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  1. #16
    Mighty Member Mercwmouth12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    A) Does he? Does he really? Lol

    B) Regardless, Jean and Scott raised Cable in The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix.

    C) Abandonment is still abandonment. In real life moving kids from caregiver to caregiver can cause psychological damage and abandonment issues (I have friends who work with foster kids). It shouldn’t be a plot point in a Spider-book at all.

    But hopefully the kids are just a fake out and not an avenue to purposefully destroy MJ’s character and/or write her out by giving her a cliched, sexist “happy ending” raising kids with her new partner.
    They can't write her out and you're reaching. The kids angle won't one to stick. There are either clones, LMD's or something else that will be just a wiki blurb in the future

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    But hopefully the kids are just a fake out and not an avenue to purposefully destroy MJ’s character and/or write her out by giving her a cliched, sexist “happy ending” raising kids with her new partner.
    MJ's story is not going to end with Paul and the kids. It might be another excuse for a long-term hiatus, but all it takes is a different writer to turn her family life into a living hell that she needs to overcome and return to Peter for his help.

    And, I'm sorry, but why shouldn't we be telling this story in a Spider-Man book? How can the books and characters grow and evolve if we're afraid to tackle delicate issues? I'd hate to see how you'd react to Kirsty's eating disorder, MJ's smoking, or Harry's drug problems in current year. Yikes.
    Last edited by Matt Rat; 07-01-2022 at 07:54 AM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercwmouth12 View Post
    They can't write her out and you're reaching. The kids angle won't one to stick. There are either clones, LMD's or something else that will be just a wiki blurb in the future
    How is it reaching to discuss real life implications as well as a story (MJ is happily raising kids with a new partner; MJ is acting as the children’s primary caregiver)) they are already telling on page? Especially when I end acknowledging this could be a fake out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    MJ's story is not going to end with Paul and the kids. It might be another excuse for a long-term hiatus, but all it takes is a different writer to turn her family life into a living hell that she needs to overcome and return to Peter for his help.

    And, I'm sorry, but why shouldn't we be telling this story in a Spider-Man book? How can the books and characters grow and evolve if we're afraid to tackle delicate issues? I'd hate to see how you'd react to Kirsty's eating disorder, MJ's smoking, or Harry's drug problems in current year. Yikes.
    Mary Jane abandoning children makes her a villain.
    Last edited by TinkerSpider; 07-01-2022 at 08:30 AM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    Look, I get that you are apparently personally invested in Mary Jane and don’t like reading scenarios in which the character is handled less than optimally but how is it reaching to discuss real life implications as well as a story (MJ is happily raising kids with a new partner; MJ is acting as the children’s primary caregiver)) they are already telling on page?
    He said you were reaching because you seem to think if this isn't a fake out, then that'll be it for MJ as they'll have written her into a problematic corner with the kids, and thus will send her off into the sunset with them rather than have her 'traumatise' them. He, and I, are saying there will be people who are interested in using MJ again and they may not want her new family around, they may want her to be with Peter again, so yes, if they have to, MJ will inevitably have to leave the kids behind, either because their actual mother shows up or they are put in foster care because their dad's abusive and she can't afford to keep them as caregiver.

    There are so many ways to disassociate MJ from Paul's family other than silly retcons and you are not hearing any of them out because you're too invested in how the kids will react to 'trauma'...like, who cares about the kids? Like Merc says, they're just a Wiki article at the end of the day. This is Peter and MJ's story, not theirs.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    He said you were reaching because you seem to think if this isn't a fake out, then that'll be it for MJ as they'll have written her into a problematic corner with the kids, and thus will send her off into the sunset with them rather than have her 'traumatise' them. He, and I, are saying there will be people who are interested in using MJ again and they may not want her new family around, they may want her to be with Peter again, so yes, if they have to, MJ will inevitably have to leave the kids behind, either because their actual mother shows up or they are put in foster care because their dad's abusive and she can't afford to keep them as caregiver.

    There are so many ways to disassociate MJ from Paul's family other than silly retcons and you are not hearing any of them out because you're too invested in how the kids will react to 'trauma'...like, who cares about the kids? Like Merc says, they're just a Wiki article at the end of the day. This is Peter and MJ's story, not theirs.
    All stories need verisimilitude, otherwise they are nonsense. It’s not “invested” to be aware of how human beings react to situations; that’s what makes characters realistic, relatable and understandable. They HAVE written MJ into a corner if this storyline is being played straight. If you think putting kids in foster care would make MJ a sympathetic character and not a despicable villain, well, then, there’s no way to answer that politely.

    Also Dan Slott is back. And his book will tie into Wells’s.

    So all of you so incredibly sure Marvel is hell bent on restoring MJ and Peter as a couple…you can keep your optimism but I’d rather prepare for disappointment than constantly insist everyone else must also be happy clappy all the time.
    Last edited by TinkerSpider; 07-01-2022 at 01:16 PM.

  6. #21
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    ...That healing factor cannot be praised enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    ...like, who cares about the kids?
    There are ways to write this off without making MJ look indifferent but I'd care what happens to them? Readers judge characters on how they treat other people who are not the protagonist and how an adult treats a kid character has more emotional weight than other adults.

