Which Marvel Heroes are consider A-Listers?

[Digifiend]

The Minnie, in this case, being Black Widow, of course.

[Force de Phenix]

The Minnie, in this case, being Black Widow, of course.

Exactly. They did parallels with DC.

[Reviresco]

I don't care if you're a misogynist, etc. Ugh. Anyway, A-lister doesn't mean popular characters in the comics. It's more of if the general non-comic reading public knows who a character is. I doubt most of the people who know who Superman is have ever read a single page of his comics, especially younger generations, and he's an A-lister.

Comic readers should know better than to put comic characters in a tier list because it's childish in the grand scheme of the universe where the stories take place. Being an A-lister is more of a capitalist way of ranking who was able to sell more sh*t and be known because they got enough marketing over the years and have been pushed. Comics are a part of that marketing, but they don't have the same power. The Avengers weren't A-list as a name until the Disney movies, but they were important in comics.

She's the Daisy because she's not the Minnie at the Disneyland meet and greet.

Obviously you DO care, since you insulted anyone who disagreed with you (i.e. myself) a misogynist.

Likewise, stop calling people childish, if they don't agree with you.

And thank you for sharing your personal and completely subjective definition of A-List, which of course, isn't universally accepted, especially by myself.

If were talking about comic book readers and people who watch every MCU movie, they ought to know everyone and they would use the A-lister title because they tie them with their comic book presence. Captain Marvel had key roles, but they misogynists hate the actress, so they'll say she's not an A-lister despite her being the Daisy Duck at amusement parks.

[DABellWrites]

If that's true, then why Fox's Fantastic Four movies have gained a low box-office performance. Despite being the same popular as Spider-man but yet unsuccessful to earn enough higher to match the projections.

The 2005 FF film did good at the box office, over $300 million. So yes, people knew who they were. Not to mention they've had several adaptation over the years.

[Force de Phenix]

Obviously you DO care, since you insulted anyone who disagreed with you (i.e. myself) a misogynist.

Likewise, stop calling people childish, if they don't agree with you.

And thank you for sharing your personal and completely subjective definition of A-List, which of course, isn't universally accepted, especially by myself.

The most important thing to take away from what I said is this:
Being an A-lister is more of a capitalist way of ranking who was able to sell more sh*t and be known because they got enough marketing over the years and have been pushed. Comics are a part of that marketing, but they don't have the same power. The Avengers weren't A-list as a name until the Disney movies, but they were important in comics.

I didn't insult you. I just think only children would put characters on a list of importance within the comics universe because they're all important to the universe Marvel built, and we should support all characters instead of belittle them. Outside of comics, it's easy to see that Batman and Spider-Man are known by more people than Molecule Man until he gets the Thanos treatment.

[Lukmendes]

and what exactly are you basing your information on? Just your opinion isn't good enough. Did you go out and survey people or do you have access to any empirical information to make your point? Otherwise you're just spitballing. So let's looks at some factual information....

Years of talking with people who aren't comic book fans and whether or not they know specific characters or even liked them is what shaped what I see as A-listers or not.

Obviously ain't a perfect system and has a lot of flaws, but it gave me a decent enough idea.

Getting back to the Fantastic Four, in the early days of the emergence of big budget superhero movies, the first Fantastic Four movie had a bigger opening weekend than Batman Begins for example. Using Box Office Mojo as the source, we get these figures

Batman Begins opening weekend 2005 $48,745,440 - (opened June 15, 2005 in the U.S.) source: Box Office Mojo Fantastic Four 2005 box office summary


Fantastic Four opening weekend 2005 $56,061,504 - (opened July 8 2005 in the U.S.) source: Box Office Mojo Batman Begins 2005 box office summary

Now let's look at the box office for the first X-Men film...

X-Men (2000) opening weekend $54,471,475 - (opened July 2000) source: Box Office Mojo X-Men box office summary



Batman did have an earlier version of course with the Michael Keaton films and then later you had George Clooney. Even with all this earlier exposure to movie goers who are not all necessarily comic book fans, the first Fantastic Four movie had a bigger opening than the new launch of Batman by Christopher Nolan, who is obviously a better director than Fantastic Four's Tim Story. In spite of a rumored budget of Fantastic Four approaching $100 million, Fox studios production values are inferior to those of Batman Begins. Yet the Fantastic Four movie outperformed it in the early weeks of it's release. Fantastic Four knocked off the previous #1 movie of that summer Steven Spielberg's War of the Worlds. Obviously there was an audience out there that had knowledge of the Fantastic Four and wanted to see them in a movie. It's too bad that at this time Fox owned the release rights and it would take Disney's muscle to get it away from them. Later Fox also came out with the even worse version of the Fantastic Four by novice director Josh Trank. This had very little ressemblance to the creation of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby.

