How about : a permanent anti-gun DCU?

[bat39]

I guess supporting casts getting less focus and superhero comics in general featuring less and less regular people is part of this trend as well.

Very likely. It takes us away from the street-level focus that all superhero comics used to have at one point. When you no longer have too many ''normal'' people around, the lives and concerns of normal people, and their world, cease to be a focus in the plot.

But I can't but help feel there is a political aspect to it as well. Over the past decade, there has been a certain growing permissiveness towards crime in the US, and elsewhere in the Western world, and that's reflected in the media as well. I seem to recall an interview by a DC writer (a pretty major one, but don't remember who) where he talks about doing a Batman story where Batman doesn't throw a punch because ''we can't afford these values in the age of Trump''.

On the CW's The Flash, talking criminals down rather than taking them down by force virtually became a meme. And there's an episode in Season 7 where Barry, after convincing a bank robber (who's criminal plot almost caused multiple casualties) to surrender, offers to talk to the governor to commute her sentence and get her a job in the governor's office!

Let's not forget that moment in Zack Snyder's Justice League, where Vic, after becoming Cyborg, briefly considers using his powers to pull off a Robin Hood act and transfer money from a bank to a woman he runs into on the street.

[John Venus]

Desperation is the root of most crimes and superhero comics are just now contending with the notion.

Affordable housing, better and more robust social safety nets, better education, better healthcare, smaller wealth gaps, all go a long way towards preventing crime. Would there still be people who are a threat to others and who do bad things despite all of it this, yes, but overall the net positives outweigh the bad.

Flash stopping bank robberies is cool. Flash making sure the person ends up in a position where they never have to resort to committing crimes in the first place is even cooler.

[Kirk Brent]

Could be sales suicide if it looked like DC as a company was taking a stand against the "right to bear arms" .......too much of a divisive issue in your country.

Flip it around, would you buy DC comic books if the superheroes were advocating for carry and conceal laws, the overturning of Roe vs Waid, or a border wall. (Probably not)

I'm all for having the odd left wing (Denny O Neil) or right wing (Frank Miller) crusader writing stories at DC, but I don't want to pick up a comic book and feel like I'm being preached to.....partially because comic book writers are also not the most intellectually informed individuals on political issues in the first place.

I'm pro gun control.....but the problem with politics is that they are inherently divisive by nature, and it is why most businesses stay clear of it, because they have the potential of reducing your market share and profits.

You said it better than I did. I agree one hundred percent.

[HsssH]

Desperation is the root of most crimes

It might be the root, but it is not a justification. I don't mind Flash (or Barry in his public identity) working to improve his community or taking down politician that was taking bribes from big business or something similar. But if someone actually tries to rob a bank then no, that just sends the wrong message.

[bat39]

Desperation is the root of most crimes and superhero comics are just now contending with the notion.

Affordable housing, better and more robust social safety nets, better education, better healthcare, smaller wealth gaps, all go a long way towards preventing crime. Would there still be people who are a threat to others and who do bad things despite all of it this, yes, but overall the net positives outweigh the bad.

Flash stopping bank robberies is cool. Flash making sure the person ends up in a position where they never have to resort to committing crimes in the first place is even cooler.

In general, I agree with you. Again, as I mentioned on a previous post in this thread, Dennis O'Neil absolutely had the right idea focusing on Bruce Wayne's philanthropy.

It comes down to execution though. It's one thing for a superhero story to acknowledge some of the deeper causes of crime and offer solutions beyond the obvious ones of stopping/punishing crimes. It's quiet another for a superhero story to implicitly (or explicitly) justify crime.

And let's not forget that ultimately superhero stories aren't about addressing the sociological and economic factors that lead to crime (though those can add rich texture to the stories). They're ultimately about the heroes using their physical, mental and technological skills/resources to solve/prevent/thwart crimes.

It might be the root, but it is not a justification. I don't mind Flash (or Barry in his public identity) working to improve his community or taking down politician that was taking bribes from big business or something similar. But if someone actually tries to rob a bank then no, that just sends the wrong message.

Agreed.

Interestingly, Batwoman, for all that it got slammed for being a ''woke'' show, addressed this issue in a rather mature way in Season 2. There's an episode where this character spouts some Defund the Police/All Cops Are Bad rhetoric, and Ryan shuts it down by saying that law enforcement (which in that debate also includes Batwoman) and investment in the community are both needed to fix Gotham.

[HsssH]

Most people who said that Batwoman was woke probably never watched a single episode.

