Sabretooth 4 spoilers: Capital Crimes On Krakoa I.E. PITiable

[Huntsman Spider]

Charles was a moderate centrist leaning slightly left. He trained his students originally to fight other mutants who were acting out and making things difficult for the rest of them, not to be superheroes. There's something kind of cold about the idea of a wealthy man collecting poor people to attack their own class.

Cold and deeply cynical, especially if you count the later retcons, revisions, and revelations about his character and motivations. That said, it would play into the interpretation some have had of the X-Men as a kind of self-appointed elite more concerned with policing their own than with actually bettering conditions for mutants as a whole, given all the years they spent (or if you're feeling less charitable, wasted) appealing to (virtually nonexistent) human goodwill by policing more militant mutants that weren't so willing to play nice with their persecutors in the human race, especially those in positions of status and authority. Beyond that, this does show rather well that even the worst exemplars of humanity can still have valid points when it comes to the hypocrisy of those who would deem themselves "the good guys," albeit somewhat undercut by themselves being unrepentantly horrible excuses for people.

[WildR]

I love this series and I really hope it gets a follow-up. It’s a critique of Krakoa, but not the obtuse, “see those mutants got too uppity!” It shows how certain systems are inequitable by design and how those in power can easily abuse them.

I thought everyone on the island of in reality reading x-franchise should have realize it when QC allowed a bunch of sh*ty "criminals" (maybe except Kwannon only) formed an official team and let a racial-genocider lead it lol

[Grunty]

Once again the part about the obvious flaw of the "Make More Mutants" law remindeds to the Sol system in the manga Battle Angel Alita Last Order, where the knowledge of nano machines which can slow or stop aging (previously a luxury of a small elite) was relased to the public and then widely applied by almost everyone.

So with overpopulation on one hand and people growing uncomfortable with the idea of raising "unfinished people" who they have no direct need for anymore on the other, children became illegal in many societies and even treated as pests in others.

Ironicaly the war torn Mars is one of the few places where children are still appriciated.

This is where I might have an issue with the overall plot of this story. The entire QC voted on Sabretooth and yes, it was done as a warning example to anyone else deciding to blatantly break the laws it was still very contrived and stupid (one of Hickman's many early narrative missteps, imo) and if it was just Charles and Erik there at subsequent hearings and sentencings then the final judgment call should be invalid as we do not know the arguments put forward nor how the other QC members would have voted. It just seems like there's a wide gap in between how the QC as a 'judiciary' would/should respond based on what we've read in other books and the picture that LaValle has painted in this limited series.
I know the QC has generally acted in blatant self-interest since inception but those decisions mostly applied to themselves and immediate connections and interests. To consign Nekra and Co. to the pit for those reasons as Third Eye explained seems very...harsh and unnecessary.

The series certainly goes all in on trying to highlight just how badly designed and flawed the system has been ever since it's inception.
Which to a degree was bound to happen sooner or later, given how intentionaly badly defined and seemingly absolute the three laws were intendent to be by the writer.

Though perhaps we should wait until the last issue to see what actualy turns out to be true and what not.
Since the fundamental premise of this title is about an unhinged villain trapped in stasis while fully conscious, there is still a chance that the writer is merely presenting the fundmanetal flaws of the laws in a hypotetical scenario.

Still what ever everything about these events really happend or not, the series makes a good case for why the three laws need to be replaced either by new better thought out ones or by basic principles on which proper laws can be formed.
Especialy if they want the island nation of Krakoa to last as concept.

[mugiwara]

I don't think Marvel planed that timing, but wow... awesome timing or terrible timing here!

Because either Third Eye is lying, or editors actually agreed for a story portraying the QC and the Krakoa laws as a christian far right wet dream. Banning abortion? That's for those SCOTUS pussies! Let's rather banish contraception alltogether!
What's next? Outlawing homoseuality?

[BroHomo]

I
Let's rather banish contraception alltogether!

There's no condoms onKraKoa!
"Mutants can't get AIDS"

--Paige Guthrie

What's next? Outlawing homoseuality?

Queers can't have abortions
+
There's nO condoms on KraKoa!

