Magneto vs Uranos begins in X-Men Red #5 Preview

[CoCoBandz]

If they were hardened by war, then how could they have died so easily this time?

Can they be resurrected by the five?

Because the plot called for it as per usual. Gillen so much as said so in his most recent interview.

Uranus would have been made as powerful as Eternity if need be.

[Baron of Faltine]

Because the plot called for it as per usual. Gillen so much as said so in his most recent interview.

Uranus would have been made as powerful as Eternity if need be.

In a way all comics work like that(is how Superman get mind controlled or gimped everything he go to Gotham...or how a random new villain can take down the entire team of super experienced heroes off panel, just because)
Nothing new.
But I want to add that Arraki fame as war hardened race is too nothing new( the oldest example I can rember in modern pop culture are the Klingons) and generally means only to build up as foil to show how terrible the new menace is..aka the worf effect.
In case of Arraki there is also the little implied fact common to this trope that is rarely addressed or acknowledged. They are green, as they only experienced war against a single, brutish, horde styled low demons, who were horrifying and strong for sure, but offered very little in variety of opponents or challenges. I doubt those demons had their Rommel, Patton, Napoleon or Nelson to put the Arrakinin crisis, that what I am saying. Nor they had such variety of powers or tactics or resources that would be a too much out fo the box problem for the Arraki to deal in the moment. I say in the moment because endless they really are morons they can and will adapt quickly(hence why new villains rarely can repeat their initial powerful exploit).
We saw multiple examples of how, except few clever ones, lot of Arraki warriors behave and act like they were in space cimmeria and everyone agree to fighting in glorious melee combat. I think for most part ti's habit, since they ha fought dumb lower demons all their life.

[sensormellow]

No sorry it was this

Reading X-Men Red #5 (on sale August 3) by @Al_Ewing, @St3Caselli, @toonfed, & crew. It's so flippin' good, at one point I dropped the comic, thrust my hands high in the air, and made a weird sound with my throat. #AXEJudgmentDay rules! #XSpoilers #xtwitter #MarvelsPullList https://t.co/ppXcikIX87

omg please tell me they're not happy because everyone on the Great Ring dies

[Sutekh]

In case of Arraki there is also the little implied fact common to this trope that is rarely addressed or acknowledged. They are green, as they only experienced war against a single, brutish, horde styled low demons, who were horrifying and strong for sure, but offered very little in variety of opponents or challenges.

Yeah, it's kind of telling that the mutants of Arakko had thousands of years to fight off hordes of infinite mook demons, led by Isca, Genesis, War, Famine, Death and Pestilence, and while we can assume that many generations of mutants died (and millions of demons) over that time, *they didn't kill a single named enemy.* All six of the mutants leading those demons were fine, after millenia of the Arakki throwing everything they had, including a dozen or more Omegas, at them. (And we know they have more than a dozen, since there were weekly challenges for Ororo's seat for awhile, and none of them could have challenged for the seat if they weren't Omegas!)

The Arakki are hot stuff against the equivalent of Brood drones, in endless hordes, but against other actual super-powered threats, seem to be utterly crap.

If they were any good at all, at least some of Apocalypse's kids would have needed to be replaced over the centuries, and Genesis' Horsemen would be on Pestilence 4 and War 7 by now.

[Ra-El]

If they were any good at all, at least some of Apocalypse's kids would have needed to be replaced over the centuries, and Genesis' Horsemen would be on Pestilence 4 and War 7 by now.

This^^

The most impressive thing about Apocalypse's kids is how dificult is to decide each one most be the biggest disapointment. I mean, for a guy who spent eons preaching about survival of the strongest, he probably was really ashamed of those jobbers. I can only see their surviving for so long as a gigantic example of nepotism and privilege, Genesis most have protected the hell out of them.

[Habis]

Yeah, it's kind of telling that the mutants of Arakko had thousands of years to fight off hordes of infinite mook demons, led by Isca, Genesis, War, Famine, Death and Pestilence, and while we can assume that many generations of mutants died (and millions of demons) over that time, *they didn't kill a single named enemy.* All six of the mutants leading those demons were fine, after millenia of the Arakki throwing everything they had, including a dozen or more Omegas, at them. (And we know they have more than a dozen, since there were weekly challenges for Ororo's seat for awhile, and none of them could have challenged for the seat if they weren't Omegas!)

The Arakki are hot stuff against the equivalent of Brood drones, in endless hordes, but against other actual super-powered threats, seem to be utterly crap.

