Is Forge an omega level mutant now?

[Reigna]

I dont think the intent of the xmen issue was to state Jean was an omega tk and tp. when rogue says two omegas she's just expressing she's absorbed the power of an omega mutant. I understand retcons do and will occur but the data page makes it clear the omega power is normally only for one power.

She then proceeded to say that nothing is too small or too big for her to lift. This is the same writer that had her state that if the sword station got too big she wont be able to lift it guess he retconned that away.

[Reigna]

I am very much aware of what a retcon is. Needless to say, we don’t know if this is a retcon or a writing error that slipped by editorials notice like Emma being referred to as an Omega. At the very least with retcons we actually get an explanation for what happened in a story. This was merely a mention of Forge suddenly being an Omega and never addressed in-story.

And don’t patronize me with the thought of Jean becoming an Omega telekinetic. I do not care for who becomes what. I would like consistency in my stories so that the narrative makes sense. Random changes that ignore canon are frustrating to most people and often are used by uninformed individuals as correct because they somehow made onto the page.

Oh I am sorry was that patronizing? I apologise. But what is frustrating about forge now being omega? Or Jean being an omega tk now too? One made the rules and now they are changing the rules. Consistency hasn't been an xoffice string suit since after Claremont. So why would that be one now?

[butterflykyss]

She then proceeded to say that nothing is too small or too big for her to lift. This is the same writer that had her state that if the sword station got too big she wont be able to lift it guess he retconned that away.

yes I saw that part and though I understand the argument from said perspective it still does not mean rogue was inferring she was an omega tk especially considering Hickman made pretty clear she is only omega in telepathy. she can acknowledge how powerful she is a tk and it still be true she is only omega in the class of telepathy.

[butterflykyss]

I am very much aware of what a retcon is. Needless to say, we don’t know if this is a retcon or a writing error that slipped by editorials notice like Emma being referred to as an Omega. At the very least with retcons we actually get an explanation for what happened in a story. This was merely a mention of Forge suddenly being an Omega and never addressed in-story.

And don’t patronize me with the thought of Jean becoming an Omega telekinetic. I do not care for who becomes what. I would like consistency in my stories so that the narrative makes sense. Random changes that ignore canon are frustrating to most people and often are used by uninformed individuals as correct because they somehow made onto the page.

I agree wholeheartedly with the bolded. with ewing being a writer known to respect canon I would have preferred he not used the term omega technopath. that said one could argue that when he said omega he didn't literally mean omega mutant but just a technopath of the highest order.

[Reigna]

yes I saw that part and though I understand the argument from said perspective it still does not mean rogue was inferring she was an omega tk especially considering Hickman made pretty clear she is only omega in telepathy. she can acknowledge how powerful she is a tk and it still be true she is only omega in the class of telepathy.

Hickman also made it pretty clear that omega mutants had undefinable upper limits to their power, fast forward we have magneto needing an entire mutant circuit to boost his powers to push a metal station into the sun. Something that doesnt even work. All I am highlighting is that inconsistency is the rule of the game. One day a charachter is this the next they are that. It simply is what it is.

[Aeon]

Ok, when I look at the Omega Mutants list, they all have active power sets. Their powers are outgoing.

Probably there is a different level scaling for passive (inwards) power sets too?

Forge is said to be an Omega-Technopath. Not Cyberpath, but Technopath. Cyberpathy is when someone can communicate in digital language. With a software or the internet.
Technopath is someone who communicates with machines, like cars, printers, ships,..

And Magneto didn’t say Technoformer. Which are mutants like Whizz Kid, and Jeffries. They manipulate and telekinetically rearrange molecules of materials into every form they want.

[Reigna]

Ok, when I look at the Omega Mutants list, they all have active power sets. Their powers are outgoing.

Probably there is a different level scaling for passive (inwards) power sets too?

Forge is said to be an Omega-Technopath. Not Cyberpath, but Technopath. Cyberpathy is when someone can communicate in digital language. With a software or the internet.
Technopath is someone who communicates with machines, like cars, printers, ships,..

And Magneto didn’t say Technoformer. Which are mutants like Whizz Kid, and Jeffries. They manipulate and telekinetically rearrange molecules of materials into every form they want.

