New Spider-Man satellite title by Slott and Bagley

[Lee]

He is really hyping that Peter/MJ story...

How do you mean? He said he pitched the story, the editor liked it and accepted the pitch.

[NC_Yankee]

We've gone over the Anna Maria thing, I understand not wanting to jump into complicated arguments, but the fact stands Otto faced no repercussions from his actions in that relationship nor was it depicted as even slightly messed up; quite the opposite in fact, since Slott implied Otto was less shallow than Peter because he didn't care about looks (he certainly cared about Peter's looks enough to use them though).

Those examples aren't accurate analogies since they don't involve identity theft, nor is the lie the characters are telling a way to advance their relationship.

Of course, going from that to "if a reader likes Slott they support rape" is ridiculous, and I for one would never make such a claim.

I am one who will never claim that to like Slott means you support rape. My problem is why is Slott getting another Peter book when Marvel knows Slott is a “Lightening Rod” for those who dislike him? I do not understand their thinking in the least.

[Matt Rat]

How do you mean?.

Calling it "THAT" Story. He could have just worded "I pitched the AF story" rather casually but he's emphasising it's a big deal

[TinkerSpider]

There's a distinction between saying that something is morally correct, and categorizing something as rape, with the legal and moral weight of that description.

Rape refers to sexual congress without consent. Sexual assualt - which Otto perpetrated on MJ - is nonconsensual sexual contact.

There are far more legal nuances, but those are the basics.

Morally correct behavior is to, y'know, not engage in rape or sexual assault.

Not all morally correct behavior consists of not raping someone, but not raping someone is always morally correct.

Clearer?

I don't think this is a thread that fans want to pull. If Superman has a romance with someone who doesn't know he's an alien, is that rape by deception? Was Peter Parker in danger of committing rape by deception when Gwen Stacy blamed Spider-Man for the death of her father?

Your examples don't seem logical to me. How is Spider-Man raping Gwen in your example? Where is the sexual congress? If someone consents to sex with Clark Kent but doesn't know he is also Superman, they are still having sex with Clark Kent. They may be upset when Clark reveals he is also a superhero, but they still slept with Clark. But if they consented to have sex with the actual Clark Kent, with all of Clark Kent's history, with all of Clark Kent's known traits -- but it turned out to be Lex Luthor, with all of Lex Luthor's history, with all of Lex Luthor's traits, pretending to be Clark Kent, then they did NOT consent to having sex with Lex Luthor. That's rape by deception.

I also find it...not exactly awesome...to have people defend sexual touching without consent in the 21st century. C'mon, people, we're hopefully more evolved than that.

[Jman27]

On Twitter, Dan Slott explained that he pitched this book to Marvel.



So this is a book that only exists because he wants to do it, not because Marvel was ready to offer a new monthly title to a promising young writer from Lumberjanes or something.

he wants to write spider-man he gets to write spider-man. is that saying not many current writers actually want to write Spider-man?

[Lee]

Calling it "THAT" Story. He could have just worded "I pitched the AF story" rather casually but he's emphasising it's a big deal

In the context he's using it, it's to emphasise the point. He's saying that he's writing that story because that's the story that he pitched. Marvel didn't give that story to him. He pitched it to Marvel.

There was a lot of complaining about that on this very forum. "Why did Marvel GIVE HIM the Peter/MJ story?". They didn't. He pitched it, Marvel liked it, Marvel accepted the pitch.

[KC]

Great to have Slott on a main Spider-Man book again. He is my favorite Spider-Man writer and his solo run was hands down one of the best the character has had in my opinion.

I have not been a fan of Wells' run so far but this is good news.

[Matt Rat]

I asked Marvel's EIC if I could have a meeting to pitch a project. I pitched an approach for *how* to do an additional title.

This bit is interesting. I have a suspicion Slott wants this to be the equivalent of how important DeMatties' Spectacular Spider-Man was back i the 90s, where the 'B' book had storylines that were more crucial than those in ASM at the time.

[Malachi]

he wants to write spider-man he gets to write spider-man. is that saying not many current writers actually want to write Spider-man?

Zdarsky said something similar. That with Marvels stance on some issues and fans expectations and stance on the same issues there where no way he could deliver something good. So instead of putting himself through that he just rather write other stuff. Slott of course doesn't care about if fans complain and he more then anyone is familiar with what Marvel wants. So that shouldn't be an issue for him.

ASM has become a quagmire and it shows. There are thousands of possible stories to tell but the most obvious ones are closed off. As long as this continues questions will be raised and expecations will linger like a odour over the title.

[Ursalink]

This is just a theory, but I believe that, at the end of the arc, several Spiders could end up trapped on Earth-616 and get things complicated for Peter... Or maybe easier.

You see, I can't avoid to think about some of those spiders trapped on Earth-616 might be MC2's Mayday and RYV's Annie. Based on Mephisto's vision, this could suit for his reign being defeated just like he saw. And maybe the presence of these two could help to restore the Spider-Marriage on Earth-616. Don't you think?

