Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 53
  1. #16
    Ultimate Member j9ac9k's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    11,983

    Default

    Batman's already the biggest anti-gun hero around, and he's DC's biggest hero by far. His trauma is a constant reminder to us all without having to get preachy about it. Having DC heroes try to affect legislation is a bad idea in-universe and out, unless it were just one storyline with an endpoint in mind. Actually changing DC earth (or America) would do that thing the main Marvel or DC universes avoid, which is making the world too different than our own. If they got rid of guns, then how would the comics address real world gun violence after that? Having Batman constantly reinforce his anti-gun stance in a world filled with guns makes more sense.

  2. #17
    Mighty Member InfamousBG's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Boston MA
    Posts
    1,668

    Default

    Now I dont want to get into politics in this thread but I am no fan of guns. Not at all.

    Guns in comics though? I am ok with that.

    I dont see DC fading out the use of guns in their universe anytime soon but in like 10-20 years I can see it.

    Now with Batman or Green Arrow they could bring up anti gun movements and fight for change in Gotham and Star City or whatever. I would actually love to see that. Really piss some "fans" off.

    Look at it this way...over in the Marvel Universe The Punisher is one of my favorite characters. Always has been for 40 years. I own every appearance in a comic with the Punisher in it (except Spiderman #129, I will have it someday in mint condition). Now The Punisher uses guns and kills people. In very brutal ways. I love it. Why you may ask? Because this is comics. This is fantasy. Anything can happen (with certain restrictions). Now I would love to see Marvel use The Punisher to piss off some "real fans" LOL and have him stop a Capitol attack, or fight right wing nut jobs or go after nazis in todays society. But all this talk of the Punisher should happen over in Frank's thread not here. I was just using Frank Castle as an example.

    You stop using guns in DC what happens to Peacemaker?!
    "Life is too short so love the one you got cause you might get run over or you might get shot" - Sublime

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,371

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyO'Brien View Post
    Since DC is doing a lot of pride and minority characters in the name of social justice why not major continuity changing storylines that phase guns out of American society?

    The stories could involve Bruce Wayne, Oliver and other characters of influence lobbying and succeeding to change gun laws and THAT part of the constitution.

    They could run up against various forms of opposition, both legal and illegal.

    New and Old characters could show up. Eg Prez as a antigun crusader, supernatural stories involving the ghosts of those who wrote the constitution etc. A new Milestone hero who deals with gun crimes involving minority groups and uses non lethal weapons to fight crime etc.

    Your ideas and views on this?
    Oh boy...

    First off, I fail to see the connection between DC promoting minority representation in its books (which, to some extent, is driven more by the need to appeal to new audience segments than any purely altruistic or political goal) and DC taking a stand (let alone an extreme one) on America's gun debate. Unless you assume that DC as a company is going to transform into some kind of broad left-wing advocacy group.

    In terms of the larger issue, I honestly don't think the superhero genre is the best place to tackle the issue of gun control. Because let's face it, superheroes are virtually the ''good guy with a gun'' that gun-rights activists like to talk about! Even if most superheroes don't literally carry a gun, their superpowers and/or specialized weaponry/equipment effectively serve the same function. Batman can't really be the face of a gun-control campaign and assault weapons ban when the Batmobile literally has machine guns on it! And can Green Arrow really quibble about gun ownership when he carries a lethal weapon himself - one which, in the hands of an expert like him, is almost as deadly as a gun?

    Personally, I think most superhero characters would be in favor of common-sense gun legislation and prioritizing public safety. But I don't see them having some kind of ideological commitment to disarming all American citizens.

    On a related note, Arrow tackled gun-control in an episode during its fifth season (while Oliver was mayor of Star City). The episode was decent enough, and covered a range of perspectives on the issue (Quentin Lance, the ex-cop, was pro-gun control because he wanted less guns on the street while Wild Dog was against it because he relied on guns to protect his family in the tough neighborhood that is the Glades). And in the end, the plot is resolved by Oliver passing common-sense gun legislation...which we learn nothing about! Because the writers of a TV show really don't know how to address an issue which policy-markers have grappled with for decades!

  4. #19
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Posts
    213

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyO'Brien View Post
    Since DC is doing a lot of pride and minority characters in the name of social justice why not major continuity changing storylines that phase guns out of American society?

    The stories could involve Bruce Wayne, Oliver and other characters of influence lobbying and succeeding to change gun laws and THAT part of the constitution.

    They could run up against various forms of opposition, both legal and illegal.

    New and Old characters could show up. Eg Prez as a antigun crusader, supernatural stories involving the ghosts of those who wrote the constitution etc. A new Milestone hero who deals with gun crimes involving minority groups and uses non lethal weapons to fight crime etc.

    Your ideas and views on this?
    With all due respect, please explain what possible good this would do outside of being a massive virtue-signal on the part of WBD/DC. Hardly anyone is reading comics anymore, so a "no-gun DCU" wouldn't rate much more than a few headlines and brief segments from the major outlets.

