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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member Habis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micabe View Post
    Ah, yes... Thanks for reminding me that anyone can just fly in by plane or self-propulsion -- I wonder if the Quite Counsel would shoot down any vehicle or person flying in their airspace or tricks the gates.
    But if you aren't a member of X-Force or of the Quiet Council and you dare shoot down a plane attacking Krakoa... Beware! Down to the Pit with you!.

  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Micabe View Post
    Ah, yes... Thanks for reminding me that anyone can just fly in by plane or self-propulsion -- I wonder if the Quite Counsel would shoot down any vehicle or person flying in their airspace or tricks the gates.
    They shot down Deadpool.
    “There is no defense against the Scarlet Witch's HEX!

  3. #78
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habis View Post
    Dr. Doom knew about the WHR too... I wonder if all high ranking mystics can access the WHR... it could be that many ancient magic artefifacts in the MU are made of Mysterium...
    This made me chuckle a bit. I imagined all these supremely powerful mystics that spent years honing their craft to be able to obtain mysterium for their ancient artifacts, and I then I pictured Manifold just popping over for a quick visit whenever he feels like it lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micabe View Post
    Ah, yes... Thanks for reminding me that anyone can just fly in by plane or self-propulsion -- I wonder if the Quite Counsel would shoot down any vehicle or person flying in their airspace or tricks the gates.
    I would imagine they would treat it like every other country does. If an unknown aircraft is approaching you try to make contact and go from there.
    You brought back Wolverine

    The CBR Community Standards a.k.a how to get along.

  4. #79
    Incredible Member PyroFN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reigna View Post
    That's the thing, the white hot room is a very strange place now its known as the pheonix's crib but when Claremont wrote it in the past it was this transcendental dimension existing outside time and space and had multiple indigenous residents one being death and its tower. Death described the role of the pheonix and described it as a being of chaos and passion whilst death was a being of order and entropy.
    This isn’t a disagreement to your post, but more of a personal thing of mine. I personally don’t count the White Hot Room as being created until Morrison, due to the fact that he coined the term first. However, I will say Claremont did expand on the lore of the Room moreso than Morrison and it was this lore that future writers followed suit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reigna View Post
    But the white hot room is likely not the above place or even the core of creation as that seems to be the house of ideas itself, the very birthplace of marvel and where the fulcrum lives.
    *buzzer sound

    I don’t know about the “above place”, per se, but Rachel Summers, written under Claremont, confirmed the White Hot Room is indeed the core of creation.



    Given the Room is also called the Heart/Mind of the Phoenix, this title would be accurate, since the Phoenix is characterized as not just the spark of creation, but nowadays completely responsible for it under Aaron’s pen. (I still don’t like his writing, but he is the canon for now)



    I think by pure accident, Aaron is accidentally making reality an ongoing theory of mine stating the Big Bang is the Phoenix Force being birthed and that everytime the multiverse dies, it is reborn, with the last multiverse that housed Galactus being the one where the Phoenix decided to save the mental signature of every living being in his universe and reincarnate them in the next universe over.

    The basis for the Big Bang part is that Iron Man said the energies of the Phoenix match the Big Bang in AvX and Reed Richards called the Phoenix the Big Bang at one point during a story arc where the Human Torch was a herald of Galactus. Now, I will move on to the next point while wearing my tin foil hat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reigna View Post
    Whether this house is in the white hot room or even above it is still unclear to me. Mystics and very powerful beings can enter the white hot room but only its native residents can actually navigate it, hence why jean was able to take control of the place as all pheonix hosts have somewhat of a direct connection to that space. Using it to bring herself back to life as the white hot room is where all beings go when they die as that's where the tower of death is.
    Not sure about the first sentence or last, so I won’t contradict you.(Granted, Phoenix: Song Echo has a former Phoenix host state that the Room is a gateway to the afterlife, but Jean has led her family into the White Hot Room, has said herself that everyone is always waiting for themselves there, and Sentry confirmed that after he died, the Void traveled to the White Hot Room. So, it’s unclear to me what is right, but I’m gonna assume that there might be multiple afterlives, similar to how there are multiple Death Gods in the Marvel Universe)

    As far as accessibility in the White Hot Room, you are correct. Mages and reality warpers can access it in and out and the Adversary showed that it’s confines can be manipulated without a host to protect its borders (because Echo was a damn idiot to let the man in on the word of an ancestor of hers, despite knowing full well how untrained Echo was). However, when there is a well-trained individual using the Phoenix’ powers (I.e. Jean, the Phoenix Force itself, and………..*sigh*…………Echo) they are capable of expelling and locking out/in people of the White Hot Room. I think the rules probably run similar to the M’Kraan Crystal (considering the Room is located in the crystal itself) in that anyone under the right circumstances can enter and manipulate its confines and the Phoenix or its host has to be capable of guarding it.

