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  1. #16
    Still only crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    When was the last time you saw this many miniseries, spinoffs, graphic novels and expanded content for Diana and her world? Obviously, they could have done more but they have done far less than what we have now.
    They should have had no problem getting an animated series started after the success of her first movie.

    As far as spinoffs or miniseries, unless they are specifically Diana centric, then that doesn't usually interest me. Maybe, before they lost my interest in buying monthlys or even comics altogether, I might have picked up these comics, but only the trade paperbacks that do interest me get my money.

    I am very selective on my money being spent since if I just blindly give to any comic that has a Wonder Woman character in it would be just telling DC comics that they can push out any junk and the masses will buy. We need them to put out a better product! As it is, for all the fanfare that Trial of the Amazons got, and new series like Nubia, they have ranked very low on the selling list. The only one that has garnered good support is Wonder Woman Hystoria. The rest, if I am remembering correctly are out of the top 100, including Wonder Woman herself, or just barely under 100. That does not point to great numbers or success on the newest spinoffs or miniseries, no matter how much some people on this board might like them. The masses don't seem to be on point with many that grace this board.

    I wish the impact from WW2017 was an animated series first. That would have been very telling to me if they had tried this first, especially with the movies success. DC comics should have exploited this success with another monthly as well as give her a push within the main DC universe. Did they do this? Of course not, and when there was a push with more spinoffs and miniseries, we got this after the disaster known as WW84. Great timing DC!

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Positive impacts:
    • Costume
    • Emphasis on the lasso
    • Depiction of the Amazons
    • Centering a relationship with Steve Trevor
    • Creating a competent and heroic Steve Trevor

    What it lacked:
    • An origin where Diana is brought to life by the goddesses and Hermes and is not a child of Zeus.
    • Amazons with technological advances.
    • No centering of Etta Candy as Diana’s good friend.

    I’ve enjoyed Patty’s stories, but it’s just not what I would do. And that’s not a judgement. I’m good with stepping into creators’ visions of the character and her world.

    Barbara Minerva is a real toss up for me characterization-wise since Rucka’s origin in the DCnU. I have a deep appreciation for Perez’s Barbara Minerva and her ruthless and pain in what she had become versus the friend becomes enemy version from DCnU and the movie. I see positives in both depictions. Some of that also being the potential Perez’s Barbara Minerva had, but was never really realized. (Also, minus the racist depiction Chuma.)

  3. #18
    Still only crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    Positive impacts:
    • Costume
    • Emphasis on the lasso
    • Depiction of the Amazons
    • Centering a relationship with Steve Trevor
    • Creating a competent and heroic Steve Trevor

    What it lacked:
    • An origin where Diana is brought to life by the goddesses and Hermes and is not a child of Zeus.
    • Amazons with technological advances.
    • No centering of Etta Candy as Diana’s good friend.

    I’ve enjoyed Patty’s stories, but it’s just not what I would do. And that’s not a judgement. I’m good with stepping into creators’ visions of the character and her world.

    Barbara Minerva is a real toss up for me characterization-wise since Rucka’s origin in the DCnU. I have a deep appreciation for Perez’s Barbara Minerva and her ruthless and pain in what she had become versus the friend becomes enemy version from DCnU and the movie. I see positives in both depictions. Some of that also being the potential Perez’s Barbara Minerva had, but was never really realized. (Also, minus the racist depiction Chuma.)
    The costume from the movie never impressed me. From the first appearance in BvS, the colors were very muted, not vibrant. Also, having wedges or any type of heel defeats the purpose of many people criticizing that she doesn't wear clothing suitable for a warrior.

    It also lacked the Greek Gods, who we are told in passing that they are all dead, except of course for Ares. That definitely limits some of the potential story arcs for her, especially if her family is the greek gods.

    I liked the depiction of the Amazons, but a couple of thousand years later and they were no more advanced than when they started out.

    With Patty, she did a good job on the first movie, but the second was all hers, in writing and directing, so if we get this combo again, I don't think we will get the sendoff that most of us want. She may have had input on the first movie and some of her suggestions were used, but then it was all hers in the 2nd and I think the majority of fans were disappointed to say in the least!

    I hope the 3rd movie gives her a big sendoff, gives her foes that she can have big, destructive battles only because she has been lacking in this department. Don't give the Cheetah another chance because they blew it with her the first time. Let a reboot happen and then introduce the real Barbara Minerva, ala Perez and not the variant we got.
    Last edited by BiteTheBullet; 07-06-2022 at 10:36 AM.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    If you believe there's no such thing as bad press, then Gal/Patty were unequivocally good for WW. More in the public consciousness, more content in other media, and the concept of WW is least more defined to the random person as opposed to a nebulous concept of a warrior princess in a bathing suit.

    Now, chances are you do believe there's such thing as bad press, so you're not going to like all of the ideas propagated, and I'm with you on that. Still, for most people, the impact of the movies are overwhelmingly good.