    Instead, how about using narratives like film and TV to get viewers asking questions about gun violence and violence in general?

  5. #20
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    12,545

    Default

    I'm for some sensible gun laws, namely closing loopholes to get around background checks and red flag laws. But I have no interest whatsoever in reading a story about it. Because the way these things work, ignoring the politics and assuming that you actually agree with the message, they're still just bad stories. I abhor message stories and morality plays where the writer is pushing agendas, even agendas I agree with. They're just such cringe stories. And they don't do anything - comic books aren't going to change minds. This is an issue that's going to play out in the real world, in highly divisive discussions, back and forth between the political parties. And comic books are at their best as escapism, I don't want to listen to all this gun stuff on news, look for a new Superman graphic novel or Batman trade, or a Justice League animated movie, and have to listen to more about the gun issue.

  6. #21
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    1,452

    Default

    John Constantine tears out THAT part of the constitution and lights up a smoke with it. "Loada bollocks innit?"

    The GL corps scope up all the gun shops like dog poop and throw them into the sun.

    Zatanna, spectre etc turn all the weapons at a gun show into toys and the dealer's into crying babies.

    President Wayne's major gun laws overhaul...

  7. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyO'Brien View Post
    Since DC is doing a lot of pride and minority characters in the name of social justice why not major continuity changing storylines that phase guns out of American society?

    The stories could involve Bruce Wayne, Oliver and other characters of influence lobbying and succeeding to change gun laws and THAT part of the constitution.

    They could run up against various forms of opposition, both legal and illegal.

    New and Old characters could show up. Eg Prez as a antigun crusader, supernatural stories involving the ghosts of those who wrote the constitution etc. A new Milestone hero who deals with gun crimes involving minority groups and uses non lethal weapons to fight crime etc.

    Your ideas and views on this?
    Could be sales suicide if it looked like DC as a company was taking a stand against the "right to bear arms" .......too much of a divisive issue in your country.

    Flip it around, would you buy DC comic books if the superheroes were advocating for carry and conceal laws, the overturning of Roe vs Waid, or a border wall. (Probably not)

    I'm all for having the odd left wing (Denny O Neil) or right wing (Frank Miller) crusader writing stories at DC, but I don't want to pick up a comic book and feel like I'm being preached to.....partially because comic book writers are also not the most intellectually informed individuals on political issues in the first place.

    I'm pro gun control.....but the problem with politics is that they are inherently divisive by nature, and it is why most businesses stay clear of it, because they have the potential of reducing your market share and profits.

  8. #23
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    1,452

    Default

    Phantom stranger, rip hunter, booster, waverider etc. See timelines without the second amendment. A better America where MLK and JFK ended the Vietnam war, Harvey milk smashed AIDS and a Beatles reunion. They also see futures with even more horrific shootings...

  9. #24
    Ultimate Member j9ac9k's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    11,983

    Default

    Wonder Woman lassos a human wishing stone, sings "Imagine" to the whole world, filling their hearts with peace and love causing everyone lays down their arms forever.

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    3,723

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by InfamousBG View Post
    Now I dont want to get into politics in this thread but I am no fan of guns. Not at all.

    Guns in comics though? I am ok with that.

    I dont see DC fading out the use of guns in their universe anytime soon but in like 10-20 years I can see it.

    Now with Batman or Green Arrow they could bring up anti gun movements and fight for change in Gotham and Star City or whatever. I would actually love to see that. Really piss some "fans" off.

    Look at it this way...over in the Marvel Universe The Punisher is one of my favorite characters. Always has been for 40 years. I own every appearance in a comic with the Punisher in it (except Spiderman #129, I will have it someday in mint condition). Now The Punisher uses guns and kills people. In very brutal ways. I love it. Why you may ask? Because this is comics. This is fantasy. Anything can happen (with certain restrictions). Now I would love to see Marvel use The Punisher to piss off some "real fans" LOL and have him stop a Capitol attack, or fight right wing nut jobs or go after nazis in todays society. But all this talk of the Punisher should happen over in Frank's thread not here. I was just using Frank Castle as an example.

    You stop using guns in DC what happens to Peacemaker?!
    The reason why they 'toned down' Punisher(according to the alleged 'real fans') has nothing to do with him using guns. It's because his logo/symbol got co-opted by by bad actors.

  11. #26
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,190

    Default

    Batman can talk all he wants about being anti-gun, but Batcave is a wet fantasy of every gun nut.

    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    In terms of the larger issue, I honestly don't think the superhero genre is the best place to tackle the issue of gun control. Because let's face it, superheroes are virtually the ''good guy with a gun'' that gun-rights activists like to talk about! Even if most superheroes don't literally carry a gun, their superpowers and/or specialized weaponry/equipment effectively serve the same function. Batman can't really be the face of a gun-control campaign and assault weapons ban when the Batmobile literally has machine guns on it! And can Green Arrow really quibble about gun ownership when he carries a lethal weapon himself - one which, in the hands of an expert like him, is almost as deadly as a gun?
    This is pretty much my opinion as well. I'd go even further and say that this is one of the reasons why superheroes struggle a bit these days, they are inherently right-wing (by the standards of today) and are written/drawn by mostly left-wing people.

