Knights of X #3 Spoilers/Review

[Jwyatt]

Ah yes I think it was Stryfe who killed his father during a gun-selling deal, that's right, who was of course reared by Apocalypse to be sadistic. Julio's family ran a gun-smuggling syndicate and he spent time in prison with his father actually.

Wow, I must say I've gotten no hint of that history in reading Howard's Excalibur/KoX

[JB]

Wow, I must say I've gotten no hint of that history in reading Howard's Excalibur/KoX

Yeah, Howard has made some decent references to the past (Otherworld, STRIKE, etc.) but when it comes to Rictor, not really.

[BobbysWorld]

Yeah, it has to do with Stryfe's connection to Apocalypse of course, because that event shaped Julio's life in a huge way. You gotta understand that from the second Julio first saw Cable - who of course at first glance he assumed to be the same man he'd seen kill his father years before - he was OBSESSED with bringing Cable-who-he-thought-was-Stryfe down by ANY means necessary. Its how the Weapon X program got him to join their Weapon Prime team and go hunt Cable down, even though this put Julio in direct conflict with Cable's X-Force teammates, who Julio himself had known for years before Cable ever came along, like Tabitha. The only thing that stopped Julio was finding out that Stryfe was a different person entirely, and that he was the one responsible for the death of Julio's father.

On top of that, Rusty and Skids were two of Julio's best friends, from their time together as X-Terminators, the wards of the 05 when they were X-Factor. And Stryfe additionally was the one who kidnapped Rusty and Skids, and brainwashed them into becoming loyal members of his MLF team and fighting against Julio and the rest of X-Force....and when their brainwashing was broken, they were so affected by what had happened to them that they refused to go back with X-Force OR the X-Men, saying they needed distance from all that, which is what led them to accept Exodus' offer to go back to Asteroid M with him. And that of course led into Rusty being murdered by Holocaust when Exodus found him and brought him on board Asteroid M as well.

So Rictor like, hates Stryfe with the fiery passion of a thousand burning suns, and he additionally hates anything and everything Stryfe is associated with. And due to his long time association with X-Force and Cable, Julio has for years known everything there is to know about Stryfe and why he's the way he is, how he's Cable's clone and was created by Apocalypse, raised by Apocalypse, pitted against Cable by Apocalypse....Apocalypse's connection to Stryfe is NOT a minor thing, by any stretch of the imagination. Without Apocalypse, there IS no Stryfe.

But!

Its not even JUST Apocalypse's connection to Stryfe that SHOULD be the issue.

Because thing is, the primary X-Terminator kids: Rusty, Skids, Julio and Tabitha....they were wards of X-Factor for a LONG fucking time. We're talking being rescued and offered a home with them on board their sentient starship Ship, like, in the first twenty issues of X-Factor....and remaining with X-Factor all the way until the 05 returned to being X-Men, and X-Factor became government sponsored. Its literally ONLY then that the X-Terminator teens linked up with X-Force, Weapon X, the MLF, etc. So we're talking close to a decade, real time, and well over fifty or sixty issues of X-Factor content - although of course they weren't in every issue, but the point is they were living with the 05, being raised by them as they were all orphaned teens, and trained and mentored by them the same way the New Mutants were trained and mentored by a succession of Xavier, the X-Men, Magneto, etc.

Unlike the New Mutants and their various mentors, the 05's presence in Julio, Rusty, Skids, Wiz Kid and Tabitha's lives....was a LOT steadier and without as many interruptions. Like I said, they all lived on board a freaking spaceship together, etc. But the way X-Men Red is acknowledging the connection and history between Roberto and Magneto, and building off the fact that they actually know each other very well, and have emotional ties due to their time as teacher and student? Julio has that same bond, and even MORE history, with the 05 from the original X-Factor days.

In Howard's defense, its not like anyone else ever seems to remember to build on any of that - even with the frequent hangouts where Rictor and Bobby are friends along with JP because they're like, the gay X-Men friend group, lol....it never comes up that like, Julio and Bobby didn't just start hanging out when Bobby came out....they go WAY back, the 05 are the ones who originally rescued Julio from being tortured and used by The Right, and who taught him how not to be afraid of his earthquake powers, and Bobby was ALWAYS the member of X-Factor that Rusty, Skids, Julio and Tabitha were closest to, and was like their cool older brother figure, personal mentor/shoulder to lean on etc. (Also why the brief mention of Bobby and Rictor maybe going on a date in Grace's Iceman run was so....lol no thank you, to me. Even being a Ricstar shipper, the bigger issue was I was like, umm, Rictor is little baby to Bobby. He remembers when Julio was a wee little Bambi, running around being an awkward teenager while Bobby was literally a college graduate. Their dynamic was never that of two same-aged friends with similar life experiences, and would be nice to see that mentioned in all the Rictor and Bobby hang-outs we see in the background these days. Bobby was more like Julio's personal Yoda when he was a teenager, than he was like, Julio's bestie. Also, Tabitha had an EPIC crush on Bobby throughout ALL of X-Factor, and I thus of course headcanon that Bobby was probably Rictor's first big gay crush as well, BUT I DIGRESS).