Also remember that it was stated that mutant technology has open more possibilities for twchnopaths allowing them to use their powers like never before. A paradigm shift in what is or isn't tech can drastically increase or decrease a mutants power. How do they define technology and what constitutes tech to them.

[PyroFN]

Oh I am sorry was that patronizing? I apologise. But what is frustrating about forge now being omega? Or Jean being an omega tk now too? One made the rules and now they are changing the rules. Consistency hasn't been an xoffice string suit since after Claremont. So why would that be one now?

Alright, I will simmer down. I suppose I did overreact and it wasn’t okay to jump to conclusions. I am sorry.

Continuing: Frustrating to some. Not me per se. People generally don’t like random characterizations out-of-nowhere, unless the character didn’t have one to begin with that was captivating. Something like Guggenheim having Jean Grey tell Rachel randomly she isn’t her daughter after this was resolved back in the 90’s before Jean’s wedding. Just forgetting characterizations or creating random ones that don’t make sense or are interesting to the characters.

I will also disagree on the notion of consistency. The X-Office isn’t perfect, but they have held onto a lot of important consistency in their titles. Any changes they do make are hit or miss, even for me, who generally tries to give the benefit of the doubt to writers.

[PyroFN]

I agree wholeheartedly with the bolded. with ewing being a writer known to respect canon I would have preferred he not used the term omega technopath. that said one could argue that when he said omega he didn't literally mean omega mutant but just a technopath of the highest order.

I am presuming much the same, in a similar sense to Fraction coining the “Omega Class Telepath” term. It’s meant to be a measure of the most powerful telepaths that did not stick because it was way too confusing. If Ewing is trying to use “Omega” as a term for high class anything, it will be confusing. I understand the mindset, but it’s been done before with no success.

If Forge does end up being a new Omega, though, this will have fireworks from fans of other more legitimate technopathic characters.

[Lukmendes]

Magneto's power level is one that really confounds me, like dont get me wrong he is powerful but omega? Really? His deadliness yes partly came from his sheer might, but most of the time it's simply because he knew how to apply his very vast knowledge on electromagnetism to accomplish things only dreamt of and he was ruthless. He always had the risk of burning out his powers and to me once you can literally burn out out powers they arent as unlimited as you think.

But he is omegas now so says cannon and he still couldn't push the station into the sun basically because the dyson
energies were too much for him, aka he cant overcome the power of a star. So why not send any other omega after the Dyson, like take legion or monarch or anyone. Magneto's high end feats are really inconsistent he always uses amos in one way or another. So why send him to do something he likely cant do.

It's specially weird to claim he's an Omega and have those two attempts where he tried to destroy Orchis' sun base, and in the second attempt, he was powered up by someone else, and still couldn't do anything lol.

I agree wholeheartedly with the bolded. with ewing being a writer known to respect canon I would have preferred he not used the term omega technopath. that said one could argue that when he said omega he didn't literally mean omega mutant but just a technopath of the highest order.

Honestly, he could've said something like that without using the word "Omega" if the intention wasn't to imply he's an Omega level mutant.

Hickman said once on twitter that he made a guide with like, 5000 words to indicate when the word "Omega" can and can't be used, wonder what happened to that lol.

Thinking of it, it's kinda funny X-Men Red#4 has two moments like this, Magneto saying Forge is an Omega, and Xavier being called one of the strongest telepaths in the universe, which can imply he's an Omega (Though the word Omega wasn't used in his case), both in the same issue.

[Reigna]

It's specially weird to claim he's an Omega and have those two attempts where he tried to destroy Orchis' sun base, and in the second attempt, he was powered up by someone else, and still couldn't do anything lol.



Honestly, he could've said something like that without using the word "Omega" if the intention wasn't to imply he's an Omega level mutant.

Hickman said once on twitter that he made a guide with like, 5000 words to indicate when the word "Omega" can and can't be used, wonder what happened to that lol.

Thinking of it, it's kinda funny X-Men Red#4 has two moments like this, Magneto saying Forge is an Omega, and Xavier being called one of the strongest telepaths in the universe, which can imply he's an Omega (Though the word Omega wasn't used in his case), both in the same issue.