    Thou I wouldn't mind if Green Arrow did something like that. Him being moronic hypocrite is very in-character, or at least it is so in my head-canon.

  12. #27
    Ultimate Member Robotman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,008

    Default

    I’m pretty anti-gun in real life but I don’t want to see them banned in comics, movies, tv, etc.
    Last edited by Robotman; 07-03-2022 at 10:30 PM.

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,320

    Default

    I want jason to have his guns

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,371

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nostalgia View Post
    Could be sales suicide if it looked like DC as a company was taking a stand against the "right to bear arms" .......too much of a divisive issue in your country.

    Flip it around, would you buy DC comic books if the superheroes were advocating for carry and conceal laws, the overturning of Roe vs Waid, or a border wall. (Probably not)

    I'm all for having the odd left wing (Denny O Neil) or right wing (Frank Miller) crusader writing stories at DC, but I don't want to pick up a comic book and feel like I'm being preached to.....partially because comic book writers are also not the most intellectually informed individuals on political issues in the first place.

    I'm pro gun control.....but the problem with politics is that they are inherently divisive by nature, and it is why most businesses stay clear of it, because they have the potential of reducing your market share and profits.
    Totally agree!

    I think comics (and pop-culture in general) can have political themes, and sometimes those themes can even lean in a particular direction...as long as it doesn't get into partisan politics and doesn't make the political messaging text rather than subtext.

    You mentioned Dennis O'Neil and Frank Miller, but look at how they incorporated politics into their storytelling.

    O'Neil for instance was the first writer to really lean into the idea of Bruce Wayne being a philanthropist and helping Gotham through social welfare initiatives rather than just punching people in the face. But it was an organic part of the story and consistent with Bruce Wayne's mission of wanting to end crime in Gotham. It wasn't as though O'Neil was going all ''Batman is left-wing now'' - he was just imbuing the universe with his more progressive notions of what causes crime and how to tackle it at its roots, in a way that made perfect sense for the character and in fact enriched him.

    Likewise, if we consider Frank Miller, at least when it comes to his earlier works, I think there is an element of right-wing vigilante fantasy to Batman in DKR. But Batman isn't some caricatured right-wing fanatic. Quiet the contrary - he actually goes up (ideologically anyway) against Ronald Reagan! What Miller focuses on are themes of individual liberty, grit and determination against the corruption and decay of the state which may be core conservative values to some, but are also universal values to many others.

    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Batman can talk all he wants about being anti-gun, but Batcave is a wet fantasy of every gun nut.



    This is pretty much my opinion as well. I'd go even further and say that this is one of the reasons why superheroes struggle a bit these days, they are inherently right-wing (by the standards of today) and are written/drawn by mostly left-wing people.

    Thou I wouldn't mind if Green Arrow did something like that. Him being moronic hypocrite is very in-character, or at least it is so in my head-canon.
    That's an interesting thought!

    On a (perhaps) unrelated note, its occurred to me over the last several years how the superhero genre, at least on the big-screen (and even the small screen) has pivoted away from a focus on crime-fighting. The MCU is the biggest example of this - virtually none of the major heroes are engaged in fighting crime per se, with the exception of Spider-Man (and we barely see him do a lot of crime-fighting...the last movie was all multiversal fun and rehabilitating the super-villains from other worlds). Most of the antagonists these days are aliens or powerful entities who can destroy the world, and a lot of the conflicts are more personal than anything else.

    Batman is one big exception to this trend as a franchise of course. Though one can argue that even The Batman ends with Batman realizing that his crime-fighting perhaps isn't as important as being a symbol of hope for Gotham (and his closest ally in the film is Selina Kyle who is an unapologetic criminal, however sympathetic).

  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,190

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    On a (perhaps) unrelated note, its occurred to me over the last several years how the superhero genre, at least on the big-screen (and even the small screen) has pivoted away from a focus on crime-fighting. The MCU is the biggest example of this - virtually none of the major heroes are engaged in fighting crime per se, with the exception of Spider-Man (and we barely see him do a lot of crime-fighting...the last movie was all multiversal fun and rehabilitating the super-villains from other worlds). Most of the antagonists these days are aliens or powerful entities who can destroy the world, and a lot of the conflicts are more personal than anything else.

    Batman is one big exception to this trend as a franchise of course. Though one can argue that even The Batman ends with Batman realizing that his crime-fighting perhaps isn't as important as being a symbol of hope for Gotham (and his closest ally in the film is Selina Kyle who is an unapologetic criminal, however sympathetic).
    I guess supporting casts getting less focus and superhero comics in general featuring less and less regular people is part of this trend as well.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •