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  1. #16
    Niffleheim
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    Pre MCU: Spider-Man, X-Men, Wolverine, Fantastic Four, Captain America, Blade and Hulk

    Post MCU: Iron Man, Cap, Thor, GOTG, Black Panther, Black Widow, Doctor Strange, Ant-Man and every other character that were featured in the Infinity Saga.

    Phase 4 is creating a couple more heroes that have potential to go the distance.
    "Dedra Meero is not just a woman in a men’s world, but a fascist in a world of fascists.” - Denise Gough

  2. #17
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaastra View Post
    Miss america and spidey were big in japan in the 60s thanks to the tv shows and hulk got his own manga there as well in the 70s or 80s.
    70s, not 60s - 1979 and 1978 respectively. You're referring to the Spider-Man tokusatsu with the Leopardon robot, and the Miss America from Battle Fever J, right? Those two shows, of course, are the ancestors of the Power Rangers, BFJ being season 3 of the Super Sentai franchise it takes footage from, and the first with a robot after the concept proved popular in Spider-Man.

    As for the Hulk manga, if that was when you say, I bet it only happened because of the American TV show.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAWtoyoto 432 View Post
    If that's true, then why Fox's Fantastic Four movies have gained a low box-office performance. Despite being the same popular as Spider-man but yet unsuccessful to earn enough higher to match the projections.
    What does that have to do with anything???

    If you want to hold that against them make sure you do it to SUPERGIRL & GREEN LANTERN. Going by your logic-we should NEVER see a Justice League movie ever again.

    2 of the 3 films made a profit. The last one-every bigot on the planet was more concerned about ENDING Michael B Jordan's career than the actual film.

    Also not everyone wants to see a movie. Some are content with the books and tv shows. Some are not interested in the plot or who is casted.

    They still boast 3 (4) movies and 4 tv shows. Call me when a DC franchise not linked to the Bat or Superman can do that.

  4. #19
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAWtoyoto 432 View Post
    If that's true, then why Fox's Fantastic Four movies have gained a low box-office performance. Despite being the same popular as Spider-man but yet unsuccessful to earn enough higher to match the projections.
    Maybe you should change the title and OP of this thread to "Which Marvel Heroes Have the Biggest Box Office."

    Cause by your logic, Doctor Strange (who I love) and is more A-List than Batman, judging by this year's BO. And clearly, that simply is NOT so.



    Quote Originally Posted by Force de Phenix View Post
    Pre-MCU
    - Spider-Man
    - Wolverine
    - The Fantastic Four
    - Hulk
    - "the X-Men"

    Post-MCU
    - The Scarlet Witch
    - Thanos
    - Black Panther
    - Captain America
    - Thor
    - Groot
    - Rocket Racoon
    - Doctor Strange
    - Daredevil
    - Punisher
    - Deadpool
    - "The Avengers"

    I don't know how many people know the characters of the X-Men. I would say Storm, Professor X, and Magneto were well known if you actually watched the movies, if not, you wouldn't know their names, but some people might recognize them. Everyone else didn't leave an impression. The Guardians of the Galaxy have a lot of merchandise that are on par with a lot of other teams. The Netflix characters have become A-listers, but I wouldn't say all of them, and that's even a stretch. Everything else is noise for mainstream audiences.

    Thanos and Doctor Strange are referenced a lot in things because of their concept. The actors that are in other movies made the characters mainstream more than the movies themselves. People give the X-Men too much credit nowadays.

    If were talking about comic book readers and people who watch every MCU movie, they ought to know everyone and they would use the A-lister title because they tie them with their comic book presence. Captain Marvel had key roles, but they misogynists hate the actress, so they'll say she's not an A-lister despite her being the Daisy Duck at amusement parks.
    I am NOT a misogynist -- I'm female, and have probably been dealing with misogynists, creeps, and incels for longer than you've been alive. I have no opinion of Brie Larsen, either. I don't even know what being Daisy Duck means??? So, obviously that doesn't factor into my standards for being A-List, which for me, definitely involves sustainability over decades in the comics. I mean seriously. Groot, Rocket, Thanos, Scarlet Witch???