[Kanos]

This is just a theory, but I believe that, at the end of the arc, several Spiders could end up trapped on Earth-616 and get things complicated for Peter... Or maybe easier.

You see, I can't avoid to think about some of those spiders trapped on Earth-616 might be MC2's Mayday and RYV's Annie. Based on Mephisto's vision, this could suit for his reign being defeated just like he saw. And maybe the presence of these two could help to restore the Spider-Marriage on Earth-616. Don't you think?

If Mayday/Annie from another universe defeats Mephisto, how will that get the marriage back? Marvel can do this to not return the marriage since Mephisto has already been defeated. It must be the daughter from Earth-616. If Peter and MJ don't get married, the apocalypse will begin on Earth-616, I want this to remain canon. Only Peter and Mary Jane's daughter can save the future.

[Lukmendes]

At least 50 years had him be the first to cross over with the Ultimate Universe, gave him a solo issue of AvX and gave him Ends of the Earth (I think). Spider-Man ate good for his 50th. So far 60th has been a bust that feels more like it’s there to kick him repeatedly rather than celebrate him.

Ends of the Earth came out a few months before Alpha's debut, and ended two months before, I guess it kinda counts? Though AvX#9 was published on the same month as ASM#692.

This cannot be stated enough. Slott can't write characters. He writes action figures he twists into place to suit his plot, then when the plot is over he picks up the action figures and moves them to the next playset without any care for believable human reaction, much less an in character one.

He writes cartoons, not characters. Although Wile E Coyote has more innate humanity than most of Slott's hollow action figures.

The most frustrating thing is, there is some potential there for character writing.

Back in Big Time, there's a moment where Spidey just got the job in Horizon Labs and he has no idea what to do, which's something that can happen with someone who just got a job.

There's also the idea of "no one dies", which does seem like a sincere attempt at Spidey trying harder to save everyone.

MJ benefited from Spider-Island decently enough.

Even if Slott's method is "try a random gimmick for the character", sometimes those random gimmicks can be interesting and even fitting, and while his writing can fall short, the attempt at doing something fitting is something to keep in mind and maybe praise him for it.

Problem is when his idea is a gimmick for the sake of being a gimmick, and if a character can't work for it, they're changed for it to "work", and that's a problem if you look at his run and wonder "Okay, why did this just happen?".

I agree. The monthly reader has paid good money for those pages to contain story and this is cheating them out of value for their entertainment dollar. If the writer has a story that works better in trade, then put it out in trade and stop jerking around monthly readers.

That or at least introduce self contained B-plots to at least have more content, at least it gives more characters stuff to do, while there's an ongoing plot for trade as well.

THIS! "Spider-Man is about youth" is such an obvious, transparent canard. If Spider-Man is about youth, then why are they hiring the same old, same old middle-aged writers? Just admit "Spider-Man is about regressive nostalgia belonging to a specific type of older men yearning to recapture their long past youth" and move on.

Can't wait for 'em to call another one of this specific group you mentioned, like Mark Waid .

Wells is already doing that by making Tombstone the star of ASM, with Peter playing his straight man patsy :P

Man, months ago someone pointed out that Wells is better writing morally grey characters, and I suggested that he'd be better off writing another volume of Superior Foes, if Tombstone is basically the star of the comic, then man, guess I was right...

You mean Long Past Its Expiration Day :P

That implies it wasn't rotten the moment it was published .

Rape by deception has been part of Western culture since at least Greek myth and Zeus kept shapeshifting to have sex with all sorts of unknowing women. Zeus's actions are not framed as morally correct for modern audiences nor should they be.

Back then Zeus' **** was seen as just him being a cute pervert, though worth keeping in mind that there were people who didn't like Greek Gods 'cause they were jerks, so uh, yeah.

Otto's deception meant Anna Maria and Mary Jane could not make full, knowing and active consent to sexual activity. The only unsettling implication would be if sex without active, knowing consent is considered to be something a morally upstanding hero can and should engage in without consequently breaking their character.

Having sex or attempting to have sex while pretending to be a competely different person is an act of villainy (like it was for Zeus). And Otto is a villain - but Otto's actions were not framed as being problematic and villainous (with Peter even admiring that Otto had the will power Peter didn't have to resist Mary Jane which is just so...wrong and ick on so many levels, and Anna Maria admiring Otto for not using Peter's body to sleep with supermodels and black cats). That's a good part of why Superior is so problematic.

And we could also talk about how Otto violated Peter's and Mary Jane's privacy - or how Otto used Peter's body without his consent, which could also be construed as a form of rape - but the only reaction Peter had was "Otto was a jerk" which is another reason why Superior is so problematic. The issues aren't addressed and the villain goes unpunished with his major transgressions against another human being's agency waved off as "jerkiness."

(ASM#1 vol 3)

"Otto stole my body, tried to kill me, tried to **** my ex-girlfriend while impersonating me, masturbated on my body, killed people, almost ruined my relationship with my family... But he made my 200 year old aunt stop limping, so he's the best!"

Nice writing.

