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  1. #61
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    They really donít want me as a Spider-Man reader anymore do they?

    I only came back from a 18 year hiatus of not reading Spider-Man because I heard Spencer had gotten Peter and Mary Jane back together. I was hoping to try and sit out Wells run on ASM in the case that whoever took over would do my favorite character (Mary Jane) justice, but theyíre bringing back Slott on a ongoing satellite Spider-Man book? I fear what these two together will do to her and I canít handle that.

  2. #62
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoth82 View Post
    They really don’t want me as a Spider-Man reader anymore do they?

    I only came back from a 18 year hiatus of not reading Spider-Man because I heard Spencer had gotten Peter and Mary Jane back together. I was hoping to try and sit out Wells run on ASM in the case that whoever took over would do my favorite character (Mary Jane) justice, but they’re bringing back Slott on a ongoing satellite Spider-Man book? I fear what these two together will do to her and I can’t handle that.
    Honestly, this may become more and more like Brand New Day, we have two of its writers back after all...
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  3. #63
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    That answer's pretty simple. They just didn't view it that way. This is a relatively recent argument, moreso when Superior Spider-Man #2 was printed.
    Then how the heck where they viewing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    The entire "rape by deception" argument has some unsettling implications for superhero comics, where the characters often keep big secrets.
    With all due respect, that is a false equivalence. Not telling someone about a certain aspect of your life (like work involving professional confidentiality, trade secrets, etc.) is not the same thing as creating a false identity to deceive and take advantage of people. In any event, it's not an argument to say that Doc maintaining a false identity to have a sexual relationship with Anna Marconi without her knowing who he really was is rape by deception; that's the literal definition of it.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  4. #64
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Recent satellite books have flopped, so even going with a new title is a risk.

    They're going with Slott because they like him. This may be a rare opportunity to launch a satellite book that readers think matters, which would be helpful to new writers a few years down the line.
    Yeah I get that, I just wish we got some new blood in the Spidey books. I feel like other than Spencer the same 5 names have been on the various Spidey books for the last two decades.

  5. #65
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    So here's where I think things stand with Slott prior to this book launching

    -His short story for ASM#900 will probably be an End of Spider-Verse prequel or set up for this book

    -His short story for AF#1000 will either be his 'itch to scratch' on Peter and MJ so he needn't be concerned with it in this book, or that too is something he's setting up to address in the future at some point and to give the two a long-term 'road map' for Wells to follow.

  6. #66
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    The state of Spider-Man since Nick Spencer left The Amazing Spider-Man: Beyond was terrible, Vol. 6 is awful by Zeb Wells and now Dan Slott's back. Bad enough but made worse for Spidey's 60th anniversary.

  7. #67
    Astonishing Member Uncanny X-Man's Avatar
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    I'm VERY excited about this. As a big fan of Slott's run on Amazing Spider-Man, any Slott Spidey is a must-buy for me. And Mark Bagley is the icing on the cake. Overall, with Slott/Bagley on Spider-Man and Wells/Romita Jr/Gleason on Amazing, as a Spidey fan I'm in a very happy place.

  8. #68
    Spectacular Member Kanos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    -His short story for AF#1000 will either be his 'itch to scratch' on Peter and MJ so he needn't be concerned with it in this book, or that too is something he's setting up to address in the future at some point and to give the two a long-term 'road map' for Wells to follow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Batman Begins 2005 View Post
    The state of Spider-Man since Nick Spencer left The Amazing Spider-Man: Beyond was terrible, Vol. 6 is awful by Zeb Wells and now Dan Slott's back. Bad enough but made worse for Spidey's 60th anniversary.
    I hope Dan read Nick Spencer's run and understand what the fans need.

    I also don't understand Slott's run fans. He came up with interesting concepts, but he had terrible Peter and Mary Janes. Maybe these people just like Spider-Man and not Peter Parker. It's moments like this that make me love Spencer's first arc even more, which had a meta comment about Peter and Spider.
    Last edited by Conn Seanery; 07-02-2022 at 07:27 PM.

  9. #69
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    Cool, I'm in. I REALLY hope Bagley picks up his game from recent outings.

    [edit]...just seen that this has descended into "you can't like Slott and be a real Spider-man fan." Grow the hell up.
    Last edited by Conn Seanery; 07-02-2022 at 07:29 PM.
    Theorising that it could travel within its own timeline, DC stepped into the Crisis accelerator and vanished. DC awoke to find itself trapped in the past, facing mirror images that were not its own, and driven by editorial to change history *for the better* *to be more cohesive* *Silver Age nostalgia* *for the sake of it*. And so DC finds itself leaping from Crisis to Crisis, striving to put right what once went wrong, and hoping each time that the next leap will be to a perfect DC UniverseÖ

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by exile001 View Post
    Grow the hell up.
    If you like Slott, you're still a fan of the character. I just want to understand what you see in him that I don't.
    Last edited by Matt Rat; 07-02-2022 at 05:20 AM.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanos View Post
    I hope Dan read Nick Spencer's run and understand what the fans need.
    Regrettably I don't think Dan will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanos View Post
    I also don't understand Slott's run fans. He came up with interesting concepts, but he had terrible Peter and Mary Janes. Maybe these people just like Spider-Man and not Peter Parker. It's moments like this that make me love Spencer's first arc even more, which had a meta comment about Peter and Spider.
    I thought that opening arc was Nick Spencer's best Spider-Man story from his run. I was also find of the Black Cat and the Return of the Green Goblin stories as well. I really liked Nick Spencer's TASM for the most part.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman Begins 2005 View Post
    RI thought that opening arc was Nick Spencer's best Spider-Man story from his run. I was also find of the Black Cat and the Return of the Green Goblin stories as well. I really liked Nick Spencer's TASM for the most part.
    Spencer's run was the true final chapter of the firsr BND era and is actually a great jumping off point for the franchise. Maybe Marvel got scared that it worked a little too well.