    So lesson of the day: Echo’s ancestor knows Jack squat and Echo was lucky that Forge and her beau got her out of a bad situation……and the lore of the Phoenix is interesting when it’s all gathered and expanded on, rather than being used as a way to hand every non-psychic a piece of it like sharing tic tacs. At least Echo is interesting in concept, even if the execution leaves much to be desired.

  5. #80
    Astonishing Member Reigna's Avatar
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    Yeah except the house fo ideas is the core of creation. the house of ideas literally being where marvel itself originated. Where all stories come from and where all charachters are born its share even the likes of abstracts are born....like I said retcons are a thing comic lore changes based on writers visions. And based on the very concept of the house of ideas being where the writers first started writing marvel it gives it more credence to it, as that was what marvel was called when it first started and there is a literal car sparked outside that has stan Lee and Jack kirby written on it the very embodiment of the one above all in the marvel universe. the house is a testament to where they actually lived when creating the universe long island New York. So yes the house of ideas is the very centre of all that was, all that is and all that will be. It is literally marvel the company itself as an entity.


    Also yeah it's the pheonix's mindscape but the pheonix isnt the only denizens of the white hot room death lives there too and from his talks with jean when she was there it appears there are other denizens of that realm also. The realm was explained as the alpha and omega of the marvel universe but ultimately implying that life starts there and ends there. As deaths towers are the literal afterlife of the marvel multiverse. With each person experiencing their own afterlife when they come there regardless of faith. The pheonix being the big bang makes sense due to one simple thing the universe is always being reborn. According to now marvel lore the multiverse has had several iterations with the first firmament existing before hand. The pheonix is a being of rebirth the passion of creation and the very sum of life... but no one created the first firmament infact how the first firmament came about is a mystery postulated as being created by the one above all themselves. But likely when the first firmament was being destroyed by it's own creations going to war the concept of rebirth aka pheonix was born to ensure that the next multiverse was brought into being and it has been so ever since. Concepts like magic science and even infinity hadn't been made yet subsequent multiverse will bring that about and will eventually die only to be reborn again. That chaos of death and life of the entire multiverse is tied directly to the very function of the pheonix same was as chaos, order, eons, love, hate, etc are all inner functions of the very embodiment of all that is aka eternity. There is a lot to explore there but frankly only ewing currently can handle those concepts without making them convoluted and a mess. Uatu said the pheonix is a force seccond in power only to the creator but then almost every cosmic being or abstract has stated that the living tribunal is infact the most powerful authority seccond only to the creator. Uatu has been known to be full of **** sometimes.


    Also I dont understand why many are hesitant towards the pheonix force being shared. The pheonix as a concept is literally the sum total of all life in the universe save for the abstracts who are more or less not alive in a sense. So far as a being lives they have the capacity to host the pheonix maybe some have a proclivity towards it than others but so far as you are a sentient living being you already posses a bit of the "spark" within you. So anyone and their mother being able to host the bird is not really out of line with the very lore of the pheonix... unless they change that to say pheonix created a specific genetic breed of hosts who will have a unique talent for hosting it which it seems claremot was going for when he was forced to rationalise why jean is coming back in xfactor, then it will make sense. Afterall that sort of behaviour is not really beneath it. Hence why the grey family like has a very strong genetic potency for hosting the force and why psychics are more receptive hosts as they are by nature able to access psionic energy of the pheonix which is the nexus of all psionic energy in the universe. Aside that every one and their mother can host it, hell even a fly could host it. The problem is not the hosts but the fact that pheonix is not being scarce with her appearance. The pheonix used to inspire awe and fear now she is just one of those random op superheroes.

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