and Remy, but they could have leaned into that more I feel). Its just that I only vented about it a couple of times and didn't bring it up every time Julio or Apocalypse was mentioned.

    Course, to be fair, that's mostly because I'm a little busy always making everything about Bobby. I can only do so much.
    Oh, they made Gambit distrust Apocalypse...but they also regularly portrayed him as wrong for distrusting Apocalypse, so we got two characters OOC because they tried reverse character shilling to try and get Apocalypse over.

    And yeah, let's be clear, asking some people in Krakoa to have accepted Apocalypse as their leader would be in the same vein as asking cubans who fled Castro's regime to accept him being in charge of their government, you are asking people to accept as a personal leader someone who has personally abused, terrorized, and done horrible crap to them. It only worked because the plot asked it to.

  8. #128
    Mighty Member Outburstz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habis View Post
    This is not about some government working with some foreign terrorist group. This is not about some voter giving the benefit of the doubt to a politician who has signed a friendship pact with a dictator... this is close and personal; this is about sitting at the same table with the guy who kidnapped your baby and infected him with a techno-virus that is still devouring him as an adult, forcing you to send him to a hellish future world where he grew fighting; this is about forgiving the monster who kidnapped you, brainwashed you and turned you into a monster, forcing you to kill innocent people and to fight your own friends; this is this is about trusting a killer of millions to have power over you and your loved ones...
    Mutant prosperity is very personal to the people who have been fighting for it their whole lives. All those things you listed I can name even more that humans have done to mutants.

    No one is asking them to forgive Apoc, like Apoc, trust Apoc, none of that. He is allowed on that island just like anyone else and due to his knowledge and expertise and yes power he was a welcomed asset to Krakoa.



    And the X-Men not only accept it, they don't even show resentment or frustration, they are happy and optimistic about it... it looks like they have been brainwashed into shedding their human emotions and becoming patriotic robots, like some fanatic suicide bomber...
    Nobody is brainwashed it's just counter productive to the advancement of Krakoa. You sitting in the corner making frowny faces at Apoc isn't doing anything.

    And anyways, even if the X-Men are okay with forgiving Apocalypse... why do they think bringing him is really for the greater good of their race/country/whatever...? How can they be so sure he won't destroy Krakoa from the inside? The guy has raised a rebellious faction in Attilan in order to seize power, he has purposely provoked wars between humans and mutants for the sake of his Darwinist ideology, he has captured powerful mutants and tried to eat their powers...! How can they be so sure he won't do it again...?
    You don't that's the whole point of the second chance that Krakoa is giving to all mutants. It's a clean slate for different sides that have done horrid things to each other over the years to put it all aside for mutants as a whole to get ahead. Some will make the most of their 2nd chance like Silver Samurai, Apoc, and Exodus while others won't like Brand, Fenris Twins, Cassandra Nova, and Sabretooth just won't.

    Not to mention that presenting Apocalypse as on of their rulers should have provoked Krakoa to be bombed with singularity bombs by the terrorized governments of the world...
    The vast majority are not going to risk ruining the Krakoa drug deal and as for the governments that hate mutants it really doesn't matter who is running Krakoa because they will be anti Krakoa just because it is run by mutants.

  9. #129

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    I don't exactly see anyone playing Connect Four with Apocalypse. With the exception of Julio (which I admit is weird), he's tolerated at best. Betsy and him had words several times and Rogue had no problem beating him and killing him, which was fun to witness. And then he played a big role in the defeat of the Amenth demons and continues to fight them. It just is what it is.

    But I would like to see a tense confrontation between him and Cable when he returns.
    Krakoa and Arakko forever!

  10. #130
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    We get it Outburstz, emotions are for dummies.

    Also the mutant solidarity consumes all. If you do not support mutant solidarity you are not a true mutant. Good thing no one on Krakoa questions giving them second chances.

  11. #131
    Mighty Member Outburstz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saithor View Post
    We get it Outburstz, emotions are for dummies.

    Also the mutant solidarity consumes all. If you do not support mutant solidarity you are not a true mutant. Good thing no one on Krakoa questions giving them second chances.
    If you are not for mutant solidarity why would you come to a mutant nation

    Emotions isn't the problem. You can feel what ever. The problem is Hubris wanted the mutants to not have Apoc on the island. That's not emotion that's action that is counter to Krakoa success.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    If you are not for mutant solidarity why would you come to a mutant nation

    Emotions isn't the problem. You can feel what ever. The problem is Hubris wanted the mutants to not have Apoc on the island. That's not emotion that's action that is counter to Krakoa success.
    He doesn’t even want that, he wants the characters to be characters and remember what Appcalypse did to them. This is like when Hellions had to answer the question of wether or not the Morlocks actually remembered Sinister’s massacre of them

  13. #133
    Mighty Member Outburstz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saithor View Post
    He doesn’t even want that, he wants the characters to be characters and remember what Appcalypse did to them. This is like when Hellions had to answer the question of wether or not the Morlocks actually remembered Sinister’s massacre of them
    Dude the very first post on this page is Habris saying "it's insane that they accepted Apoc in Krakoa"

  14. #134
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I mean, if they already let in Sinister...

  15. #135
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    So here’s the thing. Apocalypse couldn’t even get to Otherworld without Betsy and them opening the gate. So how did he get to Otherworld to help Mercator to claim a region prior to him getting Jamie on the thrown of Avalon? Tini is not a good writer at all.

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