[Devaishwarya]

Once again the part about the obvious flaw of the "Make More Mutants" law remindeds to the Sol system in the manga Battle Angel Alita Last Order, where the knowledge of nano machines which can slow or stop aging (previously a luxury of a small elite) was relased to the public and then widely applied by almost everyone.

So with overpopulation on one hand and people growing uncomfortable with the idea of raising "unfinished people" who they have no direct need for anymore on the other, children became illegal in many societies and even treated as pests in others.

Ironicaly the war torn Mars is one of the few places where children are still appriciated.



The series certainly goes all in on trying to highlight just how badly designed and flawed the system has been ever since it's inception.
Which to a degree was bound to happen sooner or later, given how intentionaly badly defined and seemingly absolute the three laws were intendent to be by the writer.

Though perhaps we should wait until the last issue to see what actualy turns out to be true and what not.
Since the fundamental premise of this title is about an unhinged villain trapped in stasis while fully conscious, there is still a chance that the writer is merely presenting the fundmanetal flaws of the laws in a hypotetical scenario.

Still what ever everything about these events really happend or not, the series makes a good case for why the three laws need to be replaced either by new better thought out ones or by basic principles on which proper laws can be formed.
Especialy if they want the island nation of Krakoa to last as concept.

Yupp. The Three Laws at first glance seemed too esoteric and Hickman needed a full data page each (at least) to really explain the concepts he was trying to put forward (surely there were more than three) but was clearly too caught up in the other million and one sub-plots (which ended up as a single-panel note in Inferno, because he had no time to develop them further) to focus on the most pertinent building blocks of Krakoa: Mutant Nation.
Such a vague presentation which left them open to a myriad of interpretations, did the theme no service, even now.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

The book is a rerailment for Sabretooth, allowing him to be more than just a dumb brute. It's also a good ensemble cast and an exploration of the prison system.

PS. I'd be into a Third Eye spinoff. Just pitch it as Easy Rawlins on Krakoa.

[Starfish]

I love this book and can only echo all the praise it gets. Who would have thought that Sabretooth would be one of the most interesting X-titles to come out? I really appreciate that LaValle doesn't beat around the bush when it comes to the flaws in Krakoa's government and judicial system (if it can even be called that).

To paraphrase a clever thing I once read, never judge laws by the best intentions of the lawmakers, but always by the ways they can potentially be abused. As the book points out, that's a serious issue even in the real world where jurisdiction is seemingly limited by checks and balances, which is something that Quiet Council lacks.
The Quiet Council answers only to itself, and even then only insofar as its members might be interested in or able to influence their peers. If I were to describe this form of government, I'd say it mostly resembles a quasi-feudal coalition of nobles who sometimes hold votes on how to rule over their subjects, who themselves are entirely at the mercy of their betters' whims.
And as we have seen, even having morally upstanding members on the Council doesn’t do anything to prevent others from simply going behind their backs to do as they please. That would be a recipe for disaster in any nation, but even more so on an island of super-powered immortals where an individual’s standing is often decided by their personal ability to overpower others.

I’m also glad LaValle hinted at there being a follow up to this story in the works, because it feels too important not to lead to further developments, which is something I was worried about initially, as it’s not one of the “main books”.

The data page revealing the reasons for the incarcerations is the juiciest part of this issue, with the development leading to Third Eye’s banishment to the pit feeling scarily topical.

And then there’s Madison and Danger’s forbidden love, which of course has me wonder about Doug and Warlock’s opinion on that matter. As Danger’s exes they’re hardly impartial, and I remember Warlock loosing his entire cool when it comes to Danger being with other guys. Considering his connection to the island, it’s hard not to suspect he might have something to do with Krakoa rejecting them.
Also, was the whole Council that exiled Danger, or the same small circle who sent the cast to the pit in the beginning? It’s an outrageous sentence for what seems like an easily fixed inconvenience either way, but it would seem especially harsh if it were just Charles, Erik, Doug, and Warlock who banished her, considering their close personal history. At the very least they could have allowed Madison to leave Krakoa with her, but condemning her lover to the Pit for an indeterminate amount of time while sending her away, without knowing if she’ll ever be reunited with her love, just seems excessively cruel.

On the upside, it opens up the possibility for a story featuring Danger and Madison as star-crossed lovers, and I’m so here for that.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I wouldn't mind this book crossing over with Legion of X. Kurt is trying to address similar topics to this book.