    Quote Originally Posted by Tofali View Post
    Pre MCU: Spider-Man, X-Men, Wolverine, Fantastic Four, Captain America, Blade and Hulk

    Post MCU: Iron Man, Cap, Thor, GOTG, Black Panther, Black Widow, Doctor Strange, Ant-Man and every other character that were featured in the Infinity Saga.

    Phase 4 is creating a couple more heroes that have potential to go the distance.


    You guys have an odd definition of what constitutes A-List, which by definition should be elite, and not _every_ character in a movie, so I'll leave you to talk about MCU characters.
    Namor the Sub-Mariner, Marvel's oldest character, will have been published for 85 years in 2024. So where's my GOOD Namor anniversary ongoing, Marvel?

  5. #20
    Chaos bringer GenericUsername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    No. Iron Man, Cap and Thor were NOT A-Listers before the MCU. Thor didn't even have a book for like three years, IIRC, before the MCU started. I don't think Captain Marvel is an A-Lister even now, even though Marvel keeps on pushing her, with repeated books.


    Marvel's A-Listers before the MCU were:

    Spider-Man, Wolverine, X-Men, and the Fantastic Four. Hulk also, but he probably owes some of that to the 70s TV series.
    Yeah, it was basically anyone they sold the rights off to other studios for money. Because they were the ones that would sell and they could try to avoid bankruptcy.

    But I think A-List evolves and changes over time. I think for this current generation that know the movies more, those characters will indeed be A-List to them. But then things will change as newer generations come up. Just like how the X-Men use to struggle pre-Claremont and 90s.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  6. #21

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    I dunno what A-list means, so I'm just listing who I think would still be popular without the MCU and who will still be popular after the MCU dies down/end...

    Spider-Man
    Wolverine
    X-Men(the brand, not necessarily all X-characters).
    Captain America(this country won't let a character named "Captain America" never be forgotten.
    Hulk
    Deadpool(was an internet meme before it became a thing).

  7. #22
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    Before MCU I would say Spider-Man, The Hulk, Fantastic Four, and the X-Men(or at least Wolverine).

    Now I would just consider Spider-Man an A-Lister and whoever they are currently making movies of at the moment. Most IP's get a massive push when they have a movie or TV show. Iron Man was once an A-Lister during his movie run but now he's retired he's more like a B-Lister. It's all subjective but Spider-Man still rules merch, the comics, and movies.

  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    As for the Hulk manga, if that was when you say, I bet it only happened because of the American TV show.

    Looks like 1970! So long before the live action show.

    Hulk: The Manga (Japanese: ハルク, Hepburn: Haruku) is an original Japanese manga story arc of The Incredible Hulk. It was originally published in Japan in 1970 and 1971. It was alternately authored by Yukio Togawa and Kazuo Koike, with art by Kosei Saigo and Yoshihiro Morito with ripped art from Herb Trimpe.[1]

    Spider-Man also got this treatment, with the Spider-Man stories (primarily by Ryoichi Ikegami) proving quite popular, leading to many reprints over the years. Other attempts were made at crossover properties in the 1990s with X-Men: The Manga being created to follow the storyline of the anime. The Hulk stories were less fortunate, and have never been reprinted or translated since their initial outings. Consequently, very little is known about the series.

    Distinctively, these stories were just referred to as Hulk, rather than The Incredible Hulk as with Japanese Language International Editions of Marvel U.S. stories.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulk:_The_Manga

  9. #24
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Lots of conflation here.

    Just to keep it simple, there are definitely characters that the company promoted as its "A-Listers" going back to the 1960s. But since the market matters more in the present era, that doesn't necessarily mean that consumers and the general public view those same individuals as A-List material now. The differing media platforms assures us that there will generally be some variance in perception.

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Maybe that means A-Lister to you but that doesn't go for everyone. There were a lot of people in the theater when I saw Doctor Strange and there sure was a buzz of recognition when Reed appeared on the screen. More so than with the others in that version of the Illuminati. You may not think so but a lot of "old timers" go to the movies too!
    The only one in that version of Illuminati who would be more recognizable than Reed is Xavier anyways lol.