Anyway, has to be mentioned that Julio and the other X-Terminator teens being closest with Bobby was largely logistical, because although they lived with all of the 05....the other four had a LOT going on during the X-Factor years, which meant that logistically, a lot of the teens' training and mentoring just naturally fell in Bobby's lap. Scott and Jean were dealing with what her return meant for their relationship, and Scott's with Maddie, as well as raising baby Cable, up until Cable was sent to the future to save him, and then they were well, mourning him, basically - even if he wasn't dead, they believed him lost to them forever. Hank was going through not just physical changes as events shifted him back and forth between his blue furry form and his original form....but throughout X-Factor, due to a combination of his own experiments and stuff various villains like Infectia did to him, his changed states were ALSO accompanied by changes in his intelligence. For a long time there was a direct correlation where like, the more human he got, the less intelligent he got, until he reached points where he could no longer think clearly or remember his own name, so like....he wasn't up for much mentoring in those days.

The last two figures in the X-Terminator teens' lives however - well technically three, I should say - are why I mention all of this, and critical to why Julio ABSOLUTELY should hate Apocalypse's guts, and always has in the past. Warren...and also Caliban and Ship itself. Remember, X-Factor is the run that originally introduced Apocalypse. He didn't just pop up in a single story here and there. His presence is ALL OVER that original X-Factor run of about ninety issues. It is impossible to separate Apocalypse and his impact from those stories, or that time period in the 05's lives...but ALSO the lives of the teens who lived with them.

Firstly, Ship himself was a sentient piece of Celestial technology that X-Factor literally liberated from Apocalypse after being unwillingly under his control for thousands of years. Which is what led Ship to offer X-Factor his loyalty and himself as a place for them to live, in gratitude for his rescue. (Ship always referred to himself as a he). Ship very much was a sentient intelligence, with his own distinct personality. He was to the X-Terminator teens not that different from Warlock's dynamic with the New Mutants. Julio and the others treated him as a confidante, he offered them advice, he regularly expressed concern for them, like there were definite emotional ties there.

Of course, Ship's not around anymore. Not in his old form at least, his original personality completely erased and in effect 'dead.' Three guesses whose fault that is? Apocalypse does not like when people take what he considers to be his.

[BobbysWorld]

Then there's the Warren issue. Julio and the other teens actually knew Warren before the Mutant Massacre, when he still had his original wings. That was the Warren who first helped rescue and train Julio, gave him a place to live with the 05 and made him feel safe there....and Julio was very much present and witness to Warren's depression when he did lose his wings....as well as being among those grieving when Warren was believed dead after Apocalypse blew up his plane and teleported him to his labs, although it was believed to be a suicide until Warren's return as Archangel. But point is, Julio was absolutely personally affected by EVERYTHING Apocalypse did to Warren from the first moment he interacted with Warren....because Julio looked up to Warren as well, originally saw him in much the same way he saw Bobby. And even once Warren did return to X-Factor, after first fighting them as the brainwashed Archangel and only snapping out of it when Bobby tricked him into slicing one of his ice duplicates in half with his wings and believing he'd killed his oldest friend....the Warren who returned to X-Factor, and the X-Terminator kids, was NOT the same as the one they'd known before his 'death.' Understandably, this Warren was hella depressed and withdrawn for pretty much the entirety of the rest of the X-Factor run, and years into his time as an X-Man again....he was moody and aloof, and would keep himself away from the rest of the 05 and their teenage wards, because he believed himself to be a danger to them all and wouldn't be convinced otherwise. Once again, one of the people Julio was closest to was irrevocably altered by Apocalypse's machinations. Originally, Julio HATED Apocalypse for what he'd done to Warren, even without anything else. The X-Terminator kids only directly interacted with Apocalypse once...mmm, maybe twice. But it was ON SITE for Julio. This kid was NOT a fan. And this was well before he found out any connection between Apocalypse and his father's murderer.

But!

There's more!

Because there's Caliban. One of the Morlocks that the 05 rescued from the Mutant Massacre, and who they gave a place to stay in its aftermath. Eventually the other Morlock refugees took their leave of X-Factor and returned to the tunnels to rebuild their community, but Caliban stayed when the others all left, because he'd grown attached to the X-Terminator teens who used to hang out with the Morlocks all the time while they recovered from the Massacre. The other Morlocks leaving and Caliban staying happened around the time Warren's plane blew up and he was first believed dead, and that's a large part of the reason WHY Caliban stayed....he saw that the teens basically only had Bobby to consistently lean on at the moment, and wanted to be another reliable older presence in their lives. Originally, Caliban was a very intelligent, gentle person. Towards the end of the 05's time as X-Factor, after Apocalypse gave up on getting Warren to return to being his Horseman of Death....Apocalypse then offered the position of Horseman to Caliban, told him he could make him more powerful, stronger, able to take revenge on those who slaughtered his family, the Morlocks. Caliban accepted, because well. Trauma. All of that changed him in a big way.

Apocalypse changed him the rest of the way. The Caliban who Rictor encountered next, after seeing one of the last stable adult presences in his life leave with Apocalypse.....he was NOTHING like the Caliban who once helped raise and train and mentor Julio and the others. Caliban, post-Apocalypse's tinkering, was a seemingly mindless being who pretty much existed in a constant state of bloodlust. He eventually 'calmed down' a bit and joined X-Force himself for a little while, but like, it took Tabitha being constantly at his side to calm him down and pull him out of his rages, largely because of the reminder she represented of who he used to be. But Caliban, after his association with Apocalypse, much like Warren was never the same again. Totally changed from the person Rictor first knew and loved as a kind of family....and not in a positive way.

So Ship, Warren and Caliban - three very influential figures in teenage Rictor's life, who he was close with, and who he witnessed have their lives (or existences in Ship's case) be outright torpedoed by Apocalypse's 'intervention' in their lives....all for the gain of his own personal agendas, not caring the impact he had on them. And add to that the fact that Apocalypse being a sadistic, manipulative dick is basically the origin story of the murderer of Rictor's father.

And then lastly....there's Cable himself.

Because it also doesn't get mentioned enough that like.....Rictor used to change his eventual mentor's diapers as a baby. LOL. Not to make it weird, but like, it already was, so oh well. But after Inferno, baby Nathan came to live with Scott and Jean on board Ship until he was eventually sent to the future. Which meant....he also lived with the X-Terminator teens, who all DOTED on this baby. Like, the New Mutants who eventually became X-Force - technically they met their future mentor Cable before Rictor and Tabitha did, because of a BRIEF time when their paths crossed with the X-Men while Maddie and baby Cable were still with them. But Rictor and Tabitha knew him as a baby for much longer, and were much closer to the infant, than any of the New Mutants ever got the opportunity to be. Like, they were Nathan's frequent babysitters. They used to play with him while X-Factor was off on a mission or Scott and Jean were Going Through It and Warren was off brooding in solitude and Hank was locked up in his lab trying to fix his intelligence/appearance issues. Its also forgotten that Cable's Uncle Bobby was his most frequent and closest adult presence after Scott and Jean for the same logistical reasons he was the most stable figure in Julio and the others' lives...which as a Bobby stan I gripe about and wish would come up more often or y'know, even just once in all the decades they've interacted, BUT I DIGRESS. Point is, much like Bobby.....Julio, Tabitha, Rusty and Skids were big presences in baby Cable's life, and he in theirs. When he had to be sent to the future - with all of them believing they'd never see him again - in order to save him from the T-O virus Apocalypse infected him with.....Julio and the other X-Terminator teens were devastated. This was a LOSS to them, a big one. Those teenagers had adored that baby, even if he'd probably only been with them for about a year in comic book in-universe time.

And once again, who was directly responsible for the loss of baby Nathan, and everything that happened to that little kid Julio, Tabs and the others used to dote on, to harden him and eventually turn him into the jaded, war-weary adult Julio eventually met and knew as Cable?

Ding ding ding. It was Apocalypse, Julio's supposed crush slash mentor slash "I owe him everything" according to Howard's Excalibur.

Like. Make it make sense.

Explain to me why Julio would EVER have given Apocalypse the time of day, after EVERYTHING he holds that man PERSONALLY accountable. For Warren, for Ship, for Caliban, for baby Nathan. For being the one who set Stryfe on the path that eventually got Julio's father murdered in front of his own eyes.