If they were any good at all, at least some of Apocalypse's kids would have needed to be replaced over the centuries, and Genesis' Horsemen would be on Pestilence 4 and War 7 by now.

I think the Arakki were defeated and made vassals of Annihilation as soon as Genesis donned the helm and became Annihilation...

[Sutekh]

This^^

The most impressive thing about Apocalypse's kids is how dificult is to decide each one most be the biggest disapointment. I mean, for a guy who spent eons preaching about survival of the strongest, he probably was really ashamed of those jobbers. I can only see their surviving for so long as a gigantic example of nepotism and privilege, Genesis most have protected the hell out of them.

Seriously though, Genesis was supposed to be some sort of Omega, and all we ever saw was her throw some vines at people (which never seemed to matter, since she was using them against folk like Apocalypse...). *If* her Omega power was some sort of life-force-generation, then she might indeed have been, like White Sword, an Omega level healer, and her children might have been killed dozens of times over the millenia, only for her to bring them back. (But, if she *could* resurrect her fam, she obviously did NOT choose to resurrect War's baby daddy, Summoner's father, whom Isca killed, since he stayed dead, which pissed off War, but it's not like her opinion mattered much...)

It would certainly make sense that her fearsome power was more than 'make useless vines.' Throw on some ridonkulous Omega healing, and she can almost single-handedly make her own small force of mutant Horsemen more or less unstoppable... (And unlike that schmuck White Sword, she can also do some attacks by feeding life-force into local plant life and making it grow all out of control or whatever. She'd be like the anti-Selene. Instead of draining life-energy and using it to do stuff, she pumps it out to heal or enliven/animate organic matter.)

I do find it amusing that Genesis was all pooh-poohing Apocalyse for being weak, and then he kind of kicks her butt. She last saw him *millenia* ago, when his fearsome mutant power was *stretching.* No wonder she wasn't impressed! Since then he's pretty much added all the Eternal powers to himself. Invulnerability, strength, telepathy, energy blasts, etc. (thanks Celestials for leaving all that stuff behind!) She's all 'you were always weaker than me!' and he's like, 'I've leveled up since then. A LOT.'

[BobbysWorld]

Seriously though, Genesis was supposed to be some sort of Omega, and all we ever saw was her throw some vines at people (which never seemed to matter, since she was using them against folk like Apocalypse...). *If* her Omega power was some sort of life-force-generation....*snip*

Oh yeah, I'm definitely of the opinion that Genesis' power isn't omega level plant-manipulation, like a lot of people assumed from the few uses of it we saw, but rather life force manipulation, which among other things allows her to weaponize plant life in various ways, as you said. The inexplicable longevity so many Arakkii seem to have without any indication their long lifespans are tied to their own powers in any way - I'm betting that was Genesis' doing. You have a finite force of mutant warriors trying to hold the line against a seemingly endless horde of demons who are replaced as quickly as you kill them? If the option is available, you'd want to make that finite force last for as long as you possibly can, especially when the only likely chance of reinforcements comes from those warriors' own children. Growing a fighting force's numbers via population increase is something that takes TIME, especially when you're losing warriors in battle all the while.....you can't afford to wage a war on two fronts against both the demons and the passage of time/threat of losing your fighters to old age.

If only the leader of this fighting force were an omega level mutant with the power to manipulate life force in all kinds of ways.....such as by buttressing her peoples' natural life forces in order to increase their innate vitality and jack up their base stats, make 'centuries' the default minimum lifespan for her warriors. And thus giving the Arakkii more of a buffer for adding to their population and raising new generations of warriors that add to their numbers faster than old age can whittle them down. Theoretically, depending on how large the population of Arakko's first generation was when they began their war with Amenth, they might have lost a war of attrition long before losing to Annihilation/the Amenthi hordes, without whatever it was that made so many of those first gen Arakkii so long-lived, as well as many Arakkii of later generations (like even Kobak Never-Held mentioned being born over a century ago).

Granted, it could be something like 'mutants in general used to be more long-lived until the splitting of Okarra/Arakko falling into the rift with Amenth' but I find that extremely unlikely for a number of reasons. In particular, while we didn't see any sign of other Okkaran mutants staying behind like Apocalypse, I doubt he could have been the ONLY one - I imagine at least some families stayed in the hopes of helping to rebuild a mutant population not consumed by war, in order to maybe someday help go rescue Arakko - and if extreme longevity were a common mutant trait in the time of Okkara, its very weird that something like that wouldn't have ended up passed along to later generations of Earth mutants descended from that group.