    And honestly, A-lister is recognizable beyond just the usual fanbase, 'cause otherwise what's the point of calling it A-lister? Specially considering the number of characters who random people know of, but don't know jack **** of their comic stories, if they're even aware of comics still existing.

    And by your standard I don't think the Hulk would be an A-Lister these days. He had a some early success with the TV show with Bill Bixby and the films that came out before the Marvel/Fox deal but he's not had any solo movies since.
    I mean, I'm talking about how random people may know of the characters lol.

    Hulk is basically a nobody compared to how other MCU characters are used, but he still has plenty of people who know who he is, I have a 7 years old cousin who's a fan of him despite how little he gets used in MCU.

    Either way, I did consider to mention that Hulk felt less popular nowadays in the previous post, but decided against it, guess I should've included it after all lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Given that the OP said 'before the MCU' it clearly means popularity in the comics.
    I don't see how that "clearly" means popularity in the comics when MCU changed the greater audience's awareness of characters more so than it did with comics fans lol.

    Before MCU, the greater audience would be unlikely to know of the Avengers even though they had a cartoon or two, now who doesn't know about 'em?

    And yes, before the 2000s, I venture more people knew about the FF than Wolverine. They certainly have had more animated shows than Wolverine and as many movies, IIRC.
    X-Men had the super popular 90's cartoon which basically codified X-Men for a lot of people, I'd be hard pressed to say Wolverine was below F4 by then, specially considering how much 90's liked edgy ****, and angry guy with claws is pretty edgy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Don't forget Iron Man had that 90s cartoon. He wasn't completely unknown to non-comics fans before the 2008 movie came out. However, he definitely isn't on Spider-Man's level, so I'd say he was B-list. He's A-list now though.
    Being on Spidey's level is another level entirely, only Batman is this famous lol.

    As for FF and Wolverine, the FF had cartoons in 1967, 1978 (the infamous one with Herbie instead of Human Torch), 1994, and 2006. Wolverine's only solo cartoon is a short anime run, but there was also an X-Men anime and three Western cartoons, in 1992, 2000, and 2009, plus a pilot in 1989. In terms of movies, the FF have had four, though the first one was effectively an ashcan for rights retaining purposes. Wolverine has had three solo films (X-Men Origins, The Wolverine, and Logan), but if you take into account the team's films, he's been another SIX X-Men movies - even when he didn't have a main role, he still cameoed - Dark Phoenix is the only one he's not in at all. And of course all of Wolverine's appearances are the same actor, whereas the FF have each had three actors, and in Reed's case four due to his appearance in Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness. The FF were more successful early on but the X-Men and Wolverine definitely surpassed them in later decades.
    In comics themselves they advertised Spidey as "The non-mutant super-hero" at someone point in the 80's and 90's, that's how big X-Men were back then lol.

    Also even without counting Wolverine's solo movies, he was basically the protagonist of Fox-Men's earlier movies considering how much they were about his development.
    Last edited by Lukmendes; 06-25-2022 at 03:47 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
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    Spider-Man, Wolverine, Hulk, maybe Deadpool and Punisher

  12. #27
    Niffleheim
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAWtoyoto 432 View Post
    I am sure Iron Man, Captain America and Thor along with Spider-Man are considered as A-Listers even before MCU started.

    After the MCU's popularity grows, Black Panther and Captain Marvel have been promoted to the position.

    For X-Men, Wolverine and Storm are the most popular uses in any franchise.

    Anyone else has used to be A-listers?
    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post

    You guys have an odd definition of what constitutes A-List, which by definition should be elite, and not _every_ character in a movie, so I'll leave you to talk about MCU characters.
    If we aren't discussing the movies then I'm guessing we're talking about comicbooks? Then if that is the case I wouldn't consider Cap, Thor, Iron Man, BP and CM as A-Listers.

    A-Listers would be Spider-Man and X-Men
    B-Listers would be Fantastic Fours, Avengers, Wolverine
    C-Listers would be Iron Man, Cap, Thor, Hulk, Daredevil, Deadpool
    D-Listers would be the rest (bubbling under potential to hit it big in the mcu lol!)
    Last edited by Tofali; 06-25-2022 at 06:42 PM.
    "Dedra Meero is not just a woman in a men’s world, but a fascist in a world of fascists.” - Denise Gough

  13. #28
    Incredible Member ETMike1988's Avatar
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    Thor.... is not!