Nah.

Pre-Excalibur, the only thing Julio EVER wanted for Apocalypse, was for him to catch these hands as Julio paid him back for all the lives he'd ruined, even just among Julio's personal circle of friends and loved ones.

The whole Rictor and Apocalypse thing is my least favorite aspect of Howard's work, because it just. Doesn't work, for anyone who has more than a passing familiarity with Julio's earliest stories. And not just a few of them. The way Apocalypse intersected with and impacted pretty much the entire first DECADE of Julio's existence as a character.

Like.

It just doesn't make sense. Julio would NEVER so much as agree to a sit-down with this guy, let alone trust him, for ANY reason. Even to save his own life. He hated this dude, WITH REASON.

For almost ten years, Julio had a front row seat to how much Apocalypse does not give a **** about anyone he uses to further his own plans. But Julio would just....sign up and volunteer to be the latest person Apocalypse uses for his own plans while claiming no I totally am in this to help you, Julio, to make you become better, just like I cared oh so much about enriching the lives of your mentors Caliban, Warren and Cable?

Sure, Jan.

[Habis]

*snip*

Yeah, I always find it troublesome when characters don't emotionally react to VERY important stuff that happened them in the past... like, everybody is happy rubbing shoulders with people who they should absolutely hate...

[Jackraow21]

Wow. Awesome recap, BobbysWorld.

Having said all that, in light of the recent revelations around Apocalypse and his motivation for his Darwinist “survival of the fittest” dogma (to prepare and strengthen mutants for the inevitable return of Annihilation and the hordes of Amenth; as shown in X of Swords), I believe I can defend what he did to Cable, Warren and Caliban.

In all cases he was making them stronger. In Cable’s case, he may’ve even saved/prolonged his life by infecting him with the techno-organic virus. Because recent revelations have shown that, without it keeping his power levels in check, eventually his cellular structure degrades along with his mind. Perhaps because he was genetically engineered by Sinister (being the son of a clone of Jean Grey) his physical form cannot fully control or contain his powers. So the virus keeps his powers in check just as his powers keep the virus in check (as per Al Ewing and Abigail Brand).

A new twist that I find fascinating honestly. Especially considering the above about Apocalypse and recent revelations around his motivations.

[BobbysWorld]

Wow. Awesome recap, BobbysWorld.

Having said all that, in light of the recent revelations around Apocalypse and his motivation for his Darwinist “survival of the fittest” dogma (to prepare and strengthen mutants for the inevitable return of Annihilation and the hordes of Amenth; as shown in X of Swords), I believe I can defend what he did to Cable, Warren and Caliban.

In all cases he was making them stronger. In Cable’s case, he may’ve even saved/prolonged his life by infecting him with the techno-organic virus. Because recent revelations have shown that, without it keeping his power levels in check, eventually his cellular structure degrades along with his mind. Perhaps because he was genetically engineered by Sinister (being the son of a clone of Jean Grey) his physical form cannot fully control or contain his powers. So the virus keeps his powers in check just as his powers keep the virus in check (as per Al Ewing and Abigail Brand).

A new twist that I find fascinating honestly. Especially considering the above about Apocalypse and recent revelations around his motivations.

Well, that's how the whole thing looks from Apocalypse's point of view, and his reasons for doing them, definitely. I just meant from Julio's POV, where he would I think realistically be more concerned with the emotional impact all this had on people he cared about, it would not look at all like Apocalypse was actually doing any of this for their benefit, no matter what he claimed. Peoples' well-being is a mix of their physical and their emotional needs being met. Apocalypse could be argued to have their longterm physical survival in mind when he did what he did, with his focus on that side of the spectrum dialed all the way up to eleven, but I don't think it can be argued that he cared at all how it affected their emotional survival on the other side of the spectrum. Julio's perspective, and how he viewed how all of that affected people that mattered to him, I think would be more likely to center 'what's good' for them as having BOTH their physical and emotional needs met and in balance, somewhere in the center of that spectrum, and not dialed all the way up to one extreme or the other.

So like, yeah you def can point out how Apocalypse's changes DID enhance those individuals' physical capabilities and personal survival odds, but I honestly just don't think that particular argument would impress Julio all that much, if the full context of his history and perspective on Apocalypse were factored into the story.

For me, I think that's the difference between justifying the idea that Julio would be willing to TOLERATE Apocalypse's presence, along with the whole amnesty thing meaning he would grudgingly accept that he's allowed to hate the dude for past deeds, but not actually do anything about it....versus Julio actually like, letting his guard down around Apocalypse and being even willing to entertain the IDEA of emotionally investing in any kind of dynamic with him.

