Superman vs Goku: In Strength Challenge

[Cody]

In fact, I don't think anyone has ever realistically portrayed this one right.

Actually Batman has, or very close to it. Which is the most ironic thing ever I know.

[Hazard]

But Batman can breathe in space!

[Cody]

But Batman can breathe in space!

Sounds like something a Human can do.

[Dalak]

If it's so useless trying to apply any science to fiction, then what's the point of trying to guess the weights/densities/forces/speeds of anything we do on this board? I'm really confused by this. We try and reason out the effects upon folks talking in the center of stars, defy narration if folks like Wally West are said to go half-lightspeed when it's clearly too slow and do some basic math to get a more accurate idea (Nothing exact), compare the energy it takes to bust planetary bodies to fictional attacks, and many other possible examples.

By all means, there is a line where science doesn't apply, but why does saying that Vacuum making the blood already leaving the body move quicker go over that line? The blood is pushing itself out into space already and the vacuum's pull will increase the speed of that. Just because no one has brought it up before doesn't mean it's an invalid argument simply because of that.

When you see someone in fiction go bare-skinned into space they have almost always shown the durability to attacks and temperature not to be affected by the rigors of space, and the strength to at least hold their own against vacuum if given a breathing device when needed. Thing, Superman, Hulk, Frieza and far more have shown this and it's why there is no objection to them simply existing in space, but that's not the same as saying their blood can't be acted upon by outside forces like vacuum with no reason other than 'Science doesn't work in Fiction well'.

As for why I object to this and not other things, it's quite simple: Many folks in many fictions can breathe in space for various reasons (Hulk has an Oxygen Organ) and are shown to do various high-end feats (Many with actual explanations), only 2 fictions I know of off the top of my head have had someone with enormous gaping holes in them bleeding into space and not had any outside force work on them without a reason, and one of them is Invincible which could conceivably have one I haven't discovered yet.

And asking anyone why they accept PC Superman pulling a random superpower out of his super-colon is meaningless because 'he does it all the time'. When someone is shown to do something all the time regardless of rationality it has to be accepted aka all DC versions of Karate Kid. How often does anyone in DBZ hang out in space while cut in half?

[Hazard]

We selectively apply science.

Key word, selectively.

People can talk in space. Breathe in space. Get enough energy from simple sun exposure to move planets. People can move faster than light and still have functioning sight. People can turn into giant monkeys completely violating conservation of mass.

And so on.

Singling out this specific instance as a time to finally apply the full scope of science on a guy in space is more than a little suspect.

Furthermore, it's erroneous, because it wouldn't work that way.

As an aside, it's not like durability has crap to do with surviving in space.

Edit:

Also, sea pressure is another thing that has nothing to do with durability.

[Dalak]

Singling out this specific instance as a time to finally apply the full scope of science on a guy in space is more than a little suspect.

Furthermore, it's erroneous, because it wouldn't work that way.

Acting like asking why his various damaged internals are as durable to a planetary explosion as his proven-durable skin/muscles and asking why the blood already spraying out of his body isn't made faster by Vacuum isn't 'applying the full scope' of science at all and you know it. All I'm doing here is applying basic fluid dynamics used from anything from a windmill to a space shuttle toilet, just like CBR applies basic things like the gravity of a black hole pulling at someone trying to escape and the density of a tiny super-heavy object being greater than steel/whatever.

As an aside, it's not like durability has crap to do with surviving in space.

Edit:

Also, sea pressure is another thing that has nothing to do with durability.

Are you saying the outside of whatever craft/being exposed to either doesn't have to be durable enough to withstand the pressure of either the outside wanting in, or the inside wanting out aka 'has crap to do with it'?




. . . Y'know what, nevermind.

At this point I don't think there's any reasonable hope that either side of this argument is going to sway the other a whit, so we should probably have a Mod Ruling on whether the 'unconscious, gravely wounded, and powerless Frieza survives Namek's explosion unscathed' feat is a clean feat or not. Can we at least agree on that?

[Hazard]

Moving on to the true purpose of the thread.

By the time Battle of Gods arrives Goku is on the level where his punches are hurting a 70% Bills.

So yeah, by that point I don't think any of us are going to have a tough time saying he is stronger than Post Crisis Superman.

Now Post Crisis Superman can still lift more. DB strength is focused on striking.

Of course, I'm pretty sure this question was answered early on but whatever.

[Cody]

Moving on to the true purpose of the thread.

By the time Battle of Gods arrives Goku is on the level where his punches are hurting a 70% Bills.

Bills was using 70% of his full power at the same time Goku was using 80% of his full power. They went all out right when Goku admitted this. I'd even go as far as to say SSG Goku can hit harder than NU Superman tbh. Not by a large gap though.

[Hazard]

Bills was using 70% of his full power at the same time Goku was using 80% of his full power. They went all out right when Goku admitted this. I'd even go as far as to say SSG Goku can hit harder than NU Superman tbh. Not by a large gap though.

Goku was going at 80% in SSJG form. However by the end he was going all out as a SSJ (with God power absorbed) while Bills never used more than 70%.

Remember that according to Toriyama if Bills is a 10 then SSJG Goku is about a 6.