  14. #29
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    The only one in that version of Illuminati who would be more recognizable than Reed is Xavier anyways lol.

    And honestly, A-lister is recognizable beyond just the usual fanbase, 'cause otherwise what's the point of calling it A-lister? Specially considering the number of characters who random people know of, but don't know jack **** of their comic stories, if they're even aware of comics still existing.

    I mean, I'm talking about how random people may know of the characters lol.
    and what exactly are you basing your information on? Just your opinion isn't good enough. Did you go out and survey people or do you have access to any empirical information to make your point? Otherwise you're just spitballing. So let's looks at some factual information....


    Getting back to the Fantastic Four, in the early days of the emergence of big budget superhero movies, the first Fantastic Four movie had a bigger opening weekend than Batman Begins for example. Using Box Office Mojo as the source, we get these figures

    Batman Begins opening weekend 2005 $48,745,440 - (opened June 15, 2005 in the U.S.) source: Box Office Mojo Fantastic Four 2005 box office summary


    Fantastic Four opening weekend 2005 $56,061,504 - (opened July 8 2005 in the U.S.) source: Box Office Mojo Batman Begins 2005 box office summary

    Now let's look at the box office for the first X-Men film...

    X-Men (2000) opening weekend $54,471,475 - (opened July 2000) source: Box Office Mojo X-Men box office summary



    Batman did have an earlier version of course with the Michael Keaton films and then later you had George Clooney. Even with all this earlier exposure to movie goers who are not all necessarily comic book fans, the first Fantastic Four movie had a bigger opening than the new launch of Batman by Christopher Nolan, who is obviously a better director than Fantastic Four's Tim Story. In spite of a rumored budget of Fantastic Four approaching $100 million, Fox studios production values are inferior to those of Batman Begins. Yet the Fantastic Four movie outperformed it in the early weeks of it's release. Fantastic Four knocked off the previous #1 movie of that summer Steven Spielberg's War of the Worlds. Obviously there was an audience out there that had knowledge of the Fantastic Four and wanted to see them in a movie. It's too bad that at this time Fox owned the release rights and it would take Disney's muscle to get it away from them. Later Fox also came out with the even worse version of the Fantastic Four by novice director Josh Trank. This had very little ressemblance to the creation of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby.

    But if anything even a flawed film of the Fantastic Four showed that there was film goer interest out there not just comic book fans.

    Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness was a clever way to tease the debut of the Fantastic Four in the Disney/Marvel films and it's not hard to predict that it will be a success since they really been on a hot streak with their movies. There's an Easter Egg for Doctor Doom in the movie. Disney/Marvel has gotten very good at building the MCU and the Fantastic Four will soon be a part of it in their next phase.
    Last edited by Iron Maiden; 06-25-2022 at 10:27 PM.

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member Force de Phenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    I am NOT a misogynist -- I'm female, and have probably been dealing with misogynists, creeps, and incels for longer than you've been alive. I have no opinion of Brie Larsen, either. I don't even know what being Daisy Duck means??? So, obviously that doesn't factor into my standards for being A-List, which for me, definitely involves sustainability over decades in the comics. I mean seriously. Groot, Rocket, Thanos, Scarlet Witch???

    You guys have an odd definition of what constitutes A-List, which by definition should be elite, and not _every_ character in a movie, so I'll leave you to talk about MCU characters.
    I don't care if you're a misogynist, etc. Ugh. Anyway, A-lister doesn't mean popular characters in the comics. It's more of if the general non-comic reading public knows who a character is. I doubt most of the people who know who Superman is have ever read a single page of his comics, especially younger generations, and he's an A-lister.

    Comic readers should know better than to put comic characters in a tier list because it's childish in the grand scheme of the universe where the stories take place. Being an A-lister is more of a capitalist way of ranking who was able to sell more sh*t and be known because they got enough marketing over the years and have been pushed. Comics are a part of that marketing, but they don't have the same power. The Avengers weren't A-list as a name until the Disney movies, but they were important in comics.

    She's the Daisy because she's not the Minnie at the Disneyland meet and greet.

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