[j9ac9k]

Desperation is the root of most crimes and superhero comics are just now contending with the notion.

That's because superhero comics are usually melodramas about "good v evil" rather than just "stopping crime."

[Zero Hunter]

Phantom stranger, rip hunter, booster, waverider etc. See timelines without the second amendment. A better America where MLK and JFK ended the Vietnam war, Harvey milk smashed AIDS and a Beatles reunion. They also see futures with even more horrific shootings...

I can tell you naive because you keep bringing up John Lennon like he was not a total piece of shit.

[James Cameron]

Most people who said that Batwoman was woke probably never watched a single episode.

Wokeness is good and virtue signaling is bad. Wokeness is genuine awareness and discussion of social issues, virtue signaling is what you get when a corporation lacks self awareness, by using social issues as brownie points with viewers to try and appeal to everyone.

[king81992]

Most people who said that Batwoman was woke probably never watched a single episode.

The story of most people who scream and complain that anything is woke. They either never watched/read the thing they're complaining about or watched/read it and got triggered it didn't validate or reaffirm their worldview.

[achilles]

Most people who said that Batwoman was woke probably never watched a single episode.

The ones who said it was very, very bad probably did. For the OP, IMO, it should never happen. I want writers concentrating on writing a good story rather than pushing a political position, I don't care what. It can be done, but the writer has to be at the top of their game, but even then a good political story rarely happens. And today's writers are nowhere near the level of an O'Neill in his prime, or Miller in his before he started repeating himself with much less quality.

[Jackalope89]

I want jason to have his guns

Better than the crowbar, that's for sure. Could do a little retconning of the All-Blades and make them his primary. Or just give him back his UTRH knife, at least. All of it is better than the crowbar.

As for guns in real life; I don't hate them. But there does need to be some common sense gun laws.

For comics; no. Its fantasy, keep them in, and use them where they fit (like, don't randomly give Circe an AK-47).

[Agent Z]

Totally agree!

I think comics (and pop-culture in general) can have political themes, and sometimes those themes can even lean in a particular direction...as long as it doesn't get into partisan politics and doesn't make the political messaging text rather than subtext.

You mentioned Dennis O'Neil and Frank Miller, but look at how they incorporated politics into their storytelling.

O'Neil for instance was the first writer to really lean into the idea of Bruce Wayne being a philanthropist and helping Gotham through social welfare initiatives rather than just punching people in the face. But it was an organic part of the story and consistent with Bruce Wayne's mission of wanting to end crime in Gotham. It wasn't as though O'Neil was going all ''Batman is left-wing now'' - he was just imbuing the universe with his more progressive notions of what causes crime and how to tackle it at its roots, in a way that made perfect sense for the character and in fact enriched him.

Likewise, if we consider Frank Miller, at least when it comes to his earlier works, I think there is an element of right-wing vigilante fantasy to Batman in DKR. But Batman isn't some caricatured right-wing fanatic. Quiet the contrary - he actually goes up (ideologically anyway) against Ronald Reagan! What Miller focuses on are themes of individual liberty, grit and determination against the corruption and decay of the state which may be core conservative values to some, but are also universal values to many others.



That's an interesting thought!

On a (perhaps) unrelated note, its occurred to me over the last several years how the superhero genre, at least on the big-screen (and even the small screen) has pivoted away from a focus on crime-fighting. The MCU is the biggest example of this - virtually none of the major heroes are engaged in fighting crime per se, with the exception of Spider-Man (and we barely see him do a lot of crime-fighting...the last movie was all multiversal fun and rehabilitating the super-villains from other worlds). Most of the antagonists these days are aliens or powerful entities who can destroy the world, and a lot of the conflicts are more personal than anything else.

Batman is one big exception to this trend as a franchise of course. Though one can argue that even The Batman ends with Batman realizing that his crime-fighting perhaps isn't as important as being a symbol of hope for Gotham (and his closest ally in the film is Selina Kyle who is an unapologetic criminal, however sympathetic).

I'd say attempted mass murder counts as a crime. And even then, the type of threats you're talking about don't describe the majority of the MCU. It's mostly just the Avengers movies.

[Agent Z]

I guess supporting casts getting less focus and superhero comics in general featuring less and less regular people is part of this trend as well.

The same supporting casts fans keep calling to be ignored or killed off anytime the story focuses on something other than fighting villains? Just look at the reaction to the so called melodrama of the second season in the Superman & Lois thread.

[Agent Z]

Most people who said that Batwoman was woke probably never watched a single episode.

Most people who accuse anything of being woke don't actually watch or read the media in question.