[Rift]

Yeah, I'm not buying Third Eye's perspective here. Sabretooth was told not to kill anyone. He didn't need to kill anyone. He did it because he's an ******* and has no remorse. He made it clear that he would do it all again if given the chance.

Eye getting thrown into the pit makes no sense. Even before the Make More Mutants Law was ratified, there's no way the vast Majority of the Quiet Council would comdemn him for giving out condoms and stuff. I'm hoping for a reveal that he's hiding some details, like Melter was.

Other than that, I'm disappointed that we're 4 issues in, and we only barely touched upon half the cast's crimes. I was also hoping the rebellion would finally start, but I guess we are waiting 'till the end. The art looks off to me too, but that could be because it's been a while between issues, and I forgot what the art style was like.

[Saithor]

Yeah, I'm not buying Third Eye's perspective here. Sabretooth was told not to kill anyone. He didn't need to kill anyone. He did it because he's an ******* and has no remorse. He made it clear that he would do it all again if given the chance.

Eye getting thrown into the pit makes no sense. Even before the Make More Mutants Law was ratified, there's no way the vast Majority of the Quiet Council would comdemn him for giving out condoms and stuff. I'm hoping for a reveal that he's hiding some details, like Melter was.

Other than that, I'm disappointed that we're 4 issues in, and we only barely touched upon half the cast's crimes. I was also hoping the rebellion would finally start, but I guess we are waiting 'till the end. The art looks off to me too, but that could be because it's been a while between issues, and I forgot what the art style was like.

Third Eye’s data sheet appears to be an internal monologue so I’m not sure why he would be lying about what’s happening on there? People have estabilished only Charles and Erik were around for the sentencing as well

[Rift]

I didn't say that he was lying, only that his perspective is wrong. At the very least, he's wrong about Sabretooth. And I don't think even Xavier or Magneto (at least Magneto) would force pregnancies upon their people. Especially since they could just Gate to a convenience store and by condoms literally whenever they want.

[Kingdom X]

Yeah, I'm not buying Third Eye's perspective here. Sabretooth was told not to kill anyone. He didn't need to kill anyone. He did it because he's an ******* and has no remorse. He made it clear that he would do it all again if given the chance.

Eye getting thrown into the pit makes no sense. Even before the Make More Mutants Law was ratified, there's no way the vast Majority of the Quiet Council would comdemn him for giving out condoms and stuff. I'm hoping for a reveal that he's hiding some details, like Melter was.

Other than that, I'm disappointed that we're 4 issues in, and we only barely touched upon half the cast's crimes. I was also hoping the rebellion would finally start, but I guess we are waiting 'till the end. The art looks off to me too, but that could be because it's been a while between issues, and I forgot what the art style was like.

Charles and Erik were acting as sole judge and jury when the rest of the group got sentenced.

Regarding the Sabretooth sentencing, I think two things can be true at once. Yes Victor is a murderous *******, but he was still being used as Guinea pig for Krakoa’s new laws. In the same way that Omega Red has gotten a million and one chances in the Percy books, they could have given Victor a chance after the laws were actually made. They didn’t because they wanted to use him as an example and as a warning to the people of Krakoa. It’s complex because the QC didn’t necessarily make the wrong decision imprisoning Victor, but it certainly was a hypocritical one.

Edit: see that you already responded to the Charles and Erik bit. Charles and Erik aren’t directly blocking contraceptives but I can certainly see them wanting to control the narrative of Make More Mutants.

[Saithor]

I didn't say that he was lying, only that his perspective is wrong. At the very least, he's wrong about Sabretooth. And I don't think even Xavier or Magneto (at least Magneto) would force pregnancies upon their people. Especially since they could just Gate to a convenience store and by condoms literally whenever they want.

I don’t know, trying to end this series with “Actually they all were put in the Pit for very good reasons and they deserved to be there.” Feels antithetical to everything the writer has been working towards if that ends up being the big reveal.

Also we do know at least one council member was upset over the ideas of contraceptives before Stacey X literally had to show them the unintended consequences.

[BroHomo]

3rd eye was forcing himself into the minds of others and forcing them to do something they didn't want to do (ie smash)