But if anything even a flawed film of the Fantastic Four showed that there was film goer interest out there not just comic book fans.

Hm, wasn't aware they made that much money, but I still didn't get the impression people really cared about those movies that much, specially when compared with X-Men's and Batman's movies.

Then again, if that many people went to watch it, then it does mean F4 was a bigger name than I thought back in 2000's, and it shows a big flaw in the "system" I mentioned before lol.

Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness was a clever way to tease the debut of the Fantastic Four in the Disney/Marvel films and it's not hard to predict that it will be a success since they really been on a hot streak with their movies. There's an Easter Egg for Doctor Doom in the movie. Disney/Marvel has gotten very good at building the MCU and the Fantastic Four will soon be a part of it in their next phase.

Man, I thought the reference would be his mask showing up somewhere or somethin' like that, not just the teleportation working like his time platform... But I guess it's nice that got referenced anyways.

[Iron Maiden]

The most important thing to take away from what I said is this:
Being an A-lister is more of a capitalist way of ranking who was able to sell more sh*t and be known because they got enough marketing over the years and have been pushed. Comics are a part of that marketing, but they don't have the same power. The Avengers weren't A-list as a name until the Disney movies, but they were important in comics.

I didn't insult you. I just think only children would put characters on a list of importance within the comics universe because they're all important to the universe Marvel built, and we should support all characters instead of belittle them. Outside of comics, it's easy to see that Batman and Spider-Man are known by more people than Molecule Man until he gets the Thanos treatment.

Congratulations because in this reply you were once again insulting. Why don't you quit while you're NOT ahead sport!

[Force de Phenix]

Congratulations because in this reply you were once again insulting. Why don't you quit while you're NOT ahead sport!

I am not directing any comment to anyone here. I am not targeting anyone. It's an opinion. So I'm not insulting any commenters. If you're going to use that tone again, please don't reply.

I think it's counter productive to rate characters on how important they are in comics because it doesn't accomplish anything except belittling characters the writers have spent time on developing and writing for us for decades.

[Iron Maiden]

I am not directing any comment to anyone here. I am not targeting anyone. It's an opinion. So I'm not insulting any commenters. If you're going to use that tone again, please don't reply.

Then why are you once again calling people childish in your previous post? So come off your high horse by judging people who like to discuss the ranking of characters. Maybe you should stop posting in this thread if you don't like the nature of the discussion.

I didn't insult you. I just think only children would put characters on a list of importance within the comics universe because they're all important to the universe Marvel built, and we should support all characters instead of belittle them. Outside of comics, it's easy to see that Batman and Spider-Man are known by more people than Molecule Man until he gets the Thanos treatment.

[Force de Phenix]

Then why are you once again calling people childish in your previous post? So come off your high horse by judging people who like to discuss the ranking of characters. Maybe you should stop posting in this thread if you don't like the nature of the discussion.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. That was not my intention.

[skyvolt2000]

I think the point Force de Phenix is trying to make is trying to rank these characters does not work because various factors play into everything.


How can anything be ranked when the lines are not properly drawn for EVERYONE to get a fair shot?

It's not by accident Black Panther and Luke Cage are the only black characters at the big two with over 150 solos (soloish) issues.
Nor Steel and Catwoman were used to justify NOT doing Cap Marvel nor Black Panther while the pile of white male lead movies like John Carter bomb.
Static had a tv show that ranked higher than Pokemon and Power Rangers. Yet could NOT sniff merchandise.

We got folks that will BLOW OFF trade sales when it comes to Ms Marvel, Moon Girl and others of color.

Along with tv show and movie appearances (see John Stewart).
Yet when it's certain folks like a Cyclops-suddenly they matter.

A chimp could write Batman, Spider-Man and X-Men or the WORST writer you can think of can write those books-they will still sell.
Yet the greatest writer you can think of could write the best Static or Ms Marvel and folks will do gymnastics that would rival Simone Biles to not touch those books.