He was powered up by an entire circuit and he still couldn't do anything to the base. Like its sooo baffling how he got the omega title. Because thats is a very clear limit if I do say so myself.



So on the omega thing, leah said that writers adhere to a very different power system that fans. The omega thing is to help indicate who is this or that for fan battles and debates. But inverse in story omega doesnt really mean much considering spiderman has beaten the entire xmen team before. Stan Lee said who will win in a battle will be determined by the writer, to one writer galactus can not be beaten to another galactus can easily be beaten. That's just how it is.

[BobbysWorld]

To be honest, one of the more vague and conflicting aspects of the omega title is what exactly is meant by near limitless power. Is it 'there's a near infinite number of ways omega mutants can learn to use their power' or is it 'they have a near limitless reservoir of power to draw upon to fuel their feats'....because at times its been treated as being one or the other, or both, or neither and it means something else entirely.

Interestingly, one of the reasons that used to be cited as to WHY Magneto wasn't an omega mutant, back before Hickman's list and soft-reboot of the concept, was the fact that so frequently throughout his history, Magneto's powers have been boosted by either machines, other mutants, etc. Back during the era of X-Men Forever and the early exploration of the omega mutant concepts, this was often juxtaposed with then-established omegas like Bobby, Jean, Legion, etc.....because the contrast given at the time was Magneto was extremely powerful, yes, but he could be made MORE powerful by external forces. Early omega mutants (early in the context of Marvel's exploration of the idea), were specifically cited as being so limitless in power that practically speaking, they COULDN'T be boosted by external sources, because their own power reserves so drastically surpassed what anyone else could add to the equation, external power boosts were negligible. It was like the equivalent of turning on a sink faucet to add to an already existing ocean. Like, yeah you might be adding more power, but there was so much power already available, the 'addition' of power from a non-omega source was so minor in comparison, it didn't really even factor in.

Now, obviously that's changed, but I still find it an interesting tidbit to note. *Shrugs* Personally, I do wish they kept things more along that line. The whole concept of omega is so hyped, it feels a bit weird and underwhelming to have omegas boosted by external sources. Like, if half the point of omegas is that on their own, they have enough raw power at their disposal to influence things on a global scale, reshape or unmake entire worlds, then how much energy can a non-omega really add on TOP of that, y'know? Like, 'plugging' an omega into a circuit of enough other mutants could feasibly power-up even an omega mutant, but having omegas boosted by singular power enhancers like Cortez is a bit odd, unless that mutant is considered to have enough additional power to contribute, its the equivalent of an omega mutant's existing power.

*Shrugs* Honestly I think the big thing is that Hickman's re-defining of the concept didn't really so much....streamline the concept as just raise different questions about it. It was a lateral move rather than an improvement, lol. Obviously I like the concept of omega mutants but I wish the term wasn't thrown around in comics as the equivalent of clickbait and there was more actual examination of what it means and how it works. And nah, I just don't think Hickman's data page about the term actually does the job there, since like I and many others have pointed out in the years since it was published, it was a very superficial take that didn't really put a ton of consideration into the concept or the implications of its own definition of the term.

[Reigna]

To be honest, one of the more vague and conflicting aspects of the omega title is what exactly is meant by near limitless power. Is it 'there's a near infinite number of ways omega mutants can learn to use their power' or is it 'they have a near limitless reservoir of power to draw upon to fuel their feats'....because at times its been treated as being one or the other, or both, or neither and it means something else entirely.

Interestingly, one of the reasons that used to be cited as to WHY Magneto wasn't an omega mutant, back before Hickman's list and soft-reboot of the concept, was the fact that so frequently throughout his history, Magneto's powers have been boosted by either machines, other mutants, etc. Back during the era of X-Men Forever and the early exploration of the omega mutant concepts, this was often juxtaposed with then-established omegas like Bobby, Jean, Legion, etc.....because the contrast given at the time was Magneto was extremely powerful, yes, but he could be made MORE powerful by external forces. Early omega mutants (early in the context of Marvel's exploration of the idea), were specifically cited as being so limitless in power that practically speaking, they COULDN'T be boosted by external sources, because their own power reserves so drastically surpassed what anyone else could add to the equation, external power boosts were negligible. It was like the equivalent of turning on a sink faucet to add to an already existing ocean. Like, yeah you might be adding more power, but there was so much power already available, the 'addition' of power from a non-omega source was so minor in comparison, it didn't really even factor in.

