X-Men Red #4 Review *spoilers*

[Habis]

I would think both.

He most certainly has a data bank of genetic material for the existing mutants but, given he's the forefather of Chimaera he also creates his own genetic material as needed. It's how Maddie was created.

Giving Sinister that much leeway and power over mutants has been an underlying issue since HoX/Pox. Nobody really trusts him but they do recognise his value and expertise and are willing to put up with just so much for the greater good, despite the risks.

Gillen might be bringing that not-do-blind trust to a head in his IXM.

The weird thing is, they already know he betrayed Krakoa in at least one of Moira's lives, he created the Chimeras, who destroyed Krakoa, he even joined Orchis (which he has already done, in a way...)... and they are allowing him to retrace every one of these steps...

If Xavier and Magneto have been preparing for Krakoa for so long... couldn't they create a way to replace Mr. Sinister for a more amenable agent? Couldn't they create a team dedicated to gathering DNA from every mutant? Even if they couldn't gather as much DNA as Mr. Sinister, Xavier and Magneto could gather a massive amount: All the mutants from Genosha, from the X-Men, from Mutants Sans Frontiers... Krakoa would be a little less perfect, but safer...

[jwatson]

Per usual, my favorite scenes on second read.

xmenred400.jpg

xmenred401.jpg


xmenred402.jpg

If i were to add one more it would be isca laugh in the panel on the page before the magneto one. It was so nice to see a black woman just laughing so unabashedly and full of confidence. It is a rarity in many medium. And it made me smile on second read.

[Devaishwarya]

The weird thing is, they already know he betrayed Krakoa in at least one of Moira's lives, he created the Chimeras, who destroyed Krakoa, he even joined Orchis (which he has already done, in a way...)... and they are allowing him to retrace every one of these steps...

If Xavier and Magneto have been preparing for Krakoa for so long... couldn't they create a way to replace Mr. Sinister for a more amenable agent? Couldn't they create a team dedicated to gathering DNA from every mutant? Even if they couldn't gather as much DNA as Mr. Sinister, Xavier and Magneto could gather a massive amount: All the mutants from Genosha, from the X-Men, from Mutants Sans Frontiers... Krakoa would be a little less perfect, but safer...

It's not as though Xavier and Co. Have been preparing for Krakoa all their lives in the 616. Roughly speaking Moira revealed her secrets to Xavier on the park bench just about two years ago.

[Habis]

It's not as though Xavier and Co. Have been preparing for Krakoa all their lives in the 616. Roughly speaking Moira revealed her secrets to Xavier on the park bench just about two years ago.

The park bench scene happened when Xavier was in college.

[The Regent]

Per usual, my favorite scenes on second read.

xmenred400.jpg

xmenred401.jpg


xmenred402.jpg

If i were to add one more it would be isca laugh in the panel on the page before the magneto one. It was so nice to see a black woman just laughing so unabashedly and full of confidence. It is a rarity in many medium. And it made me smile on second read.

Those were my favorites as well, I think Charles catching Xandra's scream from stars away took the cake for me.

[BobbysWorld]

I'm honestly not sure what to expect from Judgment Day or the conversations about mortality/the resurrection protocols at this point. I think people have valid reason to think the res protocols will be scaled back or even done away with after Judgment Day, but tbh I also think there's an equal possibility they're just getting started with them, considering its only in this past month that they've really started exploring some of the bigger questions of mortality and ethics re: the protocols, whereas up until this point they've just been used as a fix for mutants dying in superhero fights. The cover and solicits for XMR #6 feature Magneto's broken helmet and talking about something that might change Arakkii culture or the shape of its future forever, I forget the exact wording....but honestly, I do wonder if the obvious cover implication that Magneto will die is a red herring, and if the big change might be that the death toll on Mars is high enough it gets some Arakkii to reconsider using the protocols or Waiting Room, or one of the Great Ring dies and decides to come back, even if just to continue the fight against Uranos.