Or in Batman's case it took Duke Thomas doing one panel cameos to get long time Batman readers to boycott the book. Then we WONDER why Duke Thomas has so little.
We won't talk the venom Synch has gotten from a certain fandom.

Folks screaming Marvel or DC can only promote X and screw the rest. No matter what.

Folks scream nobody cares about Fantastic Four. I go to comic cons and I see KIDS looking for their books.
Nobody cares about Miles Morales. I went to a major comic con last weekend- only Spider-Man cosplay I saw was MILES MORALES.
Nobody cares about Static. Funny I sure do see a TON of custom made Static stuff than I do of any of the Young Avengers or Runaways or X-men NOT named Logan.
Nobody cares about Aquaman. Somehow he got a billion dollar movie.

But folks say ignore that because that doesn't matter.

A list is ONLY Spider-Man and yadda yadda. Because no one says NO to doing stuff with Peter Parker. What would happen if they did? Peter could actually have a WIFE?

[Cubbyboo]

Scarlet Witch definitely now - the Vision/Scarlet Witch ltd series are both selling high and the 12 issue full run selling for $60 -$100 plus ( my dad said they used to be .50-1.00) on eBay and in local shops. The 4 issue ltd is $40 nearby me. When her solo movie comes out it'll go even more and some of the variants from her 2015 solo sell upwards of $100 plus early issues demanding high prices. Her funkos sell out instantly as well as her figures and statues. Wanda has definitely arrived and with each appearance gets even more popular. Children's Crusade issues sell very high - esp variants and the Wanda / Doom cover. They have her currently as a ltd series special event character in comics but ToM reigned at#1 for several issues (Wanda series despite title) and Darkhold Alpha and Omega issues sold very well - the latter now commanding high resell. Issues of original 1963 run of Avengers with her as cover / main character issues demanding very high prices and the origin Wundagore Nights 185-187 selling at really high values esp post ToM where Wanda and Magneto established that they and Wanda and Lorna also still consider themselves family. Wanda only has upwards to scale in popularity. MoM - despite its misogynistic overtones- didn't diminish that even with her dark turn - if anything the value of her toys and comics have increased.

[Iron Maiden]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. That was not my intention.

Apology accepted but you have to be careful how you frame your posts. Comparing people to children didn't help.

[DABellWrites]

I think the point Force de Phenix is trying to make is trying to rank these characters does not work because various factors play into everything.


How can anything be ranked when the lines are not properly drawn for EVERYONE to get a fair shot?

It's not by accident Black Panther and Luke Cage are the only black characters at the big two with over 150 solos (soloish) issues.
Nor Steel and Catwoman were used to justify NOT doing Cap Marvel nor Black Panther while the pile of white male lead movies like John Carter bomb.
Static had a tv show that ranked higher than Pokemon and Power Rangers. Yet could NOT sniff merchandise.

We got folks that will BLOW OFF trade sales when it comes to Ms Marvel, Moon Girl and others of color.

Along with tv show and movie appearances (see John Stewart).
Yet when it's certain folks like a Cyclops-suddenly they matter.

A chimp could write Batman, Spider-Man and X-Men or the WORST writer you can think of can write those books-they will still sell.
Yet the greatest writer you can think of could write the best Static or Ms Marvel and folks will do gymnastics that would rival Simone Biles to not touch those books.

Or in Batman's case it took Duke Thomas doing one panel cameos to get long time Batman readers to boycott the book. Then we WONDER why Duke Thomas has so little.
We won't talk the venom Synch has gotten from a certain fandom.

Folks screaming Marvel or DC can only promote X and screw the rest. No matter what.

Folks scream nobody cares about Fantastic Four. I go to comic cons and I see KIDS looking for their books.
Nobody cares about Miles Morales. I went to a major comic con last weekend- only Spider-Man cosplay I saw was MILES MORALES.
Nobody cares about Static. Funny I sure do see a TON of custom made Static stuff than I do of any of the Young Avengers or Runaways or X-men NOT named Logan.
Nobody cares about Aquaman. Somehow he got a billion dollar movie.

But folks say ignore that because that doesn't matter.