Now, obviously that's changed, but I still find it an interesting tidbit to note. *Shrugs* Personally, I do wish they kept things more along that line. The whole concept of omega is so hyped, it feels a bit weird and underwhelming to have omegas boosted by external sources. Like, if half the point of omegas is that on their own, they have enough raw power at their disposal to influence things on a global scale, reshape or unmake entire worlds, then how much energy can a non-omega really add on TOP of that, y'know? Like, 'plugging' an omega into a circuit of enough other mutants could feasibly power-up even an omega mutant, but having omegas boosted by singular power enhancers like Cortez is a bit odd, unless that mutant is considered to have enough additional power to contribute, its the equivalent of an omega mutant's existing power.

*Shrugs* Honestly I think the big thing is that Hickman's re-defining of the concept didn't really so much....streamline the concept as just raise different questions about it. It was a lateral move rather than an improvement, lol. Obviously I like the concept of omega mutants but I wish the term wasn't thrown around in comics as the equivalent of clickbait and there was more actual examination of what it means and how it works. And nah, I just don't think Hickman's data page about the term actually does the job there, since like I and many others have pointed out in the years since it was published, it was a very superficial take that didn't really put a ton of consideration into the concept or the implications of its own definition of the term.

I am a storm scholar so I can only speak on her specifically since I have a very intimate knowledge of her skills and abilities. And I will say both. Using storm as an example. Storms omega powerset is weather manipulation. Now to the average reader this simply means she can make very big storms possibly planet wide or even solar system wide storms and such, hurl giant thunderbolt and create one thousand miles per hour wind...etc. but that will he far from the truth. Storms weather manipulation like you might know works very differently from others basically she is an elemental and energy manipulator rolled into one. The very energies and elements that make up weather anywhere she can control it. She had demonstrated that it doesnt even matter whether said element was originally part of weather systems in the environment she can still manipulate it if she wants to case In point the nano bot wind storm. In theory storm can go to any planet or any dimension nor environment and get new abilities and powers.


In one world she could control glass, create lasers, manipulate skeletons...etc. simply because that was the elements of the weather on that planet. On Neptune Uranus or Saturn I believe she will be able to manipulate the diamond rains and such which are part of the weather systems there. The possibilities truly are endless in sheed versatility as she has a very broad control of energy ranging from electrical, to magical to cosmic to extra dimensional. And her potency with these are very high seeing as she could absorb the power of millions of suns in a very simple process only perishing after she exposed herself to deep space and couldn't breathe.


Hence why I am very confused by the fact that they wont send her to go destroy the ship but rather magneto when storm has demonstrated on multiple occasions she can easily dish out the power of a star in excess. But I guess hickman wanted to make orchis seem threatening.

[BobbysWorld]

I am a storm scholar so I can only speak on her specifically since I have a very intimate knowledge of her skills and abilities. And I will say both. Using storm as an example. Storms omega powerset is weather manipulation. Now to the average reader this simply means she can make very big storms possibly planet wide or even solar system wide storms and such, hurl giant thunderbolt and create one thousand miles per hour wind...etc. but that will he far from the truth. Storms weather manipulation like you might know works very differently from others basically she is an elemental and energy manipulator rolled into one. The very energies and elements that make up weather anywhere she can control it. She had demonstrated that it doesnt even matter whether said element was originally part of weather systems in the environment she can still manipulate it if she wants to case In point the nano bot wind storm. In theory storm can go to any planet or any dimension nor environment and get new abilities and powers.


In one world she could control glass, create lasers, manipulate skeletons...etc. simply because that was the elements of the weather on that planet. On Neptune Uranus or Saturn I believe she will be able to manipulate the diamond rains and such which are part of the weather systems there. The possibilities truly are endless in sheed versatility as she has a very broad control of energy ranging from electrical, to magical to cosmic to extra dimensional. And her potency with these are very high seeing as she could absorb the power of millions of suns in a very simple process only perishing after she exposed herself to deep space and couldn't breathe.


