Inmortal X-Men 5 preview Exodus Flashback

**HomoSuperior** · 07-26-2022, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Reigna

Well the reason not only you but most people feel that way about the pheonix is simply because that is exactly how Claremont designed it, there is an intense cosmic horror element to the pheonix saga that many dont pick up on. When some people call it a "parasite" they usually are joking but after close examination they are not goo far off, especially when you consider what it does to the charachters it bonds to.

Old enough to remember thinking, back in the day, Claremont often borrowed from other media. Dark Phoenix (1980) seemed a mashup of Exorcist (1973) & Somewhere in Time (1980). Magik (1983) was around the time of Poltergeist (1982). Still: good stuff.

**Reigna** · 07-26-2022, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Askani's Flame

By birth 100%

I always have maintained that even through "stripping" him of his power, he still was infected with Celestial tech/energies in order to keep him in suspended animation. The result is him gaining additional strength/power to his base which is a result Apocalypse did not foresee at the time. It's a gray area to this day on just what are his base powers and what have been augmented accidentally by his cryptosleep.

Oh how could I forget the baddest bitch to ever hold the force. She made it look soo good too. Mmmm what a woman hence why I like rachel soo much. The person to hold the force the longest. Made it her bitch too, had it under lock and key.

**Reigna** · 07-26-2022, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by HomoSuperior

Old enough to remember thinking, back in the day, Claremont often borrowed from other media. Dark Phoenix (1980) seemed a mashup of Exorcist (1973) & Somewhere in Time (1980). Magik (1983) was around the time of Poltergeist (1982). Still: good stuff.

Yeah those influences are strong. It's a saga in scope but a horror when you look at it from Jean's point of view. I mean they did try to twist it later, but a lady who only wanted to do good being possess by this godly force and then ultimately being corrupted by it is a stuff of nightmares. But as it was established earlier jean has very very dark desires like any other but unlike most jean would like to indulge those desires at least subconsciously. If they every adult the pheonix story again they should go the horror supernatural route, it will work wonders.

**HomoSuperior** · 07-26-2022, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Reigna

Yeah those influences are strong. It's a saga in scope but a horror when you look at it from Jean's point of view. I mean they did try to twist it later, but a lady who only wanted to do good being possess by this godly force and then ultimately being corrupted by it is a stuff of nightmares. But as it was established earlier jean has very very dark desires like any other but unlike most jean would like to indulge those desires at least subconsciously. If they every adult the pheonix story again they should go the horror supernatural route, it will work wonders.

I like your take on a future treatment. Most re-tellings (comics and movies) all focus on the moral risks of possessing ultimate power. But the original saga was about the trauma of being stalked as part of a conspiracy, losing one's mind, and eventually being possessed by a terrifying entity and harming others – effectively becoming powerless to prevent terrible things.

**Rev9** · 07-26-2022, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Mercury

I found this idea/fanfic very intriguing.

That is me reading Gillen's tea leaves ,my own fan fic is much different streamlining marvel cosmogenesis to reconcile Moira and the re-sets, the Phoenix and hosts,the First Fallen and especially Exodus being very central to this mythos with historical figures in tow.Thanks though

**Reigna** · 07-26-2022, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by HomoSuperior

I like your take on a future treatment. Most re-tellings (comics and movies) all focus on the moral risks of possessing ultimate power. But the original saga was about the trauma of being stalked as part of a conspiracy, losing one's mind, and eventually being possessed by a terrifying entity and harming others – effectively becoming powerless to prevent terrible things.

Exactly, she essentially changed as a person. The reason why the fix pheonix saga's fidnt work was simply because they didnt let Jean be a charachter prior to the telling of the story. She was just there. We dont get to spend time with her and not just her but her with her friends and her family, her with Scott. So when she gets corrupted ultimately no one with more a brain cell cares because why would we, we were only made to see logan and professor and Erik as the actual charachters. The rest were just horrified extras. Like imagine an extra getting possessed by pheonix, would you care? Nope it wont make a difference the plot will still remain the same. She is supposed to destroy all her bridges as dark pheonix do atrocious horrible ****, but ultimately despite all this the x-men still love her and will fight for her life. Because they are family. Then when the end of the arc comes either she dies or lives. But if she lives she is changed forever as a person the whole girl next door vibe will go and a woman will stand in her place. We nerd to feel loss, trauma, pain, horror and many more at jean losing essentially everything because of this force. That's why it was sooo popular and still is, because to most she was the weakest member of the xmen rarely showed any will of her own and was just an Google object for her male contemporaries. But Claremont made her selfless and powerful and ultimately tried to put her on a path to develop as a person. But alas dark pheonix happened and with what they had her do they had to kill her off.

**Mercury** · 07-26-2022, 01:36 PM

I thought it was established that this thread should be refocused on Exodus. However, since Jean continues to be brought up, let's clear up how Claremont, the actual writer of the Dark Phoenix Saga, views Jean's "very very dark desires." In an interview with Comics Feature #4 (1980) cited in Backissue #54 (2012), he made it clear that Jean thought she was having "visions in a 'bad dream'" in which she was living as and "'fascinated' by the evil perpetrated by her ancestor." In other words, she thought she was simultaneously living as and witnessing someone else. She was in a dissociative state, which is common to abuse and trauma victims but was also brought about by Jason Wyngarde's control of her. Claremont noted that Jean thought to herself, "I'm doing nasty things, but it's not real."

Soon after, in the X-Men Companion (1982), Claremont noted, "It was not that Phoenix was evil, it was just that Jean suddenly found herself sucked up into this Black Queen personality, this somewhat cruel, decadent trip." It's telling that Claremont uses the word "personality" rather than fantasy, which, again, suggests that Jean was in a state of dissociation. Even more telling is his description of her time-slip as a "somewhat cruel, decadent trip." But of course, what Wyngarde did to her—penetrating and filling her mind with illusions that initially shocked, frightened, and made her believe she was going crazy, not to mention kissing her against her will and physically (and sexually?) imposing himself on her—could certainly be described as "cruel" and "decadent."

Lastly, in the same interview cited above, Claremont doubled down on Jean being in a dissociative state, asserting that Jean was in a "dreamland" and suffered from "diminished capacity," noting, "She was not in conscious control of her actions. She was just overwhelmed. She was reacting, not acting—reacting to things within her. And so while she was rational, she was not sane." Then again, why would she be sane if she had just learned she had been stripped of her agency and autonomy and forced to be someone and do things both foreign and abhorrent to her all the while thinking she was in a "bad dream" and essentially against her will.

Then again, ignoring Claremont and Cockrum's original intentions for Jean as Phoenix, disregarding the abuse and trauma Jean was subjected to by Jason Wyngarde and the Hellfire Club, and attributing what the Black Queen stood for, including being an owner of slaves, solely to Jean's desires is undoubtedly intended to defame her, albeit subtly. Frankly, I find it disgusting that she is blamed for the illusions of a man who, in essence, psychically drugged and raped her against her will just because some people find the cosmic "chicken" or "STD" threatening to their own favorite character's power or deity/demi-deity status.

**Mercury** · 07-26-2022, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Rev9

That is me reading Gillen's tea leaves ,my own fan fic is much different streamlining marvel cosmogenesis to reconcile Moira and the re-sets, the Phoenix and hosts,the First Fallen and especially Exodus being very central to this mythos with historical figures in tow.Thanks though

If you don't mind providing a palette cleanser, I'd love to read more of your fanfic, especially as it pertains to Exodus.

**BroHomo** · 07-26-2022, 11:17 PM