So in all likelihood, whatever accounts for the Arakkii tendency towards extremely long lifespans, so long as they don't die in battle....its something that happened after the war began, when Arakko was in Amenth. And Genesis is by far the most likely candidate when it comes to who might be responsible for said longevity, but if it was her, it almost definitely means her powers have more to do with just life force in general, as opposed to plant manipulation.

I am curious to see if the logistics of Arakkii longevity come up in future X-Men Red issues. Not just to find out what exactly is responsible for that trait and who did it, when and why (if its not for the reasons I assumed and outlined above)....but also it could raise some really interesting conversations between Arakkii and Krakoans as they seek common ground and a better understanding of each other's culture.

For instance, obviously the Arakkii way of life (in general) disdains the concept of Krakoan resurrection....which Krakoans invented specifically as a result of having lived through tons of attempted genocides that cut down Earth's mutant populations by whole millions or hundreds of thousands of mutants in single strikes. Once you've lived through several mass extinction events that reduce your population to one percent of what it once was, you kinda stop taking for granted that you can even AFFORD to spend whole generations restoring your numbers via a normal population growth. Because who knows when the next attempted genocide might come along and take out whatever remains of the existing generations of mutant elders, even five or ten years into hoping your population ends up replenished via natural baby booms, y'know?

And thus it not only makes sense to try and figure out ways to use mutant powers and resources to not just regrow your numbers to their pre-genocide numbers....its easy to see how THAT culture of mutants could likely deem it a NECESSITY to figure out how to reverse widespread culling of millions of mutants....in as near as they can get to the same scant time it took to decimate the mutant population by that amount in the first place. With Krakoan resurrection technology being the solution they figured out, to make themselves a viable people again, and in a short enough span of time that they could be prepared - numbers wise - to face the next time a mass extermination event came bearing down at them.

The Arakkii perspective doesn't account for the awareness and lived experiences Krakoans have with seeing how quickly they can go from a thriving population to a handful of survivors, and by the time they even arrived on the scene, Krakoans had established their 'new normal' firmly enough that its easy to only see resurrection as an indulgence made by a soft people unused to challenges and unwilling to face them. But from the Krakoan perspective, resurrection technology might be great to have and something they're all still actively getting used to and exploring and yes, even taking advantage of, as INDIVIDUALS......but juxtaposed with all that is the very keen awareness that it wasn't something their scientists just whipped up to make their lives better per se.....that's an undeniable byproduct, but it was created to service a specific NEED.....a way to give their people the kind of safety that ONLY lies in numbers, and fortify their race against the seemingly inevitable next thing to come along and try to drop them from a few million to a few thousand again.

Now, contrast this with the possibility that its not just a few long-lived Arakkii here and there, but in fact, increased longevity/lifespans IS a widespread trait shared by at least a sizable portion of the Arakkii population...and the likelihood that if this is the case, its almost certainly due to something Genesis or some other mutant or mutants did, to give them a better shot at lasting as long as they did in the war with Amenth. You could argue then, that what the Arakkii did to increase their lifespans....is something that anyone outside their community, like humans, would be just as likely to call 'an indulgence,' were it to be stripped of all context like the REASONS the Arakkii did it, and how they likely viewed it as a necessary part of their thousands-year war with an immortal enemy.

After all, its one thing to say we don't fear a life that ends, when you know you could live centuries or millennia so long as you don't die in battle....but are in a constant state of war and thus still assume there's a strong chance of dying by violence on any given day. Its another thing entirely when you still have that same natural lifespan, but now that forever-war is over and there's a much greater chance that life could go on for centuries before something brings it to an end.

(Or at least, that would be the case if Arakko hadn't jumped out of the Amenthi frying pan and right back into the fire that is Earth's solar system, home of habitual attempted mutant genocides.)

Point being, if the average Krakoan were unfamiliar with the length and state of the Arakkii struggle against Amenth's demons before they were brought back to this dimension and settled on Mars.....one might feasibly point to an Arakkii with a centuries or millennia long lifespan, thanks to something one or more of Arakko's mutants did at some point in the past.....and say: "Dude, someone in your civilization handed you guys lifetime passes to the 'Dying of Old Age is a Choice, And I Choose Not To Make It' club, but you're gonna give us **** cuz we called foul on attacks that wipe millions of us out in seconds and said 'nah, do over' because we're not gonna let that be how our story ends so long as we have the power to change that?"