Like, the Arakkii might not fear a life that ends, granted. But if there's anything that might get one to reconsider using the protocols, it might be a desire to continue the fight against a worthy foe, or in defense of their people. Not "I'm afraid to be done" but "I'm not done yet, I still have more fight in me."

*Shrugs* But we'll see.

Either way, I think this conversation about not getting your seat on the Great Ring back once you lose it might be about more than just the consequences of dying and returning. There's a very clear carry-over between X-Men Red and Legion of X. Ewing dragged out showing Ora Serrata and making sure not to use her or let anything slip about her character or powers or appearance before her creator, Spurrier, got to unveil her and her personality and powers in Legion of X #1. Like, there's definitely a high degree of coordination between Ewing and Spurrier about the overall Arakkii culture and the Great Ring members and their history.....with Ewing already picking up a lot of what Spurrier laid down in just the first two issues of LoX.

And I'm wondering if the same holds true for another plot thread from Legion of X....Uqesh the Bridge.

There's going to be at least some turn over in the Great Ring's future. Whether Magneto dies and loses his seat regardless of whether he returns or not, the same with Lodus Logos, and potentially Idyll (since her death has been teased as well).....we're likely to get at least a couple new GR members within the next year. And I wonder if part of the aim of this issue's discussion about who holds the seats, like, might be paving the way for Uqesh's return.

The solicits for LoX #5 mentioned 'a conspiracy on Mars' and frankly, there's not a whole lot of likely conspirators FOR that book. For a conspiracy to have weight, and for it to relate to Weaponless Zsen, as the solicits also talk about her getting to the heart of the conspiracy....it likely has to involve Arakkii characters, because there'd be no weight to it for her, if it was something Krakoans were doing. And the conspiracy also doesn't seem to be about Ora herself, judging by the way the solicit is worded....so tbh, ever since I read that solicit, I've been assuming there's a high chance the conspiracy involves Uqesh himself, who has a HELL of a lot of reason to be conspiring against someone, whether that's just Ora and the Inward Watch, Arakko as a whole, etc. Obviously he doesn't have a hell of a lot of mobility in his current state, but with Mother Righteous running around, and a fugitive god who may or may not be Loki....that's two figures who could reach out to him to form some kind of conspiracy, offering him a regained body and the chance for revenge against Ora, in return for access to his powers or something else.

Basically...I think the conspiracy alluded to in Legion of X solicits is between Uqesh and Mother Righteous, and she's found a way to meet with him (well, his head) in secret and use his powers to make the various bargains for gods and spirits that she's been offering around....with the eventual expectation that she will arrange for him to get back his body somehow. I think a renewed Uqesh - who by the Arakkii's own logic never actually died, so can't be discounted as a future challenger for Great Ring seats on that basis - I think he's going to challenge to take up one of the empty seats in the near future, whether its Lodus Logos' Seat of Dreams, Magneto's Seat of Loss, or something else. After all, he might not be able to get his OWN seat back due to having lost it, but that just rules out him taking back the Seat of Law. Doesn't necessarily mean a restored Uqesh couldn't challenge or hold the Seat of Dreams or the Seat of Loss.

And there's a lot of drama, tension, and animosity that could be milked out of having Uqesh and Ora on the same council.

[Devaishwarya]

The park bench scene happened when Xavier was in college.

Okies. That clarifies a lot. I always interpreted that scene as figurative rather than literally occurring back in the day. Hmmm.

[Rev9]

The weird thing is, they already know he betrayed Krakoa in at least one of Moira's lives, he created the Chimeras, who destroyed Krakoa, he even joined Orchis (which he has already done, in a way...)... and they are allowing him to retrace every one of these steps...

If Xavier and Magneto have been preparing for Krakoa for so long... couldn't they create a way to replace Mr. Sinister for a more amenable agent? Couldn't they create a team dedicated to gathering DNA from every mutant? Even if they couldn't gather as much DNA as Mr. Sinister, Xavier and Magneto could gather a massive amount: All the mutants from Genosha, from the X-Men, from Mutants Sans Frontiers... Krakoa would be a little less perfect, but safer...