A list is ONLY Spider-Man and yadda yadda. Because no one says NO to doing stuff with Peter Parker. What would happen if they did? Peter could actually have a WIFE?

So, you're trying to say it's racism and sexism? I think that's a simplistic look at things.

The success of comic book superhero movies has stopped translating to the comics. Aquaman was struggling back when the movie was doing a billion at the box office. Yeah, Into The Spider-verse film has done bonkers and made the character a household name, but Miles Morales still struggle to carry his own on-going series. Same for Harley Quinn, Suicide Squad, Iron-Man, Guardians of the Galaxy, and so many more who have mainstream success yet doesn't translate into comics. Sad? Yes, but that's how WD and Disney treat comics.
As for John Carter, I think that unfair. Aside from Tarzan, how many other Edgar Rice Burroughs characters are still popular? Not many and the man was prolific. Now that I think about it? What was my point? I'm just trying to state success outside of comics is very much different in comics. Which is why I listed popular characters who still struggle to carry their own title. I didn't even mention Cyborg.

You're correct, the playing field is uneven. It's been uneven for decades, that's just how these things work. The popular characters of Marvel and DC are white, they came from a different period. Now we have way more Black characters in comics, I don't mean Marvel/DC and the direct market. I'm talking graphic novels too. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/07/b...ic-novels.html

Things are more different now than in the 20th century.

[CJStriker]

Scarlet Witch definitely now - the Vision/Scarlet Witch ltd series are both selling high and the 12 issue full run selling for $60 -$100 plus ( my dad said they used to be .50-1.00) on eBay and in local shops. The 4 issue ltd is $40 nearby me. When her solo movie comes out it'll go even more and some of the variants from her 2015 solo sell upwards of $100 plus early issues demanding high prices. Her funkos sell out instantly as well as her figures and statues. Wanda has definitely arrived and with each appearance gets even more popular. Children's Crusade issues sell very high - esp variants and the Wanda / Doom cover. They have her currently as a ltd series special event character in comics but ToM reigned at#1 for several issues (Wanda series despite title) and Darkhold Alpha and Omega issues sold very well - the latter now commanding high resell. Issues of original 1963 run of Avengers with her as cover / main character issues demanding very high prices and the origin Wundagore Nights 185-187 selling at really high values esp post ToM where Wanda and Magneto established that they and Wanda and Lorna also still consider themselves family. Wanda only has upwards to scale in popularity. MoM - despite its misogynistic overtones- didn't diminish that even with her dark turn - if anything the value of her toys and comics have increased.

Yea Don't even Talk to me about trying to get some of Wanda's 1st Issues in the X-men especially #4 her Debut, the Least I have seen is now around $1,200.00 in decent condition, WOW! I can be wrong, but even if it lowers it is not what it used to be a few years ago.

But Honestly Yea Cubbyboo, If I have to say 1 miracle, I did not see coming even for Me being the Most Optimistic Scarlet Witch Fan only believed Wanda would gain moderate to at best over Moderate liking from the MCU. She was always Tier-B to C casted, but just having her in the movies was a miracle in and of itself. BUT after the Events of Endgame & Wanda’s Thanos fight Allot more fans noticed her. I think it was cause Thanos seemed untouchable in the movies even by groups of Heroes and that was without the stones. But what Wanda did on her own to him finally made fans not giving her a 2nd glance to give her a 2nd glance and Fans started piecing together Wanda’s MCU journey and many new fans started to like her.

Then Came WandaVision, a Show SO made for the time we needed it with what the world was going through, and the rest is History with just Emmy Nominated Levels that show was! Wanda’s Star just BLEW-UP like we could never image going from looking over C-Tier to A-Tier Overnight!

And I don’t say that lightly either, I would be the 1st not wanting to put Wanda in this tier unless it was really happening, but it has.

Even as you said the Controversial and not well liked by many Fans of Wanda in MoM, has not even seem to slow Wanda’s rise in popularity, in fact it only seems to have increase it to the point many called her the best thing out of the movie with the most iconic lines.

Those things ago will gain you heaps of support alone, but it shows Wanda has captured Lighting in a Bottle! Wanda has tapped into the culture in such a unique was and so impactful it has left the MCU world just wanting more and better for her, it truly, despite my misgivings of MoM, it truly is a Miracle for Any Long-Term Wanda Fan to be Witness too, This Love! ;_;