Hence why I am very confused by the fact that they wont send her to go destroy the ship but rather magneto when storm has demonstrated on multiple occasions she can easily dish out the power of a star in excess. But I guess hickman wanted to make orchis seem threatening.

Yeah, we're just destined to be eternally confused and shaking our heads at why Orchis is such an alleged epic threat to mutantkind when there's a good twenty-five omega mutants that should be able to take out its Mother Mold factory on their own, and even failing that, they could have come up with SO many better assault teams than just sending X-Force's squad of....three people, to try and do it over and over. This will never not be bad writing to me. Sigh. You just can't have mutants terraforming an entire planet in a night in one issue and then pretend there's absolutely nothing those same mutants could do about a giant factory orbiting a sun, when like, a good six of those mutants should be able to dunk that factory straight into the sun. Magneto can't get the job done? Send Storm. Send Vulcan. Use Exodus' omega level Tinkerbell power and have all of Krakoa clap their hands and say WE BELIEVE IN YOU, BESTIE until he's beefed up enough to punt that factory into the sun like its a soccer ball. The second Bobby used his powers to freeze reality around that Evil Eldritch Snowflake in his Infinity Comic, the Quiet Council should have showed up on his doorstep to be like hey Bobster, we have a mission for you, go do that to the Sentinel Factory in space plz. Have Monarch and Proteus compete to see who can burp the damn thing out of existence faster. There are SO many other things they could've tried instead of just being like 'welp, we sent Logan, Quentin and Domino to try and blow it up for the twentieth time with no luck, I guess that's it, there's just absolutely nothing to be done about this place, guess we just have to live with it.'

fahlskfhalkfhklfhfalh

I'm sorry but the Sentinel Factory bugs me SO MUCH, its just SUCH a bad plot point, why is it still a thing. Dear Marvel make better villains, plz. There's 'suspension of disbelief' and then there's 'I am in disbelief that you think I can suspend my disbelief THIS much.'

(Seriously, this particular plot point is such a clear plot hole, its practically a singularity unto itself).

[Reigna]

Yeah, we're just destined to be eternally confused and shaking our heads at why Orchis is such an alleged epic threat to mutantkind when there's a good twenty-five omega mutants that should be able to take out its Mother Mold factory on their own, and even failing that, they could have come up with SO many better assault teams than just sending X-Force's squad of....three people, to try and do it over and over. This will never not be bad writing to me. Sigh. You just can't have mutants terraforming an entire planet in a night in one issue and then pretend there's absolutely nothing those same mutants could do about a giant factory orbiting a sun, when like, a good six of those mutants should be able to dunk that factory straight into the sun. Magneto can't get the job done? Send Storm. Send Vulcan. Use Exodus' omega level Tinkerbell power and have all of Krakoa clap their hands and say WE BELIEVE IN YOU, BESTIE until he's beefed up enough to punt that factory into the sun like its a soccer ball. The second Bobby used his powers to freeze reality around that Evil Eldritch Snowflake in his Infinity Comic, the Quiet Council should have showed up on his doorstep to be like hey Bobster, we have a mission for you, go do that to the Sentinel Factory in space plz. Have Monarch and Proteus compete to see who can burp the damn thing out of existence faster. There are SO many other things they could've tried instead of just being like 'welp, we sent Logan, Quentin and Domino to try and blow it up for the twentieth time with no luck, I guess that's it, there's just absolutely nothing to be done about this place, guess we just have to live with it.'

fahlskfhalkfhklfhfalh

I'm sorry but the Sentinel Factory bugs me SO MUCH, its just SUCH a bad plot point, why is it still a thing. Dear Marvel make better villains, plz. There's 'suspension of disbelief' and then there's 'I am in disbelief that you think I can suspend my disbelief THIS much.'

(Seriously, this particular plot point is such a clear plot hole, its practically a singularity unto itself).

Exactly like this is a problem that shouldnt be a problem.