I thought of that, with Dr.Nemesis around who really needs Sinister? For more drama down the line ,you could even have Kavita Rao work in the world but have a stash of mutant samples for Krakoa creating a sort of liaison for future stories.Alas mutants tied their hands with a scumbag like Essex. Then again ever since IXM who is to say Sinister has not been using his 'reboot' cheat code to always stay ahead of the council and staying in the clear of all perceived impropriety .Like he knows they don't trust him,but he has probably averted scenarios of being kicked off countless times at this point.That is the only thing that gives a modicum of plausibility.

[jwatson]

I'm honestly not sure what to expect from Judgment Day or the conversations about mortality/the resurrection protocols at this point. I think people have valid reason to think the res protocols will be scaled back or even done away with after Judgment Day, but tbh I also think there's an equal possibility they're just getting started with them, considering its only in this past month that they've really started exploring some of the bigger questions of mortality and ethics re: the protocols, whereas up until this point they've just been used as a fix for mutants dying in superhero fights. The cover and solicits for XMR #6 feature Magneto's broken helmet and talking about something that might change Arakkii culture or the shape of its future forever, I forget the exact wording....but honestly, I do wonder if the obvious cover implication that Magneto will die is a red herring, and if the big change might be that the death toll on Mars is high enough it gets some Arakkii to reconsider using the protocols or Waiting Room, or one of the Great Ring dies and decides to come back, even if just to continue the fight against Uranos.

Like, the Arakkii might not fear a life that ends, granted. But if there's anything that might get one to reconsider using the protocols, it might be a desire to continue the fight against a worthy foe, or in defense of their people. Not "I'm afraid to be done" but "I'm not done yet, I still have more fight in me."

*Shrugs* But we'll see.

Either way, I think this conversation about not getting your seat on the Great Ring back once you lose it might be about more than just the consequences of dying and returning. There's a very clear carry-over between X-Men Red and Legion of X. Ewing dragged out showing Ora Serrata and making sure not to use her or let anything slip about her character or powers or appearance before her creator, Spurrier, got to unveil her and her personality and powers in Legion of X #1. Like, there's definitely a high degree of coordination between Ewing and Spurrier about the overall Arakkii culture and the Great Ring members and their history.....with Ewing already picking up a lot of what Spurrier laid down in just the first two issues of LoX.

And I'm wondering if the same holds true for another plot thread from Legion of X....Uqesh the Bridge.

There's going to be at least some turn over in the Great Ring's future. Whether Magneto dies and loses his seat regardless of whether he returns or not, the same with Lodus Logos, and potentially Idyll (since her death has been teased as well).....we're likely to get at least a couple new GR members within the next year. And I wonder if part of the aim of this issue's discussion about who holds the seats, like, might be paving the way for Uqesh's return.

The solicits for LoX #5 mentioned 'a conspiracy on Mars' and frankly, there's not a whole lot of likely conspirators FOR that book. For a conspiracy to have weight, and for it to relate to Weaponless Zsen, as the solicits also talk about her getting to the heart of the conspiracy....it likely has to involve Arakkii characters, because there'd be no weight to it for her, if it was something Krakoans were doing. And the conspiracy also doesn't seem to be about Ora herself, judging by the way the solicit is worded....so tbh, ever since I read that solicit, I've been assuming there's a high chance the conspiracy involves Uqesh himself, who has a HELL of a lot of reason to be conspiring against someone, whether that's just Ora and the Inward Watch, Arakko as a whole, etc. Obviously he doesn't have a hell of a lot of mobility in his current state, but with Mother Righteous running around, and a fugitive god who may or may not be Loki....that's two figures who could reach out to him to form some kind of conspiracy, offering him a regained body and the chance for revenge against Ora, in return for access to his powers or something else.