[Jackraow21]

My point being maybe Apocalypse explained it to him (off panel), hence why he forgave him and understands him better now? Just throwing out a possible explanation.

[BobbysWorld]

My point being maybe Apocalypse explained it to him (off panel), hence why he forgave him and understands him better now? Just throwing out a possible explanation.

I think you might have replied before I edited this into my post, and its basically where I fall on that. I mean, YMMV, and all that, its just how I see it.

"For me, I think that's the difference between justifying the idea that Julio would be willing to TOLERATE Apocalypse's presence, along with the whole amnesty thing meaning he would grudgingly accept that he's allowed to hate the dude for past deeds, but not actually do anything about it....versus Julio actually like, letting his guard down around Apocalypse and being even willing to entertain the IDEA of emotionally investing in any kind of dynamic with him."

[Habis]

My point being maybe Apocalypse explained it to him (off panel), hence why he forgave him and understands him better now? Just throwing out a possible explanation.

I dunno... if somebody killed my dog, burned my house, tried to run over my mom with a truck, and afterwards said "but I only did it in order to make you stronger!", I would still feel pretty pissed...

[JB]

I feel like I'm sitting around a campfire and BobbysWorld is like Exodus reminding us of stories past.

It saddens me reading all of that history because it now fully dawns on me that pretty much NO ONE has displayed the relationship the O5 should have with Tabitha and Julio, who have been around the most consistently of their young wards. Like, you would never think Tabitha had any kind of relationship with Scott, Jean, and Bobby. They're rarely on panel together in any meaningful way! I'd at least love to see Tabby and Julio sitting down catching up with Scott and Jean. And yeah, the potential Julio/Bobby matchup seems much weirder after reading all this, although some dudes are really into daddies.

I can see where Jackraow21 is coming from too. Julio could have asked Apocalypse, "why are you helping me?" and A could have simply replied with, "I upgraded and tinkered with all mutants I deemed worthy." Julio: "Cool." But yes, it's a stretch for Julio to have such adoration and idolization for him. Perhaps Big A messed him with a little too much and it will result in something revealed in the future.

Very interesting stuff. *sips tea*

[Kingdom X]

So when is BobbysWorld applying to be an editor in the X-Office? In this one thread he just ate up every X-Men Monday they done ever had.

[Rift]

At this point I never even look anything up. I just assume Bobby's completely right about everything he says.

[Jackraow21]

I dunno... if somebody killed my dog, burned my house, tried to run over my mom with a truck, and afterwards said "but I only did it in order to make you stronger!", I would still feel pretty pissed...

Well, I didn’t say it was a great explanation… rather just a possible one. *shrugs*

I can see where Jackraow21 is coming from too. Julio could have asked Apocalypse, "why are you helping me?" and A could have simply replied with, "I upgraded and tinkered with all mutants I deemed worthy." Julio: "Cool." But yes, it's a stretch for Julio to have such adoration and idolization for him. Perhaps Big A messed him with a little too much and it will result in something revealed in the future.

This is where perhaps some of the trauma Julio has experienced in his life has messed him up emotionally, and maybe Apocalypse explaining that he did all this to temper mutants like steel and make them stronger somehow causes him in a way to feel adoration/appreciation for someone who by all objective accounts is a horrible monster and an abuser? Because Apocalypse taking him under his wing and making him stronger makes him feel special and important and part of something bigger than himself finally. In a way he’s never felt before.

It honestly doesn’t make much sense, but I’m trying to find a way that it does I suppose…

[JB]

Well, I didn’t say it was a great explanation… rather just a possible one. *shrugs*



This is where perhaps some of the trauma Julio has experienced in his life has messed him up emotionally, and maybe Apocalypse explaining that he did all this to temper mutants like steel and make them stronger somehow causes him in a way to feel adoration/appreciation for someone who by all objective accounts is a horrible monster and an abuser? Because Apocalypse taking him under his wing and making him stronger makes him feel special and important and part of something bigger than himself finally. In a way he’s never felt before.

It honestly doesn’t make much sense, but I’m trying to find a way that it does I suppose…

I think it makes sense especially in the way comic books often make sense. Plus he couldn't control his powers and couldn't get to Krakoa, and here comes along A to fix him and mentor him. With his father being a criminal and likely the cause of many deaths himself, his history consists of complicated relationships with father figures.