  13. #73
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman Begins 2005 View Post
    Spider-Man is 60 this year and so far, he's having a shit birthday. The 50th wasn't good either but looks good when compared to the 60th. The 40th anniversary was great thanks to Joseph Michael Straczynski on The Amazing Spider-Man and Spidey making his big screen debut. I have no interest whatsoever in this. Slott is very hit and miss on Spider-Man. Superior Spider-Man, he should have gone out on. Only thing I liked from Dan post TSSM was the Renee Your Vows miniseries.
    At least 50 years had him be the first to cross over with the Ultimate Universe, gave him a solo issue of AvX and gave him Ends of the Earth (I think). Spider-Man ate good for his 50th. So far 60th has been a bust that feels more like itís there to kick him repeatedly rather than celebrate him.

  14. #74
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    Spencer's run was the true final chapter of the first BND era and is actually a great jumping off point for the franchise. Maybe Marvel got scared that it worked a little too well.
    Seriously from JMS' run to Spencer's can be read a single continuous story which is kinda wild

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    That and even if the execution is alright, his "plot over character" mentality gets on the way.

    It's annoying how he changes a character's personality to make a specific plot work, instead of putting a character in that situation and thinking about how they'd react, MJ is a victim of this given how her opinion on Spidey changes at random, but she's far from the only one.
    This cannot be stated enough. Slott can't write characters. He writes action figures he twists into place to suit his plot, then when the plot is over he picks up the action figures and moves them to the next playset without any care for believable human reaction, much less an in character one.

    He writes cartoons, not characters. Although Wile E Coyote has more innate humanity than most of Slott's hollow action figures.

    Honestly the habit of writing for trade and make a bunch of stories where most of the pages are wasted on nothing is so annoying.

    I mean shit, I knew ASM#1 vol 6 would probably be of questionable quality the moment I saw this:

    Miss me with this bullshit.
    I agree. The monthly reader has paid good money for those pages to contain story and this is cheating them out of value for their entertainment dollar. If the writer has a story that works better in trade, then put it out in trade and stop jerking around monthly readers.

    The "relatable" shit is always about keeping his relatable to people on the younger side, while being controlled by people who don't know what youth means.

    Ultimately it's just excuses to keep him static and safe (Well, what they consider safe) for, reasons.

    Comic books are ultimately a business, and business doesn't like risks, and people who work in business can also be really bad at it, if what Marvel and DC can pull at times is any hint.
    THIS! "Spider-Man is about youth" is such an obvious, transparent canard. If Spider-Man is about youth, then why are they hiring the same old, same old middle-aged writers? Just admit "Spider-Man is about regressive nostalgia belonging to a specific type of older men yearning to recapture their long past youth" and move on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Clearly, "Chosen One" means "The one chosen to be sidelined" .
    Wells is already doing that by making Tombstone the star of ASM, with Peter playing his straight man patsy

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Honestly, this may become more and more like Brand New Day, we have two of its writers back after all...
    You mean Long Past Its Expiration Day


    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    That answer's pretty simple. They just didn't view it that way. This is a relatively recent argument, moreso when Superior Spider-Man #2 was printed.

    The entire "rape by deception" argument has some unsettling implications for superhero comics, where the characters often keep big secrets.
    Rape by deception has been part of Western culture since at least Greek myth and Zeus kept shapeshifting to have sex with all sorts of unknowing women. Zeus's actions are not framed as morally correct for modern audiences nor should they be.

    Otto's deception meant Anna Maria and Mary Jane could not make full, knowing and active consent to sexual activity. The only unsettling implication would be if sex without active, knowing consent is considered to be something a morally upstanding hero can and should engage in without consequently breaking their character.

    Having sex or attempting to have sex while pretending to be a competely different person is an act of villainy (like it was for Zeus). And Otto is a villain - but Otto's actions were not framed as being problematic and villainous (with Peter even admiring that Otto had the will power Peter didn't have to resist Mary Jane which is just so...wrong and ick on so many levels, and Anna Maria admiring Otto for not using Peter's body to sleep with supermodels and black cats). That's a good part of why Superior is so problematic.

    And we could also talk about how Otto violated Peter's and Mary Jane's privacy - or how Otto used Peter's body without his consent, which could also be construed as a form of rape - but the only reaction Peter had was "Otto was a jerk" which is another reason why Superior is so problematic. The issues aren't addressed and the villain goes unpunished with his major transgressions against another human being's agency waved off as "jerkiness."
    Last edited by TinkerSpider; 07-02-2022 at 09:19 AM.

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