Basically...I think the conspiracy alluded to in Legion of X solicits is between Uqesh and Mother Righteous, and she's found a way to meet with him (well, his head) in secret and use his powers to make the various bargains for gods and spirits that she's been offering around....with the eventual expectation that she will arrange for him to get back his body somehow. I think a renewed Uqesh - who by the Arakkii's own logic never actually died, so can't be discounted as a future challenger for Great Ring seats on that basis - I think he's going to challenge to take up one of the empty seats in the near future, whether its Lodus Logos' Seat of Dreams, Magneto's Seat of Loss, or something else. After all, he might not be able to get his OWN seat back due to having lost it, but that just rules out him taking back the Seat of Law. Doesn't necessarily mean a restored Uqesh couldn't challenge or hold the Seat of Dreams or the Seat of Loss.

And there's a lot of drama, tension, and animosity that could be milked out of having Uqesh and Ora on the same council.

You may be on to something with this. This makes me think given what magneto said about having to want it, what happens if at the moment an arraki dies they end up there in the waiting room. I mean we know for a fact tarn had no intention of dying, and before magneto killed him he goes "no stop, i yie...." so the fact he was ready to yield i feel like he may be in the waiting room right now and what was spelled out this issue is why he can never fight to reclaim his seat.

[JB]

I'm honestly not sure what to expect from Judgment Day or the conversations about mortality/the resurrection protocols at this point. I think people have valid reason to think the res protocols will be scaled back or even done away with after Judgment Day, but tbh I also think there's an equal possibility they're just getting started with them, considering its only in this past month that they've really started exploring some of the bigger questions of mortality and ethics re: the protocols, whereas up until this point they've just been used as a fix for mutants dying in superhero fights. The cover and solicits for XMR #6 feature Magneto's broken helmet and talking about something that might change Arakkii culture or the shape of its future forever, I forget the exact wording....but honestly, I do wonder if the obvious cover implication that Magneto will die is a red herring, and if the big change might be that the death toll on Mars is high enough it gets some Arakkii to reconsider using the protocols or Waiting Room, or one of the Great Ring dies and decides to come back, even if just to continue the fight against Uranos.

Like, the Arakkii might not fear a life that ends, granted. But if there's anything that might get one to reconsider using the protocols, it might be a desire to continue the fight against a worthy foe, or in defense of their people. Not "I'm afraid to be done" but "I'm not done yet, I still have more fight in me."

*Shrugs* But we'll see.

Either way, I think this conversation about not getting your seat on the Great Ring back once you lose it might be about more than just the consequences of dying and returning. There's a very clear carry-over between X-Men Red and Legion of X. Ewing dragged out showing Ora Serrata and making sure not to use her or let anything slip about her character or powers or appearance before her creator, Spurrier, got to unveil her and her personality and powers in Legion of X #1. Like, there's definitely a high degree of coordination between Ewing and Spurrier about the overall Arakkii culture and the Great Ring members and their history.....with Ewing already picking up a lot of what Spurrier laid down in just the first two issues of LoX.

And I'm wondering if the same holds true for another plot thread from Legion of X....Uqesh the Bridge.

There's going to be at least some turn over in the Great Ring's future. Whether Magneto dies and loses his seat regardless of whether he returns or not, the same with Lodus Logos, and potentially Idyll (since her death has been teased as well).....we're likely to get at least a couple new GR members within the next year. And I wonder if part of the aim of this issue's discussion about who holds the seats, like, might be paving the way for Uqesh's return.

The solicits for LoX #5 mentioned 'a conspiracy on Mars' and frankly, there's not a whole lot of likely conspirators FOR that book. For a conspiracy to have weight, and for it to relate to Weaponless Zsen, as the solicits also talk about her getting to the heart of the conspiracy....it likely has to involve Arakkii characters, because there'd be no weight to it for her, if it was something Krakoans were doing. And the conspiracy also doesn't seem to be about Ora herself, judging by the way the solicit is worded....so tbh, ever since I read that solicit, I've been assuming there's a high chance the conspiracy involves Uqesh himself, who has a HELL of a lot of reason to be conspiring against someone, whether that's just Ora and the Inward Watch, Arakko as a whole, etc. Obviously he doesn't have a hell of a lot of mobility in his current state, but with Mother Righteous running around, and a fugitive god who may or may not be Loki....that's two figures who could reach out to him to form some kind of conspiracy, offering him a regained body and the chance for revenge against Ora, in return for access to his powers or something else.