[BobbysWorld]

Anyway, idle speculation by me is idle, but all of the above is stuff I've been musing about for awhile, and a key part of why I've always been assuming this event might actually broaden the resurrection protocols' usage, rather than reduce it.....I think the nature of Uranos' attack on Arakko, and grappling with that particular degree of senseless death and destruction....that could lead some Arakkii to rethinking their stance on Krakoan resurrection, and finding it a viable option in SOME instances, like this one. A lot of the Arakkii ideas about honor and warfare seem tied up in the kind of battles where you're used to facing an enemy one on one, looking them in the eyes as you kill them or them you. Its easier to ground yourself in that kind of conflict, I think, than one where civilian populations can get wiped out by a single WMD nothing can actually defend against. You - or your loved ones - can take a kind of comfort in the first scenario, that at least you fought valiantly against a worthy enemy. There's nothing like that to be found in the kind of impersonal strike that takes out an entire swath of planet in a single stroke. And its that difference in TYPE of conflict, IMO, that could be a gamechanger in terms of how this impacts Arakkii culture in the longrun.

In a sense, both the Arakkii and Krakoans might have done similar things in finding ways to use mutant powers to bolster their populations' numbers.....and with these 'solutions' adding tangible benefits to the lives and options of individual mutants at the exact same time.....while still being solutions that were conceived of and implemented because they were deemed necessary for ensuring their longterm survival as a PEOPLE. And it would be interesting, IMO, to see conversations along those lines, between characters from the two mutant nations, as they conclude they might not be that different after all.....its just their different experiences and frames of reference skew various assumptions of the other, and why the one culture might be baffled by the way the other views some things as a necessity or as particularly obvious, etc, etc.

[Habis]

Seriously though, Genesis was supposed to be some sort of Omega, and all we ever saw was her throw some vines at people (which never seemed to matter, since she was using them against folk like Apocalypse...). *If* her Omega power was some sort of life-force-generation, then she might indeed have been, like White Sword, an Omega level healer, and her children might have been killed dozens of times over the millenia, only for her to bring them back. (But, if she *could* resurrect her fam, she obviously did NOT choose to resurrect War's baby daddy, Summoner's father, whom Isca killed, since he stayed dead, which pissed off War, but it's not like her opinion mattered much...)

It would certainly make sense that her fearsome power was more than 'make useless vines.' Throw on some ridonkulous Omega healing, and she can almost single-handedly make her own small force of mutant Horsemen more or less unstoppable... (And unlike that schmuck White Sword, she can also do some attacks by feeding life-force into local plant life and making it grow all out of control or whatever. She'd be like the anti-Selene. Instead of draining life-energy and using it to do stuff, she pumps it out to heal or enliven/animate organic matter.)

I do find it amusing that Genesis was all pooh-poohing Apocalyse for being weak, and then he kind of kicks her butt. She last saw him *millenia* ago, when his fearsome mutant power was *stretching.* No wonder she wasn't impressed! Since then he's pretty much added all the Eternal powers to himself. Invulnerability, strength, telepathy, energy blasts, etc. (thanks Celestials for leaving all that stuff behind!) She's all 'you were always weaker than me!' and he's like, 'I've leveled up since then. A LOT.'

None of Apocalypse's children were Omegas, were they? So they were banned from entering the ruling Council...

[mugen]

It's strange that his children are not omega, it would have been logical that there is one or two in the family but there is only genesis.

[king of hybrids]

It's strange that his children are not omega, it would have been logical that there is one or two in the family but there is only genesis.

On the other hand it’s a nice dig at some of the more questionable takes on mutant superiority that crops up at times

[Sutekh]

It's strange that his children are not omega, it would have been logical that there is one or two in the family but there is only genesis.

Note that 'Poccy himself is technically not even an Omega. He's basically a mutant Reed Richards, with stretchy powers, who has juiced on Celestial tech and given himself basically Eternal powers (flight, energy blasts, strength, toughness, telepathy, etc.). And while Genesis was Omega, there's plenty of precedent for Omega mutants having non-Omega kids. Magneto and Polaris. Jean and Rachel/Cable. Etc.

Thanks to Graydon Creed (and also suggested with characters like the Fisher King), it's also established that mutant parents can have a non-mutant kid! (I do really wonder what generally happens with the, potentially hundreds of thousands, over the centuries, of non-mutant kids born to the Arakki on Amenth?)