So how long until Otto shows up and becomes the true main character of the book again :P?

Isn't Otto kidnapped by some villain in ASM? Or was that plot solved?

I'm very okay with Slott returning to Spider-Man, I'm hoping we get Big Time Slott and not Post Superior Slott.
And with Bagley on art, it's a comic I'm intending to pick up.

Hopefully with Slott not running the show and instead doing the side story to someone else's work, he can do much better work. As it's a side title, it's not going to be the comic that effects Spider-Man history forever, instead it'll merely respond to the current events while telling its own story.

Yeah, Slott works better when he doesn't have too much free reign, so this could make it more interesting, or at least, suck less.

There's a distinction between saying that something is morally correct, and categorizing something as rape, with the legal and moral weight of that description.

We're talking about a terrorist who tried to kill the planet, but apparently "rape by deception" is too much to describe him as that? Really man?

What he tried on MJ is definitely an attempt at rape by deception, with Anna Maria it's less bad because she didn't personally know Peter, but he was still stealing somneone else's corpse to try to pretend he's not Otto and is instead, someone who's not a monster, someone who Anna Maria wouldn't want to be with, so yeah, "less bad" still means "Ayo what the ****", and I don't see how that is not rape by deception.

I don't think this is a thread that fans want to pull. If Superman has a romance with someone who doesn't know he's an alien, is that rape by deception? Was Peter Parker in danger of committing rape by deception when Gwen Stacy blamed Spider-Man for the death of her father?

Those are at worst, really shitty, with Gwen in particular would be really pissed if she found out to be the case, but rape by deception is pretending to be another person entirely.

If I'm willing to have sex with person A, and I have sex with who I think is person A, but is actually person B, who I wouldn't want to get near, then yeah, person B raped me by deception.

I dunno how what Otto did can be described as anything but that.

This is just a theory, but I believe that, at the end of the arc, several Spiders could end up trapped on Earth-616 and get things complicated for Peter... Or maybe easier.

You see, I can't avoid to think about some of those spiders trapped on Earth-616 might be MC2's Mayday and RYV's Annie. Based on Mephisto's vision, this could suit for his reign being defeated just like he saw. And maybe the presence of these two could help to restore the Spider-Marriage on Earth-616. Don't you think?

That ignores how the heroes Mephisto defeated are from a time skip given how they all look different, unless the entirety of MC2/RYV is kicked into 616.

Marvel could ignore all of this to have Mayday or Anya from alternate timelines kicking Mephisto's ass (somehow), but I don't see how that would mean anything, since it's another universe's version of Spidey and MJ getting married and having kids who made the important offspring, and that their 616 counterparts don't have to do it.

[Ursalink]

That ignores how the heroes Mephisto defeated are from a time skip given how they all look different, unless the entirety of MC2/RYV is kicked into 616.

Marvel could ignore all of this to have Mayday or Anya from alternate timelines kicking Mephisto's ass (somehow), but I don't see how that would mean anything, since it's another universe's version of Spidey and MJ getting married and having kids who made the important offspring, and that their 616 counterparts don't have to do it.

Well, I'm not entirely sure, but what about if the Peter and MJ from these realities MERGE with their counterparts? I mean, it wouldn't be the first time we see counterparts of several realities being merge into one. I think it happened with the original "Heroes Reborn" or something.

Besides, there's still that strange scene back during Parker Industries where Peter and MJ fought the Regent and suddenly, they have a "Deja Vu" from their counterparts in RYV. Why did they have such thing? No idea, but it can't be a coincidence.

[Lukmendes]

Well, I'm not entirely sure, but what about if the Peter and MJ from these realities MERGE with their counterparts? I mean, it wouldn't be the first time we see counterparts of several realities being merge into one. I think it happened with the original "Heroes Reborn" or something.

Heroes Reborn had the heroes kicked into that other reality, and then they were kicked back to 616.

And I really doubt Marvel would merge the entirety of MC2/RYV with 616 just to have Spidey have a daughter who's almost an adult, it'd mess with everyone else's status quo too.

Besides, there's still that strange scene back during Parker Industries where Peter and MJ fought the Regent and suddenly, they have a "Deja Vu" from their counterparts in RYV. Why did they have such thing? No idea, but it can't be a coincidence.

Whatever that was, unlikely to be followed up at this point, since Slott ain't the ASM writer anymore, and he quietly dropped this plot point in the same arc he introduced it, so uh, yeah...

[Ursalink]

Heroes Reborn had the heroes kicked into that other reality, and then they were kicked back to 616.

And I really doubt Marvel would merge the entirety of MC2/RYV with 616 just to have Spidey have a daughter who's almost an adult, it'd mess with everyone else's status quo too.



Whatever that was, unlikely to be followed up at this point, since Slott ain't the ASM writer anymore, and he quietly dropped this plot point in the same arc he introduced it, so uh, yeah...

I don't know. There are several characters from MC2 that already have a counterpart in Earth-616: Cassie Lang as Stinger, Jessica Drew's son (even if he's still a baby).... I think there were several more but I can't remember them.