  5. #20
    Incredible Member HestiasHearth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiteTheBullet View Post

    With Patty, she did a good job on the first movie, but the second was all hers, in writing and directing, so if we get this combo again, I don't think we will get the sendoff that most of us want. She may have had input on the first movie and some of her suggestions were used, but then it was all hers in the 2nd and I think the majority of fans were disappointed to say in the least!

    I hope the 3rd movie gives her a big sendoff, gives her foes that she can have big, destructive battles only because she has been lacking in this department. Don't give the Cheetah another chance because they blew it with her the first time. Let a reboot happen and then introduce the real Barbara Minerva, ala Perez and not the variant we got.
    As much as the internet loves to demonize studio execs "meddling," I feel that not all instances of the suits having input in a movie is bad. I actually hope that WBD watches the development of WW3 closely and carefully monitors what is included in the process. It is important that they (in tandem with Patty) analyze what worked for the first film and what DID NOT work for the second. I have faith that if they bring back Heinberg and let Patty work within the same balanced narrative/emotional framework that informed the first film, they can work wonders (pun intended). Big destructive battles will be easy to concoct if the film has Circe unleashing her bestiamorphs and an assortment of mythological monsters on the amazon army, and if Diana gets to have one-on-one battles with, say, harpies, a minotaur, or the Echidna.

  6. #21
    Still only crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HestiasHearth View Post
    As much as the internet loves to demonize studio execs "meddling," I feel that not all instances of the suits having input in a movie is bad. I actually hope that WBD watches the development of WW3 closely and carefully monitors what is included in the process. It is important that they (in tandem with Patty) analyze what worked for the first film and what DID NOT work for the second. I have faith that if they bring back Heinberg and let Patty work within the same balanced narrative/emotional framework that informed the first film, they can work wonders (pun intended). Big destructive battles will be easy to concoct if the film has Circe unleashing her bestiamorphs and an assortment of mythological monsters on the amazon army, and if Diana gets to have one-on-one battles with, say, harpies, a minotaur, or the Echidna.
    I agree with most of what you say. The one thing that didn't work that well in the 1st movie was the 3rd act with the fight with Ares. Most are in agreement that the movie was good to excellent with the 3rd act not quite sustaining the momentum the first two acts gave us.

    Also, I hope they revive the Greek Gods in a convincing manner!
    Last edited by BiteTheBullet; 07-06-2022 at 04:57 PM. Reason: spelling

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiteTheBullet View Post
    It had impact, but then again where was the animated series, at a minimum, upon the success of the first movie? Where is the second monthly comic set in the DC Universe that is an ongoing title which features Wonder Woman exclusively (I am not talking about anthology monthlies)? The people in animation and in the comic industry don't seem to see this same impact that others do.
    This isn't the 90s/00s, I don't think action cartoons are all that popular anymore outside of anime. We're currently in the age of "adult" animation and wacky calarts toons. I guess you could count her being the main character of Super Hero Girls (I don't watch this so i'm only assuming.)
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    No. DCEU WW has been a very underwhelming take on the character. They have her as a glorified spider man level character, her lore so far is still very badly represented. What they did with Cheetah is just terrible.
    I can't disagree with this take

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    This isn't the 90s/00s, I don't think action cartoons are all that popular anymore outside of anime. We're currently in the age of "adult" animation and wacky calarts toons. I guess you could count her being the main character of Super Hero Girls (I don't watch this so i'm only assuming.)
    They're not unpopular. They're just not seen as worth the investment. With WB/CN it was due to a management change in the mid 00's that lead to them sabotaging shows like YJ during it's initial run so they could focus on more kiddy entertainment. I agree that we basically have two extremes now; the adult humor shows and the really kiddy stuff both have cheap ass animation though.

    Animation is also more costly and time consuming. It will be less time consuming and less costly to put someone on a horse and film it then pay a whole animation team to draw someone riding a horse 1000 times.

    Netflix's Arcane seems to be doing well though. Nickelodeon's Avatar Studios have announced 3 new movies recently. We'll see if those shows can bring in some quality animation. I'm sick of the cheap animation 3D animation we've gotten recently. 'What If' was the worst and YJ didn't fare much better either.

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  10. #25
    Mighty Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    I can't disagree with this take
    Thanks.

    DCEU WW had positive impact in portraying her as warm, brave and charmimg. And the Amazon Island was more or less well represented outside of not giving them technology. But everything else is underwhelming. Her power level. The sword and shield present so much in 3 out of 4 films. Her original villains and supporting cast still giving too little screen time. The way they treated Cheetah. So far. WW is in a better place than before her 2017 film. But that isn't saying much. The movie did some good, but not enough to overlook all the shortcomings of the DCEU version as a whole.

