X-Men #12 Spoilers/Review Thread

[Grinning Soul]

I dislike the data pages immensely, but I still read them since I am afraid there is some info I need.
I am with you: don’t break my immersion. A data page in the wrong place just effs up my reading experience. Data pages at the beginning and/or end of a story would be fine (but maybe not after an emotional finale scene where I want to stay in that emotion for a while).

Yep. I always read the damn things too.

And you're absolutely right: even at the very end of the comic, it can still ruin the experience. Your example was perfect.

[Rev9]

By the way, the drawing of Sinister's son implies that he is Cordyceps Jones? His malformation looks like fungus.

To me he looks like Lobe..maybe Lobe and Sinister prime are related

[Rev9]

The X-Men going against the Councils interests for Krakoa is something I've been excited for since this team w as first created. Blind allegiance to a government over what they believe is right has been a weird thing in this era and I'm glad it's looking like it'll go away now

At least we may get a real schism not the trash we got with Scott and Logan.

[Lukmendes]

Please, don't make me talk about that data page. It didn't just kill characters off panel. It killed physics too [or, depending on how you see it, the intellect of characters who were supposed to be intelligent]. :P

I can't!!!

To be fair, their intellect has been killed off for a while now, which, yeah, don't make it better lol.

It started in HoX/PoX too, where Mystique, the shape shifter, was walking around in an enemy base on her default form, and that's what got her killed... Yep...

Became even dumber once X-Men#6 vol 5 showed what she was doing there, so Mystique, the shape shifter, used her powers to disguise as a mook in an enemy base, then, switched back to her default form for some reason, and got killed for it.

And then Xavier made this genius a member of the Quiet Council, it's no wonder they're only marginally better than Illuminati...

The more I think about it, the more I ask myself if data pages don't represent a certain... carelessness or lack of love (for lack of better term - I'm not a native speaker and I'm not a morning person) for the medium.

I know the analogy isn't a good one, but it's somewhat equivalent to stop a movie in the middle and introduce the footage of an academic lecture, with a power point presentation that explains something about the plot (and not as breaking the 4th wall joke, but as a serious thing). This would be unthinkable for a movie, right? Viewers would be angry, there would be never-ending mockery about it. You just don't do that. If you need that kind of exposition, you find a way to incorporate it in the story, using the actual characters and other elements within the narrative.

In Hickman's case, it's definitely not a lack of love, this is his way of telling us the weird ideas he comes up with in a pretty detailed manner so we can understand it, and he's always been like this.

The problem is that, data pages are generally only really interesting for people who already care about such details, people who don't may find them more annoying than anything.

Having the same details being told by other characters in an engaging way can make more people interested in details like this.

Yet... data pages are still a thing. And I'm not sure what it actually means, but it feels to me it's a mixture of laziness, lack of appreciation for the medium, lack of pride as a writer to try to make exposition - which is always tricky - somewhat work... I really don't know...

I think right now they're around because Hickman started this in the Krakoa era and everyone else are just copying him, which's why they may feel pointless, because at least Hickman generally has something to say when he drops the info dump pages, other writers may not.

EDITED: as for the recap pages, I think it's similar to "previously on" for series. It doesn't bother me much because its placement doesn't break the flow of the story and there is no new information being added there. You can skip them if you want. But some of those effing data pages actually have important or, at least, relevant info on them.

I guess, it's just that older comics had characters themselves doing recaps that for me that was a more interesting way to make readers who haven't been keeping up with comics to understand what's going on than recap pages, which may say the bare minimum.

At least we may get a real schism not the trash we got with Scott and Logan.

Don't tempt Marvel, they may do Schism II that may be even worse than the previous one .

[BroHomo]

I honestly Loooove the data pages.... I wish more pages were dedicated like this. Buuut Ive never really cared about artists/inkers/colorist (cept in eXtreme cases) Once I know what a character looks like....I'm good. Don't forget that the last word in 'comic book' is BOOK!

[Grinning Soul]

To be fair, their intellect has been killed off for a while now, which, yeah, don't make it better lol.

It started in HoX/PoX too, where Mystique, the shape shifter, was walking around in an enemy base on her default form, and that's what got her killed... Yep...

Became even dumber once X-Men#6 vol 5 showed what she was doing there, so Mystique, the shape shifter, used her powers to disguise as a mook in an enemy base, then, switched back to her default form for some reason, and got killed for it.

And then Xavier made this genius a member of the Quiet Council, it's no wonder they're only marginally better than Illuminati...

And here's where I shut up before any Hickman fan decides to jump on my throat… :P

In Hickman's case, it's definitely not a lack of love, this is his way of telling us the weird ideas he comes up with in a pretty detailed manner so we can understand it, and he's always been like this.

The problem is that, data pages are generally only really interesting for people who already care about such details, people who don't may find them more annoying than anything.

Having the same details being told by other characters in an engaging way can make more people interested in details like this.

Well, I'm interested in the details. I love world-building. But make it part of the narrative. Or write a book only about those details.

Like I said, if something like this would be considered unthinkable for movies, why are we willing to accept for comics? Do we think less of comics ourselves that we're more willing to accept these intrusions in the narrative?

I get that they can be useful. But being useful shouldn't be an excuse, should it? They're not fundamental to comics or they would have been used before. I guess that's why it feels lazy and careless. There are so many techniques available for a writer and some are even unique to the medium. But instead of using them, they resorted to data pages. It feels like they're just throwing the towel…

I don't know… I don't have a fully formed opinion about it. I was just considering those things.

I better quit talking about this too, though, before someone takes issue with that.

I think right now they're around because Hickman started this in the Krakoa era and everyone else are just copying him, which's why they may feel pointless, because at least Hickman generally has something to say when he drops the info dump pages, other writers may not.

Gillen was already using them before he joined the X-office. I think those will continue to be used until editorial makes a rule against them. They are easy, after all.

I guess, it's just that older comics had characters themselves doing recaps that for me that was a more interesting way to make readers who haven't been keeping up with comics to understand what's going on than recap pages, which may say the bare minimum.

Yeah. But nowadays some people take issue if they have to read too much. I guess they'd have a problem if they reverted back to that execution of recap. You can skip recap pages, after all, but it's harder to skip parts of a dialogue/monologue.

I'm fine with either option.

[InfamousBG]

Really liked this issue. A ton to talk about but I just wanted to keep it short. Interesting to see where this all goes with Sinister.