  7. #22
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    What happened to White Rabbit with the Syndicate?

    Are we expecting things to turnaround with the new Goblin tech upgrade?

    At least Felicia cares but I feel like this is just going to end up making Peter feel worse.

  8. #23
    Mighty Member Mercwmouth12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    What happened to White Rabbit with the Syndicate?

    Are we expecting things to turnaround with the new Goblin tech upgrade?

    At least Felicia cares but I feel like this is just going to end up making Peter feel worse.
    But isn't it the point to confront his issues so he overcome and then fix them?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    What happened to White Rabbit with the Syndicate?

    Are we expecting things to turnaround with the new Goblin tech upgrade?

    At least Felicia cares but I feel like this is just going to end up making Peter feel worse.
    I have a feeling Felicia is going to say something like, "I know it hurts but you need to snap out of it, Mary Jane has moved on so you need to move on as well, pull yourself together man" - and with that pep talk, Peter dusts himself off and gets some sort of revenge on Tombstone per the cover (if it's not lying too much), but the SuperAdaptoid is right around the corner (maybe tied into the "debt collector?") so he can't savor the victory and ultimately, after a pyrhhic victory of some sort in 900, that leads him to work with Norman Osborn and use the Spider-Goblin armor.

    So yes, I'm expecting Peter to be more competent with the Spider-Goblin armor but the mere fact that he's working with Norman just feels so incredibly wrong - yet it looks like it's going to be the status quo spoilers:
    at least through October if not beyond since the recent article made mention that Peter and Norman's work relationship will be part of Slott's new series.
    end of spoilers

    As for the White Rabbit, she was loading Electro's costume along with Mysterio's into a truck in a previous episode - it could be an old costume of Max's, but if it's Francine's...hmm. Janice seems to be in the book just to misdirect the reader re: Tombstone's motives, so who knows if the Syndicate will be show up.

    I really doubt we see much movement on the MJ plot until the Hellfire Gala tie-in issue. But hopefully I'm wrong.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    Mary Jane abandoning children makes her a villain.
    Logically, MJ's been a 'villain' since she struck the deal with Mephisto and persuaded Peter to go along with it. People of course still support her and put all that blame on Peter.

    If she has no choice, it doesn't make her anything other than a human being that makes mistakes. Modern comic books aren't black and white. If you want to abandon or lose faith in MJ because she'll be inevitably unshackled from the kids (and she will, you can't deny that) that's your choice.

    I have every confidence it will be done in a way that will limit damage to MJ's character, but it is going to happen. Her current status quo with the kids is not permanent and clearly isn't designed to be. Fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunala View Post
    There are ways to write this off without making MJ look indifferent but I'd care what happens to them? Readers judge characters on how they treat other people who are not the protagonist and how an adult treats a kid character has more emotional weight than other adults.
    If the kids true mother shows up and MJ gets involved in a custody battle, then yeah, I can see you caring about them, but they're really just a means to an end if they're not going to be taken care of by her and Peter, and will eventually go away.
    Last edited by Matt Rat; 07-01-2022 at 09:17 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunala View Post

    There are ways to write this off without making MJ look indifferent but I'd care what happens to them? Readers judge characters on how they treat other people who are not the protagonist and how an adult treats a kid character has more emotional weight than other adults.
    Precisely!

    There’s a very good reason why they say never to put kids or pets in a film or a story (unless their fate is a major plot point). Kids and pets can’t control their own destinies; they’re dependent on adults for care. Therefore, kids and pets will pull the audience’s focus and the audience will worry about their well-being unless care is taken to depict they’re okay. Wells/JRJR even did this by including a panel letting the reader know Tombstone’s cat was okay after the explosion.

  12. #27
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    Just so we're clear.

    Nobody is saying we shouldn't care about the kids in the book when they are a part of it.
    We're saying nobody should care about the kids being a permanent responsibility for MJ.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    Just so we're clear.

    Nobody is saying we shouldn't care about the kids in the book when they are a part of it.
    We're saying nobody should care about the kids being a permanent responsibility for MJ.
    No one ever said anything about permanency. The issue is how to get MJ out of being with the children without damaging the character, because she has apparently willingly accepted a heavy responsibility for two dependent children’s physical and emotional welfare, a responsibility just as important as Peter’s responsibility in many respects.

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    For all we know the guy and the kids are actually some tool by Mephisto just to keep messing with Peter and make sure he doesn't have kids, or maybe not and they are real and this all leads to the final nail in the coffin of Peter/MJ, there is just to many unknown factors as it is in this run and too little information to go on to determine what the endgame will be.

  15. #30
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    Over at DC, they've also split Bruce and Selina up, with Selina now sleeping with someone else, but right from the page that establishes the separation, you get the sense Selina and Bruce still love each other and they still keep in touch. Selina will also have a back-up story in the core Batman book alongside her solo title so we'll get more from her perspective. I wish MJ had a back-up strip or another ongoing so we can have better insight into her own mindset.

    I also trust Zdarsky with Bat/Cat and that he will eventually build to them getting back together, probably if he outlasts Tini Howard's Catwoman run. Right now they're sharing her.

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