  11. #26
    Spectacular Member bardkeep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    This isn't the 90s/00s, I don't think action cartoons are all that popular anymore outside of anime. We're currently in the age of "adult" animation and wacky calarts toons. I guess you could count her being the main character of Super Hero Girls (I don't watch this so i'm only assuming.)
    I don't think this is necessarily true, but it's DEFINITELY true that we don't see shows like JL/JLU or BTAS/STAS anymore. You still get great, YA-focused animated action-adventure series, but they're never based in reality in the way that the Bruce Timm shows were. Fortunately WW is a fantasy hero and exploiting that provides a lot more creative opportunity. I suspect it's why the original idea for a WW animated series failed and became the JSA movie instead - setting her in World War II is ridiculously limiting, and focusing more on the Amazons and her fantasy/myth elements has infinitely more narrative potential.

    (Sidenote, I'm pretty sure this is also why WW is the first non-Bat DC hero to get a video game - it looks like it's going to be set primarily in Themyscira, and there's already a strong blueprint for open-world fantasy games where you fight mythological monsters and gods. Creating a Metropolis that doesn't feel tiny and coming up with convincing enemies in an open-world Superman game is reinventing the wheel by comparison).

    The ideal would probably be something like Arcane, Dragon Prince, or Avatar that's more serious and focused on world-building with a really detailed art style (whether it's 2D, 3D, or a mix of the 2), but I'd also love a WW series closer to the style of something like Netflix's She-Ra or Kipo and the Age of Wonderbeasts. A show that's colorful, cartoonish, proudly gay, and occasionally silly but is still epic in scale and features great characters, rich lore, and powerful emotional storytelling. It'd probably be a controversial approach with fans but if it were even half as good as She-Ra I think people would quickly change their tune.

    If WW3 is more fantasy-based and gets good reception, I could see it informing the general creative direction of a successful animated series. Especially if they focus on the Amazons.

  12. #27
    Still only crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardkeep View Post
    I don't think this is necessarily true, but it's DEFINITELY true that we don't see shows like JL/JLU or BTAS/STAS anymore. You still get great, YA-focused animated action-adventure series, but they're never based in reality in the way that the Bruce Timm shows were. Fortunately WW is a fantasy hero and exploiting that provides a lot more creative opportunity. I suspect it's why the original idea for a WW animated series failed and became the JSA movie instead - setting her in World War II is ridiculously limiting, and focusing more on the Amazons and her fantasy/myth elements has infinitely more narrative potential.

    (Sidenote, I'm pretty sure this is also why WW is the first non-Bat DC hero to get a video game - it looks like it's going to be set primarily in Themyscira, and there's already a strong blueprint for open-world fantasy games where you fight mythological monsters and gods. Creating a Metropolis that doesn't feel tiny and coming up with convincing enemies in an open-world Superman game is reinventing the wheel by comparison).

    The ideal would probably be something like Arcane, Dragon Prince, or Avatar that's more serious and focused on world-building with a really detailed art style (whether it's 2D, 3D, or a mix of the 2), but I'd also love a WW series closer to the style of something like Netflix's She-Ra or Kipo and the Age of Wonderbeasts. A show that's colorful, cartoonish, proudly gay, and occasionally silly but is still epic in scale and features great characters, rich lore, and powerful emotional storytelling. It'd probably be a controversial approach with fans but if it were even half as good as She-Ra I think people would quickly change their tune.

    If WW3 is more fantasy-based and gets good reception, I could see it informing the general creative direction of a successful animated series. Especially if they focus on the Amazons.
    Batman typically leaping 20 feet at a time and dodging gunfire as often he did is realistic to you? That is something that absolutely irritated me with Bruce Timm and his Batgod interpretation.

  13. #28
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    2 questions.

    In Wonder Woman 2017 when Diana destroyed Ares projectiles at the end of the movie, did she have telekinesis or a force field?

    In WW84, was Diana able to create illusions or make anything invisible?

  14. #29
    Still only crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zahina View Post
    2 questions.

    In Wonder Woman 2017 when Diana destroyed Ares projectiles at the end of the movie, did she have telekinesis or a force field?

    In WW84, was Diana able to create illusions or make anything invisible?
    More unexplained powers that she hasn't used in subsequent films. Same goes with her being able to fly, yet not fly in later era films.

  15. #30
    Spectacular Member bardkeep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiteTheBullet View Post
    Batman typically leaping 20 feet at a time and dodging gunfire as often he did is realistic to you? That is something that absolutely irritated me with Bruce Timm and his Batgod interpretation.
    That's not what I meant, I meant "reality" in a very literal sense. Like, its world mostly resembles our own. Obviously the animated shows aren't REALISTIC in any sense of the word, but the setting isn't a constructed fantasy world like the Avatar shows or even a complete cartoonish distortion of our world like Steven Universe.

    And to bring it back to the original premise, my point is that "building" Gotham or Metropolis comes with a lot more rules than "building" Themyscira or Olympus, even if you're as unrealistic and outlandish as possible.

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