Oh yeah, I'm definitely of the opinion that Genesis' power isn't omega level plant-manipulation, like a lot of people assumed from the few uses of it we saw, but rather life force manipulation, which among other things allows her to weaponize plant life in various ways, as you said. The inexplicable longevity so many Arakkii seem to have without any indication their long lifespans are tied to their own powers in any way - I'm betting that was Genesis' doing. You have a finite force of mutant warriors trying to hold the line against a seemingly endless horde of demons who are replaced as quickly as you kill them? If the option is available, you'd want to make that finite force last for as long as you possibly can, especially when the only likely chance of reinforcements comes from those warriors' own children. Growing a fighting force's numbers via population increase is something that takes TIME, especially when you're losing warriors in battle all the while.....you can't afford to wage a war on two fronts against both the demons and the passage of time/threat of losing your fighters to old age.

I could definitely see mama Genesis being the reason why her sister Isca and her kids the Horsmen lived so long, but bear in mind that she's been on the opposite side from the vast, vast number of Arakki for centuries, if not millenia. Genesis, as Annhilation, was leading the demon armies attempting to kill all of them for countless ages, and they survived, and even thrived *despite* this. (Although they had a dozen plus Omegas, as well as third party factions like Tarn and the White Sword and the Summoners out there, as well, who seemed to be allies, sometimes, and foes, at other times.)

There's just tons and tons of story potential about what's been going on in Amenth, for all these centuries, or even, what's going on *now* in Amenth, now that it's mostly unled demon hordes, a faction of Genesis, Apocalypse and the Horsemen, and the White Sword and all his followers (who, if I'm not mistaken, did not come to Earth with Arakko), remaining there.

[BobbysWorld]

Note that 'Poccy himself is technically not even an Omega. He's basically a mutant Reed Richards, with stretchy powers, who has juiced on Celestial tech and given himself basically Eternal powers (flight, energy blasts, strength, toughness, telepathy, etc.). And while Genesis was Omega, there's plenty of precedent for Omega mutants having non-Omega kids. Magneto and Polaris. Jean and Rachel/Cable. Etc.

Thanks to Graydon Creed (and also suggested with characters like the Fisher King), it's also established that mutant parents can have a non-mutant kid! (I do really wonder what generally happens with the, potentially hundreds of thousands, over the centuries, of non-mutant kids born to the Arakki on Amenth?)



I could definitely see mama Genesis being the reason why her sister Isca and her kids the Horsmen lived so long, but bear in mind that she's been on the opposite side from the vast, vast number of Arakki for centuries, if not millenia. Genesis, as Annhilation, was leading the demon armies attempting to kill all of them for countless ages, and they survived, and even thrived *despite* this. (Although they had a dozen plus Omegas, as well as third party factions like Tarn and the White Sword and the Summoners out there, as well, who seemed to be allies, sometimes, and foes, at other times.)

There's just tons and tons of story potential about what's been going on in Amenth, for all these centuries, or even, what's going on *now* in Amenth, now that it's mostly unled demon hordes, a faction of Genesis, Apocalypse and the Horsemen, and the White Sword and all his followers (who, if I'm not mistaken, did not come to Earth with Arakko), remaining there.

No, Genesis becoming Annihilation was what ENDED the war with Amenth, in the form of Arakko becoming subsumed as part of Amenth under Genesis/Annihilation's rule, and that's when the combined armies of Arakko and Amenth turned their attention towards Dryador, the rest of Otherworld, and returning to Earth.

Isca was the one who fought against Arakko for millennia, but the comics were pretty clear that it was only a century or at most two centuries ago that Genesis put together an attack force to try and drive back Amenth once and for all. This is what led to Genesis facing off against Annihilation in a duel, which she WON.....and that's how she lost, because Annihilation is an entity that seeks to constantly claim the strongest there is, and by defeating Annihilation's last host, Genesis became the focus of Annihilation's new search for a host. And this led to Genesis being imprisoned in Amenth while resisting Annihilation's attempts to get her to put on the golden helmet......and it was during this same span of time that Arakko was an occupied territory under Amenth rule, with Tarn ruling the Abyssal Prisons, the Vile seeking out any talk of insurrection, etc.

And then Genesis finally caved and put on the helmet, becoming Annihilation, and combined Amenth and Arakko's armies before turning to Otherworld.

[MkDiz]

Note that 'Poccy himself is technically not even an Omega. He's basically a mutant Reed Richards, with stretchy powers, who has juiced on Celestial tech and given himself basically Eternal powers (flight, energy blasts, strength, toughness, telepathy, etc.). And while Genesis was Omega, there's plenty of precedent for Omega mutants having non-Omega kids. Magneto and Polaris. Jean and Rachel/Cable. Etc.

Cable and Rachel were omegas though. It just got retconned and even then we dont know if Cable with his powers are omega or not.