Basically...I think the conspiracy alluded to in Legion of X solicits is between Uqesh and Mother Righteous, and she's found a way to meet with him (well, his head) in secret and use his powers to make the various bargains for gods and spirits that she's been offering around....with the eventual expectation that she will arrange for him to get back his body somehow. I think a renewed Uqesh - who by the Arakkii's own logic never actually died, so can't be discounted as a future challenger for Great Ring seats on that basis - I think he's going to challenge to take up one of the empty seats in the near future, whether its Lodus Logos' Seat of Dreams, Magneto's Seat of Loss, or something else. After all, he might not be able to get his OWN seat back due to having lost it, but that just rules out him taking back the Seat of Law. Doesn't necessarily mean a restored Uqesh couldn't challenge or hold the Seat of Dreams or the Seat of Loss.

And there's a lot of drama, tension, and animosity that could be milked out of having Uqesh and Ora on the same council.

Makes sense. Where normally they would accept death as an honor from a formidable foe, they may view coming back as evening the odds against opponents that are immortal.

[ETMike1988]

Maybe we should send Jacob Seed from Far Cry 5 to Planet Arakko!

[Grunty]

Okies. That clarifies a lot. I always interpreted that scene as figurative rather than literally occurring back in the day. Hmmm.

I feel that's an easy mistake to make given just how deep that Moira retcon cut in terms of continuity.
Also if i recall right it was still part of the time labeled X-0, which given the x10 multiplicator (X1 = 10 years later, X2 = 100 years later, X3 = 1000 years later) involved in those labels would suggest that it merely happend 10 years before the events of HOX/POX which would be far too early for Xavier's college days.

However for the same reason i still wouldn't rule out the possibility that it might eventualy be revealed to have been fake though, especialy given the now even more dubious nature of Moira X. Implanted into Xavier and Magneto's minds by some yet unseen force, some time after (or shortly before) the events of Rosenbergs run to convince both that everything was their ideas for years and not a recent brainwash.

But yeah until it's revealed otherwise Moira MacTaggert was always like that and she had manipulated Xavier since their early adulthood via that meeting.

[Devaishwarya]

I feel that's an easy mistake to make given just how deep that Moira retcon cut in terms of continuity.
Also if i recall right it was still part of the time labeled X-0, which given the x10 multiplicator (X1 = 10 years later, X2 = 100 years later, X3 = 1000 years later) involved in those labels would suggest that it merely happend 10 years before the events of HOX/POX which would be far too early for Xavier's college days.

However for the same reason i still wouldn't rule out the possibility that it might eventualy be revealed to have been fake though, especialy given the now even more dubious nature of Moira X. Implanted into Xavier and Magneto's minds by some yet unseen force, some time after (or shortly before) the events of Rosenbergs run to convince both that everything was their ideas for years and not a recent brainwash.

But yeah until it's revealed otherwise Moira MacTaggert was always like that and she had manipulated Xavier since their early adulthood via that meeting.

That's what I was initially thinking. (The timeframe just doesn't add up...even with the STS factored in). And that Park Bench scene was just a fanciful tableau Moira set up specifically for Charles for "drama".

It doesn't really make a difference now...either way. So...Enh!

[strathcona]

Were they good arguments? Pretty much everyone else in the room was like, "Oh no, a massive intergalactic war is going to break out that will probably lead to a bunch of death and suffering," and then one person was like, "That's the bed you made, guess we all going to war."



Ewing making Marauders less and less relevant by the minute. I will say Ewing did a fantastic job of tying recent events from Marauders, X-Men, Black Panther into his ongoing story. Add to that the fact that he brought back his own GotG threads along with the LONG OVERDUE return to Rockslide. All while continuing to develop the Arrakki.

That is why Ewing is the best writer at Marvel. He is able to work these grand ideas into a coherent and supremely enjoyable story all while acknowledging the other current books and Marvel's vast history. He is what Hickman is touted as being, but Ewing is the real deal.